Update

[Meneth]

I'd love to see future SS become Alltowns.

Both MSC and RozMod only has cities
Not sure if RozMod works with 6.4 yet, though.

[RollingWave]

I also favor lower growth rate ... though it needs to be combined with a lot of changes to the recruitment pool to work, your right that with the current pool setup it would be weird as too many units would be extremely hard to reach.

We could simply make most units start to be recruitable at or before the castle / large town level though. and obviously scale up pool and rate accordingly per level, this would make more sense anyway. with some exception (mostly later units) most units didn't actually require super high infrastructure to build (some exception obviously exist though.)

As for mounted axe / mace... they were mostly shorter / lighter yes... but combined with the momentum of a moving horse and/or hitting downard from higher position their impact was usually just as good.. or even better... (though that part is generally reflected in RC anyway)

Also PB, are you using some common script to build your EDB or a self made script?

[Ichon]

Both MSC and RozMod only has cities
Not sure if RozMod works with 6.4 yet, though.

It makes more sense to me to be this way- and I've read some interesting things about tying battle map walls to buildings in the settlement so citadel sieges might still be able to appear if the necessary building is built though no mod has worked that out totally. Even if can't happen its a small loss to make AI have more uniform access to units and a bit tougher for player to pick a certain place to start an invasion.

We could simply make most units start to be recruitable at or before the castle / large town level though. and obviously scale up pool and rate accordingly per level, this would make more sense anyway. with some exception (mostly later units) most units didn't actually require super high infrastructure to build (some exception obviously exist though.)

Yes... this would be what I'd do in the current situation. Not sure how feasible it is to start on it before knowing where the future of SS is going by Gracul's estimation anyway.

[RollingWave]

That is the problem isn't it ... Gracul and crew moving faster than the rest of us

[k/t]

The modders won't be going to Shogun 2 if there's nothing to mod.

I also like the all-town idea. I will download Rozanov's mod and give it a whirl. Stone forts can only have one layer of walls?

[JorisofHolland]

The modders won't be going to Shogun 2 if there's nothing to mod.

You just found the only upside of the 'new' CA modding policies.

I also like the all-town idea. I will download Rozanov's mod and give it a whirl. Stone forts can only have one layer of walls?

I think it's possible to design multi-layered ones, it's just more work.

[guyverlance]

I think part of this problem is the separation between castle/city. Citadels are so important to recruitment and size of armies and diversity of units... also makes some of the factions have odd army compositions in my opinion.

I personally favor lower growth rates- just gets annoying to have most cities already on huge walls by turn 150. It feels more strategic when some cities are much more important than others but- the fact you can neuter a faction by capturing a couple fortresses is too extreme. I'd love to see future SS become Alltowns. Of course the trouble with constant improvement(or just change) is that the legacy submods that had really good ideas and intentions get left behind.

Have you talked with Gracul about plans for future of SS and where its moving? Not sure if 6.4 is just a step towards 7.0 or will be the last version for awhile? To save some time so not only you but other modders don't work to change for 6.4 and then find a week after release that 6.5 is out. Right now so many interesting mods going on but this is probably the golden age before MTW2 starts to feel antiquated when new Shogun comes out and modders and players start to move on.

this is going to be sad. i hope you guys still mod for MTW2 *weeps*

[newt]

Unless CA changes it's modding support, Shogun wont get much support from modders. You wont see epic mods like SS in it, it just wont be possible to do. About all you'll get is re-skinned units with different stats. No new maps-- there is only so much you will be able to change

[bachinchi]

You just found the only upside of the 'new' CA modding policies.

Yes, it would have been awesome a version of SS (and Europa Barbarorum) with the STW2 engine. Oh well...

[napoleonic]

Yes, it would have been awesome a version of SS (and Europa Barbarorum) with the STW2 engine. Oh well...

errr no, even if S2 as mod able as M2, it would still impossible to mod it into european game since you'd have to create many new animations, unless you want to see knights fighting in japanese style

[Gorrrrrn]

You just found the only upside of the 'new' CA modding policies.


