National Revolutions 1821-1848

[husserlTW]

Unfortunately not.

[Sotericus]

Hi guys,

Just a quick note before uploading some new pictures. It's a pity we cannot do such an event as to unite Ro.
However, I managed to add Romanian names (gave to Wallachia in faction tables the pirates names and then I modified in localisation. loc the pirates names. It will be pretty weird, as I might have mismatched some family names with forenames, otherwise it seems cool . I really want to add a intro movie to the campaign, but last time I tried it didn't work. Do you have any ideas how to do it? Thanks, and keep close

Cheers,

S.

[RO Citizen]

I guess scripting it's hard even for an experienced modder, so I don't think it will happen soon. Of course, Sotericus could ask TopHat for help, he's the High Emperor of Scripting and whatever

[husserlTW]

Hi guys,

Just a quick note before uploading some new pictures. It's a pity we cannot do such an event as to unite Ro.
However, I managed to add Romanian names (gave to Wallachia in faction tables the pirates names and then I modified in localisation. loc the pirates names. It will be pretty weird, as I might have mismatched some family names with forenames, otherwise it seems cool . I really want to add a intro movie to the campaign, but last time I tried it didn't work. Do you have any ideas how to do it? Thanks, and keep close

Cheers,

S.

I think it will be the only way to add the names (using another faction) because still no luck with adding a new name group (it still CTDs). It is easy to have forenames and surnames in the right order if you check the names table in db.

I guess scripting it's hard even for an experienced modder, so I don't think it will happen soon. Of course, Sotericus could ask TopHat for help, he's the High Emperor of Scripting and whatever

It cannot be done.

[Sotericus]

This mod is looking better and better!

By looking at your pictures i can see that the units have the Romanian flag. But at the start of the game there was only Wallachia and Moldova as separate states. Is it possible to make a script to unify the states and change the flags and the name of the faction? Same questions goes for German and Italian unification.

The flag issue for Wallachia is quite controversial. I gave it quite a thought. First I thought of changing the flag with the Wallachian one before 1830 or the Flag of the Uprising (see the 4th and 5th flags on the page http://flagspot.net/flags/ro-wall.html). Let alone the fact that it's quite painstaking changing a flag (you have to rescale, to change the entries in startpos and prepare for some initial crashes , before getting things right), except the site mentioned above I didn't find any reliable source with a good quality picture of one of the flags I wanted. Then, I thought that the vanilla flag resembles a lot to the first flag of the 1848 revolution (http://flagspot.net/flags/ro-wal48.html) and it's worth keeping it. However the question is quite interesting if you think what ensign would Vladimirescu use as a national flag if the revolution won? It would be an interesting discussion topic. However, for the next release we might try to have the original flag of the uprising.

[Sotericus]

I think it will be the only way to add the names (using another faction) because still no luck with adding a new name group (it still CTDs). It is easy to have forenames and surnames in the right order if you check the names table in db.



It cannot be done.

Right you are. But for this you have to be sure whether, for instance, 'Scott' is a forename or a surname . On the other hand, if it's impossible to have an event of that scale, would it still be possible to add something like a 'historical event' that makes only a pop-up window with a text and a picture?

It would be nice to have something like that either, as you reach a year, or as you have conquered a province. Unfortunately that would suppose doing some scripting and I am completely lost with regards to this issue. Do you have any ideas about a thread on this?

Cheers,

S.

[husserlTW]

In names_table, names are separated in forenames m and f (male and female) and surnames b (for both).

We can add messages for assigning and completing missions and in certain turns replacing vanilla events.

[Sotericus]

In names_table, names are separated in forenames m and f (male and female) and surnames b (for both).

We can add messages for assigning and completing missions and in certain turns replacing vanilla events.

Right ! Name tables... I have forgotten about that. Now everything is all right. However I've been messing around a bit with the events (extracted the events table, added it to the mod, then changed the date for one of the events and also added the exporthistoricevents.lua, made the same change there and nothing). I am pretty sure that I'm doing something wrong, though I don't have the slightest idea.

[husserlTW]

You just take care of the texts and the dates I'll do the rest. Also missions must be decided if you are going to use any. I think missions must be planned by faction. Have in mind that that they have a meaning for the player only. AI will not follow them except a faction join another.

I can make easily any flag you like, there is not need to do all these changes you say and it will not cause any CTD. Just upload (or link) to any image of the flag you like, and the faction you want to.

[Thiky83]

A little commemoration the 15 March from the eruption of 1848-49 Hungarian Revolution.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyZinkKv2dU
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungari...lution_of_1848
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12_poin...naries_of_1848

[Sotericus]

You just take care of the texts and the dates I'll do the rest. Also missions must be decided if you are going to use any. I think missions must be planned by faction. Have in mind that that they have a meaning for the player only. AI will not follow them except a faction join another.