I think it's possible to design multi-layered ones, it's just more work.

Rozmods with the perm stone forts have multi-wall forts (ie with the normal castles (without tech tree internal buildings) but made available to build as forts on the strat map.)

There is a perm stone forts mod for SS6.4 (early and late campaigns.) has the best range of forts available - 22 IIRC. should be compatible with just about all SS6.4 mods.

[bachinchi]

errr no, even if S2 as mod able as M2, it would still impossible to mod it into european game since you'd have to create many new animations, unless you want to see knights fighting in japanese style

Frankish samurais!!

[Point Blank]

Hope to get my broken laptop fixed tomorrow so will get back to seeing if anything can be integrated into 6.4. 6.4 looks pretty good!

[Phil of Loreauville]

Hope to get my broken laptop fixed tomorrow so will get back to seeing if anything can be integrated into 6.4. 6.4 looks pretty good!

That's great PB!
And just one more time to ease my mind.....................
Will there be any changes to the units?

[PerXX]

Well, the Magyar Mod units, as stated in the first post, I'm guessing.

[Point Blank]

Rough outline of next update:

On the whole I'm aiming for as few changes to 6.4 as possible. Mostly as follows (some of these may be in 6.4 already):

-2H spear animation added
-warman222's death anims
-minor BAI updates, mostly just some skirmish distance differences
-some new cursors (easy to remove if people don't like)
-additional loading screens as included in RR/RC
-maybe some new strat models, I have to check whether 6.4 or RR/RC has the latest ones
-couple of added buildings, eg River Ports and/or River Access
-MTW unit portraits, also easy to remove if people don't like
-updated grass removes some of the big flowers from the BETTER GRASS mod
-added MTW Frontend music to music, the original 6.3 Frontend music stays also so it alternates. This is the only addition I made to 6.3 music, otherwise it is totally unchanged
-some text changes
-some updated models
-Lithuanian updates from Teutonic Crusade mod (I have yet to obtain permission for this)
-cedric37's latest UI's
-considering adding in Broken Sword with permission
-maybe 1450 campaign, yes I know its (massively) unhistorical

Also, here is the August 13 2010 update list, I think some of these maybe didn't make it to 6.4:

AUGUST 13 UPDATE LIST
-Latest Germanicu5 BattleAI
-Peasants are updated thanks to AWellesley's new models (early peasants have 2H crude weapons, later peasants have simple polearms), late peasants become available after about 1220
-Seether's Alberi di Famiglia Regal v1.01 (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...hlight=alberto) is fully integrated (including new faction starting funds and updated King's Purses)
-HRE has taken over Sicily in Late Campaign
-Mongol and Timurid economy allows for them to expand much more powerfully
-a number of stat fixes and updates
-France has French Archers
-new Mongol/Timurid icons by merlinuscdxx
-Fair Prince's text updates
-totally revised AI siege code to (hopefully) avoid CTD's some people are having
-era-dependent garrison script (code adapted from Tsarsies)
-updated Mongol and Timurid army composition and invasion scripts
-Rozanov's script to destroy unused crusade units
-Adana rebel garrison removed in Late Era
-borders returned to minimap, but you can substitute descr_sm_factions_NO_BORDERS by romy instead if you prefer
-other problems described in other threads fixed if possible
-Cumans in Wallachia in early campaign buffed
-most economies adjusted
-some campaign script issues fixed
-David.Coole's STRATWATER added
-further stat updates
-some Ghazis available in Anatolia even without a crusade
-religious conversion slowed

1H axe: Attack 6 Defense 2 Attack Delay 60, which can be compared to an arming sword Attack 4 Defense 5 Attack Delay 30. If we also slowed down the axe animation somewhat, it would probably be a reasonable representation.

In that case we could make the mace at 2AP/3/45 and unchanged animation speed, since the mace was a rather later development optimized for fighting armored opponents.

From RollingWave
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Bringing in Landsknecht Pikemen as a unit for the HRE, recruitable from their City Halls.

Bringing in Doppelsoldners to replace the (ahistorical) Forlorn Hope and Zweihander units , again, recruitable from City Halls.

Mixing in some reskinned (so they are the same colour as the other Landsknecht) Forlorn Hope into the Doppelsoldners (for the helmets and the tassets)

Bring in Landsknecht Halberdiers from CC's Battle For the Baltic Mod. Again, recruitable in City Halls

Rename "Black Band Arquebusiers" to "Landsknecht Arquebusiers", again, bring them into the City Halls.

Also make Landsknecht recruitable for Denmark. Maybe widen the area where they can be hired as mercenaries and make them more common - they were the universal mercenary of the 1500s.

Make Swiss Mercenaries (Pikemen, Armoured Pikemen and Swiss Halberdiers) recruitable for France, Milan, Genoa and Pisa).
I would also suggest removing the professional pike units aside from the Tercio Pikemen, Landsknechts and Swiss. This leaves the factions only with militia pikemen and mercenaries, yes. Such was the nature of 15th and 16th century warfare, as far as my information goes.

Other small things:
Early Reiters shouldn't have gauntlets (you can't reload a pistol with gauntlets), nor barded horses. I would also suggest renaming them 'Cuirassers'.

Handgunners....uhm. Maybe just remove them?
-------------------------
Tabardariyya: will be changed to Early Pro and recruited in a similar manner to Varangians, thanks to k/t for suggestion.
Huskarl Axemen (2H axe) will be Elite.

mounted arquebus etc: + 0.005 accuracy

Examine RollingWave's shield stat suggestions.

Increase Arrow Flaming delay to 20.

Limit Flaming Arrows to be available to only certain units.

Introduce new armor developments later for non-Elite units.

Most Skirmish units will melee at 1 level less than shooting quality level, rather than 2 as for missile units

Possible global -1 attack and +1 defense for all units of Superior quality or better

Possible slowdown in Missile shooting animation speed for all Missile archers of less than Superior Quality

Possible slowdown in Skirmish shooting animation speed for all Skirmish Archers of less than Average Quality

Possible increase in Skirmish shooting animation speed for all Skirmish Archers of better than Average Quality

Possible reduction in Javelin ranges to 42m+ due to experimentation by rusnmat

[k/t]

PB, are you avoiding the Bugs thread?

[Ichon]

Nice ideas with the changing of Pikes and making the better ones more mercenary in nature. Of course I'm happy to see armor events later for non-elites.

[merocaine]

maybe 1450 campaign, yes I know its (massively) unhistorical

Please add it in, its the only campaign I play! If i could only find the script to remove the ottoman empire merging with the Fatimids I'd be a happy man.

Tabardariyya: Fatimid Heavy Inf availability changed from 'normal' to weak, this will reduce their replacement rate by at least 1/3. Also it seems counter-intuitive that these guys are elite whereas Huskarl Axemen are only Superior - I think this should be switched.

This one, the AI spams Tabardariyya otherwise, those are the best infantry around, and makes the Fatimids a little overpowered.

I would also suggest removing the professional pike units aside from the Tercio Pikemen, Landsknechts and Swiss. This leaves the factions only with militia pikemen and mercenaries, yes. Such was the nature of 15th and 16th century warfare, as far as my information goes.

Thats a great Idea, one thing should the Swiss have locked morale? its a bit over the top. is there any other way to show that they were excellent troops?

[Ichon]

Please add it in, its the only campaign I play! If i could only find the script to remove the ottoman empire merging with the Fatimids I'd be a happy man.

Did you check out Tears of Destiny 1370 submod? It is still WIP but likely to be completed with much more historical accuracy than the 1450 which was nice to have to access later units but was really a very basic port of early campaigns.