I can make easily any flag you like, there is not need to do all these changes you say and it will not cause any CTD. Just upload (or link) to any image of the flag you like, and the faction you want to.

A huge "thank you" for your help, Husserl . This way the mod will gain a lot of in depth and feeling. One thing I was desperately missing in nappy was the feeling of achievement or of interacting with the AI that was so nicely done in Victoria. Even if the events would be very simple or without any substantial effects, the idea is to have something marking the player's evolution in the game.

I'll think about some missions and some texts and I'll send them to you in a PM later this week (more probably this week end). As for the flags I'll do it tomorrow. If anybody out there has an idea about a historically accurate flag for Wallachia, and, this woul be really awsome, a nice flag of the 1821 uprising please post it here.

Cheers,

S.

[Sotericus]

A little commemoration the 15 March from the eruption of 1848-49 Hungarian Revolution.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyZinkKv2dU
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungari...lution_of_1848
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12_poin...naries_of_1848

Nice info, Thiky. It will be really awesome if some Hungarian friends would help us in developing the Hungarian faction in this mod. The same goes for Serbian, Polish, Germans, Italians and Czechs. Maybe it sounds quite Utopian but we could really start planing for an international team dedicated to the 'age of revolutions'. It was, after all an European moment and though national memories sometimes separate us, history unites us after all.

[Wallachian]

Nice info, Thiky. It will be really awesome if some Hungarian friends would help us in developing the Hungarian faction in this mod. The same goes for Serbian, Polish, Germans, Italians and Czechs. Maybe it sounds quite Utopian but we could really start planing for an international team dedicated to the 'age of revolutions'. It was, after all an European moment and though national memories sometimes separate us, history unites us after all.

Yes, that would be indeed great. Some Hungarian honved units are a must for 1848. Also, from my knowledge Serbia was pretty much out of the Ottoman sphere since the 1817 revolutions. To be truly great this mod definetly needs some uniforms for these factions. At least some historical rosters should be created and rename some vanilla units that look remotely simillar, just get a feel of the time. Damn, i can just imagine all these revolutions French revoluions in 1830 and 1848, Greek revolution in 1821, the Carbonari rebellion and the 1848 revolutions in Italy! Damnn, the smell of gunpoweder is in the air

You'll have a bit of a giggle at this but here's the revolutionary flag of Tudor Vladimirescu

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Would not suggest using it though. Here's a better proposition, this is the civil ensign of the Principality of Wallachia in 1834

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

And here's the one for Moldova also in 1834

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Problem is that the war ensigns in the same period are a bit different. Basically when going to war the ensign would change. For example the military ensign of Wallachia in 1834 was this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Given the similarity between this flag and the later flag of the 1848 Wallachian revolution and also the flag of Romania I would suggest using this one. It has the Wallachian eagle on it which represents the traditional element in the flag, but it also has the tri-colour.

Another idea: is it possible to start the game in the middle of a revolution?

[Sotericus]

Yes, that would be indeed great. Some Hungarian honved units are a must for 1848. Also, from my knowledge Serbia was pretty much out of the Ottoman sphere since the 1817 revolutions. To be truly great this mod definetly needs some uniforms for these factions. At least some historical rosters should be created and rename some vanilla units that look remotely simillar, just get a feel of the time. Damn, i can just imagine all these revolutions French revoluions in 1830 and 1848, Greek revolution in 1821, the Carbonari rebellion and the 1848 revolutions in Italy! Damnn, the smell of gunpoweder is in the air

You'll have a bit of a giggle at this but here's the revolutionary flag of Tudor Vladimirescu

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Would not suggest using it though. Here's a better proposition, this is the civil ensign of the Principality of Wallachia in 1834

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

And here's the one for Moldova also in 1834

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Problem is that the war ensigns in the same period are a bit different. Basically when going to war the ensign would change. For example the military ensign of Wallachia in 1834 was this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Given the similarity between this flag and the later flag of the 1848 Wallachian revolution and also the flag of Romania I would suggest using this one. It has the Wallachian eagle on it which represents the traditional element in the flag, but it also has the tri-colour.

Another idea: is it possible to start the game in the middle of a revolution?

Good work, Wallachian. It is a good idea and I'll try finding a clearer picture of the Wallachian 1834 flag. As for Moldavia, we'll use that one.

The Uprising Flag is a bit odd, but I think it was a nice way of creatively using the relgious discourse and turning it in legitimating a progressive and emancipatory movement. It was thus assuring people (for which religion at that time was a central referent) that they had a divine mandate and a superior law was justifying their actions (these kind of utterances could be traced in Tudor's proclamation of Pades, but, oddly enough, in the US revolution also).

As for starting the game in the middle of the revolution, I think it is possible. It would mean to change the relations with the Ottomans to "war", to move Ottoman troops in Wallachian territory and create a small revolutionary army. Almost all of this can be done by hybrid-ing startpos. However, I'm not sure whether the game later on will be easy to play, as you would need money for the troops and so on. But I'll think about it.

As for the international part I'll try contacting some people and see if we can manage to add some new factions.

Cheers,

[mircea]

Very good research Wallachian +rep

Yes, that would be indeed great. Some Hungarian honved units are a must for 1848. Also, from my knowledge Serbia was pretty much out of the Ottoman sphere since the 1817 revolutions. To be truly great this mod definetly needs some uniforms for these factions. At least some historical rosters should be created and rename some vanilla units that look remotely simillar, just get a feel of the time. Damn, i can just imagine all these revolutions French revoluions in 1830 and 1848, Greek revolution in 1821, the Carbonari rebellion and the 1848 revolutions in Italy! Damnn, the smell of gunpoweder is in the air

In the first phase, the priorities are Tudor Vladimirescu's revolution, Moldavia, Filiki Eteria, Greece, followed by Serbia, and Carbonari uprising from 1820-1821.

You'll have a bit of a giggle at this but here's the revolutionary flag of Tudor Vladimirescu

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Maybe we should use it as a battle flag, for Tudor's personal guard of pandours. maybe a unique elite unit

I think that we should use the flags designed before the passing of Regulamentele Organice, which modified (modernized) slightly the flags and CoA used before. Maybe, if it is possible, we could change the flags, as result of an event.
In regard to the flag of the Wallachia, I found some flags and CoAs used in the period of Tudor Vladimirescu

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

CoA of Wallachia (1796)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ilanti1796.png

Ursani curch c.1800


Walalchian vulture on the door of Horezu Monastery (1807)


The CoAs of Wallachia and Moldova on Constantin Ipsilanti's flag (1806)


The CoAs of Wallachia and Moldova on Alexandru Sutu's flag (1819)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ruSutu1819.png

The flag of agie, with the CoA in 1822 (which seems to be the most fitting)

Unfortunately, details about the CoA and flag of Moldova in 1821 are somewhat flimsy, but Constantin Ipsilanti's flag includes a good CoA of Moldova. Overall, Moldova's flag usually had an aurochs/wisent on a red field

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Pe timpul celei de-a treia domnii a lui Scarlat Callimachi (1812-1819), Stema Moldovei înfãtisa scutul cu un cap de bour cu coarne, între care dominã o stea de aur si deasupra lor doi delfini, reprezentând tãrmul Mãrii Negre, scut care este sustinut de doi lei afrontati.
http://carlakia.wordpress.com/2010/1...rilor-romanie/

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

CoA (1765)


CoA of the Divan of Moldova (1807)


CoA of Moldova and its counties


CoA of Moldova in a fresco at Olari Curch, near Horezu

[Wallachian]

As for starting the game in the middle of the revolution, I think it is possible. It would mean to change the relations with the Ottomans to "war", to move Ottoman troops in Wallachian territory and create a small revolutionary army. Almost all of this can be done by hybrid-ing startpos. However, I'm not sure whether the game later on will be easy to play, as you would need money for the troops and so on. But I'll think about it.

As for the international part I'll try contacting some people and see if we can manage to add some new factions.

Cheers,

Thanks guys!

Well actually it doesn't have to be at war with the Ottomans. From what i recall Tudor Vladimirescu declared that he was still loyal to the Ottomans and the aim of his revolution was just to gain more freedom and remove the phanariots. As soon as the rebellion started Tudor sent a letter to the Sultan stating that his aim was not to reject the Ottoman authority. Of course, from a diplomatic point of view it made perfect sense as the Ottoman armies would have been hard to beat but he was also stalling for time to gain more support from his Greek Eteria allies.

And yes it would be great to get some other people to help with the international factions. I'm pretty sure i saw a Greek mod for Napoleon so that would be a good start.

Great pics Mircea +rep!

[Sotericus]

Thanks guys!

Well actually it doesn't have to be at war with the Ottomans. From what i recall Tudor Vladimirescu declared that he was still loyal to the Ottomans and the aim of his revolution was just to gain more freedom and remove the phanariots. As soon as the rebellion started Tudor sent a letter to the Sultan stating that his aim was not to reject the Ottoman authority. Of course, from a diplomatic point of view it made perfect sense as the Ottoman armies would have been hard to beat but he was also stalling for time to gain more support from his Greek Eteria allies.

And yes it would be great to get some other people to help with the international factions. I'm pretty sure i saw a Greek mod for Napoleon so that would be a good start.

Great pics Mircea +rep!

Right you are Wallachian, that what I was thinking of.

The problem for me at this stage is to try to imagine together what the Principality of Wallachia stands for. In fact, given the limits of the game, we are forced to enter into the realm of alternative history (otherwise how it can be even conceivable that in a number of turns Wallachia will get Istanbul, which is a must, in order to have access at an Uni for research).

But the question is where do we start and what is the scenario we have in mind? I think from here on we can clarify the other issues such as flags, units, events, etc.

In the first version of the mod I made Wallachia a protectorate of the Ottoman Empire having good relations with this one. What I had in mind was precisely the fact that Tudor's negotiations with the Ottomans succeeded and the Wallachians were preparing for another, more strategically significant, uprising (as you can see, there is a lot of fantasy involved ). From this point of view the Russian and Austrian attacks which come very soon on hard/very hard kind of make sense as the Wallachian Principality could be conceived as a threat to the Saint Alliance (though it was protected in the game by the Ottomans).

@ mircea,

Good work, the photos are indeed very nice .

[husserlTW]

Though you might already know this page about flags:

http://flagspot.net/flags/ro-wm.html#ref

[mircea]

The diplomatic situation was quite muddy, and is even harder to represent due to the limitations of the engine.
It will be quite hard to represent the complex relations between Tudor Vladimirescu's faction, the High Porte, Eteria, Russia, mainly because their relations were very fluid, from friendship to neutrality and further to hostility, and all that in less than 6 months.
Overall, Tudor Valdimirescu tried the card of neutrality, to play at more heads, attempting to gain time to organize his forces.

Tudor Valdimirescu's faction and Ottoman Empire
From start, Tudor claimed that his actions were solely against Phanariote hospodars and boyars and their wrongdoings and not against the suzerain power Turkey, and even negotiated with pashas of Vidin, Silistra and Braila. But it is highly doubtful that Tudor really believed that a favorable diplomatic solution with Ottomans was possible, at least not before a Wallachian victory on the field, and negotiation with the Porte were more of a ruse to win some time. I think that Tudor realized that his main enemy was the High Porte and two actions shed some light on his most probable plans. First, shortly before the onset of the revolution, Tudor meets with several leaders of Eteria and afterwards with will make a defensive pact with Eteria, secret organization that was in war with Ottomans. Secondly, years before the revolution, he fortifies several monasteries and prepares the defense of Oltenia, realizing that only a prolonged resistance will allow him to win back Wallachia's rights. As a matter of fact, the first clashes with Ottomans took place several days before Tudor's death(26/27 May), at Slatina on May 23, while at Zavideni, on May 26, Ioan Solomon's pandours manage to break encirclement and retreat toward Ramnicu Valcea. Hearing about the death of Tudor, Solomon will disband his unit and will run in Transylvania. As such, I think that Wallachia should be neutral toward the Ottomans, with poor relations, because as I see, the clash between Tudor and Ottomans was inevitable.


Tudor Valdimirescu and Russia
Although Tudor hoped that Russia will intervene on his behalf at the table of negotiations, probably he was not to keen to see another ravaging Russo-Turkish war in Wallachia. On other hand, at the Congress of Ljubljana, Russia formally repudiated both revolutions (Greek and Wallachian), but in fact continued its tacitly support for Eteria. Several years later, in 1828, Russia (and France and UK) will declare war on Ottomans, in support of Greek revolution. Wallachia could be a either neutral, or, in order to counter Austria's aggressiveness, it could be a protectorate of Russia, relations between the two should be good.

Tudor Valdimirescu and Austria
The main topic of Ljubljana Congress was not the revolution from Wallachia, but rather the Carbonari revolution from Naples. Austria will be tasked to squash this revolution, and for the next few decades, Vienna will concentrate more on Italian peninsula. Laking any clear interest in regard to Wallachia, and preoccupied by Carbonari, Austrian-Wallachian relations should be normal.

And now a question for modders, how should we represent Eteria?

Sorry for the very long post

[Sotericus]

Though you might already know this page about flags:

http://flagspot.net/flags/ro-wm.html#ref

Thank you, Husserl. I've already put a them in the 5th post on this page . However, it is worth mentioning the fact that this is site has a quite thorough and reliable collection of flags, though the quality of the pictures could be better. I'll try finding a better picture for the flag Wallachian suggested.

I also wanted to ask you wether the game forces you to use the same flag for the faction on the campaign map and on the battle map.

I remember reading a while ago a thread about someone trying to have different flags for different units.

Cheers, and thanks.