Our cooperation is further excluded?

[Sinuhet]

Ave Darth Vader!

I would like to do a point after our previous arguments and I would like to ask you again as in the start of the summer about a possibility of our cooperation. The two last months, when I have developed quite different thing and my work on formations was stopped, created some area for "cooling" as for the competitiveness in the field of the formations, minimally on my side. I think that it is not necessary to join our efforts to some large extent. I think also that we both are so such strong and mutually incompatible individualities that it would not possible anyways, as the reality already showed. On the other hand, it seems to me a bit large luxurious to waste my time with new invastigation of things, which you have developed for the Siege and Bridge battles and for Marching formations. They are good enough, in my opinion. So what I would like to ask you about, is your official permission for me to use this parts also for my formations mods - all credits for you in this are of course fully granted, the details we can debate. I have some good new ideas, which I would like implement for my formations mods, however I am not sure still if it will be feasible, so it will want a lot of time for development and testing, so why lost time with the already good developed things. As for the reciprocity, you can feel free to use all the things from my previous versions of the formations mods, which you would want - I have gave them under NTO, so no other permissions for anybody, only credits for NTO and me in some visible form.
If it will not be possible from your side, it doesnt matter. I will live also without it, but it will be better for users (for example SPQR formations would benefit from this certainly). As for me, to develop these (and maybe still better) formations is not a question of abilities, but only a question of free time.

Bye Sinuhet

[repman]

In general both formations: (darth 8.5 and sinuhets) are not working very good for rome 1.5
- AI is searching now for the best tactical point, moving a lot--> formations are breaking and restructering
- maybe my balancing of units is not the best , it has certainly an effect

specific darth 8.5:
- formations are breaking into parts

specific sinuhet special (SPQR)
- in the beginning AI is standing still not attacking (maybe strength calculations and comparison AI-User)
- AI is approaching and then stands still before the enemy (decimated by my fire) and then attacks

Sinuhet what do you mean by cooperation ?
- darth has written an extensive guide regarding formations, I haven't seen a discussion of the mentioned points from your side.
- his text.files are open, there are no secrets in it
So what else do you need?

Hoping for improvement regarding formations from both sides

repman

[Sinuhet]

In general both formations: (darth 8.5 and sinuhets) are not working very good for rome 1.5
- AI is searching now for the best tactical point, moving a lot--> formations are breaking and restructering
- maybe my balancing of units is not the best , it has certainly an effect

specific darth 8.5:
- formations are breaking into parts

specific sinuhet special (SPQR)
- in the beginning AI is standing still not attacking (maybe strength calculations and comparison AI-User)
- AI is approaching and then stands still before the enemy (decimated by my fire) and then attacks

Sinuhet what do you mean by cooperation ?
- darth has written an extensive guide regarding formations, I haven't seen a discussion of the mentioned points from your side.
- his text.files are open, there are no secrets in it
So what else do you need?

Hoping for improvement regarding formations from both sides

repman

Ave repman!

A lot of important information for me. I have not installed 1.5 yet, because I am now playing and developing in SPQR 4.6 (based on the RTW 1.2) only. The formations of mine are for 1.2 only, I have never stated that they are compatible with anything above RTW 1.2.

After finishing the "Scripted diplomacy for SPQR" (now for 4.6, and hopefully also as add-on for 5.0 too) project I will turn my attention to this incompatibility of my formations with RTW 1.5 (but probably not for BI 1.4 or 1.6) and I will also try to implement something quite new to these new formations. Its me. As for DV, I am sure he is still doing on this, as I know him.

As for the cooperation: I think it is not possible without some other round of annoying between me and DV (and it would not be right anyway) only copy paste the parts of DV formations to the mines. Your attitude to these things is in my eyes "too liberal". So I am asking official permission to use these parts and also to distribute them as a part of my formations mod, with all rights on them for DV granted, with conditions he will ask. It is the right way.

Bye to you and hopefully DV too. Sinuhet

[DARTH VADER]

sinuhet:My only care is to share files and help people enjoy the game as much as I do (when I find time to play as mostly I do tests than play it any more and have no time to do more).Although you and lt1956 have dissapointed me in the past I cannot deny you any permission cause I am sure that this will help the community which is not familiar in modding and copy/pasting jobs.You remember me helping you when you asked so this should answer your questions about my attitude "with" you and not "against" you.
Let as all be in peace and work mutually.
If you want mention my contribution to the siege tactics in readme file as it serves you.
I will enhance the tutorial soon that will explain certain aspects of this modding technic so anybody could try new things.
bye

PS.You mention that you have the abilities to fix better siege AI tactics but lack time?Notify me then when you have smthg ready or do not mention it.

[Sinuhet]

Ave Darth Vader!

Thank you for your permission to use these parts. This your kind attitude will create a bit large area for me to do during holidays more deeper investigations as for the other possible innovations in the field of the formations.

You are right that I have not still ready to use and fully implemented the new ideas (which could change also the siege battles), but I think that you know that I have never only simply talk about something. And as for the variety of the used techniques for the formations I am still several steps before you. It is a fact, you know this probably and it is natural that you have some of these things gradually implemented also to your mods (and it doesnt matter if independently) and, on the other hand, sometimes even in more wider or deeper manner then I have done it. Anyway, I see now great potential in some new attitudes to modding the battles, but on the other hand, I am not still quite sure, naturally, if they will be fully feasible.

Anyway, thanks a lot still again for your permission and I am glad that our mutual relations can be called now as quite neutral.

Bye Sinuhet

[repman]

Why sinuhet are you writing again in this provocative manner ?
If you are several steps ahead of darth in using new techniques then let us know which are these techniques ? For us normal users its totally unimported to know who is first who is second.......This is not real life this is modding
Although it would be interesting going to the tutorial of Darth about modifying formations and giving your opinion to the different points mentioned there.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=32103

Maybe we can create a sticky formations thread with open discussion from you experts in a cool scientific way without personal schnickschnack

repman

[Destraex]

Very gracious DARTH VADER I salute you!
If only more modders had such a community attitude. I seem to recall certain modders who were able to get men onto the siege towers not sharing with anyone

[Sinuhet]

Why sinuhet are you writing again in this provocative manner ?
If you are several steps ahead of darth in using new techniques then let us know which are these techniques ? For us normal users its totally unimported to know who is first who is second.......This is not real life this is modding
Although it would be interesting going to the tutorial of Darth about modifying formations and giving your opinion to the different points mentioned there.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=32103

Maybe we can create a sticky formations thread with open discussion from you experts in a cool scientific way without personal schnickschnack

repman

Ave repman!

Why could be provocative to say the facts, which are simply to prove by mere comparing the things involved in my and DVs mods? And these are not some new techniques, but the things which I have implemented in functional manner already in March - April 2005. In every case, I dont want to be this interpreted as some provocation.

I now take the whole situation like similar to relations between Apple/Mac and Wintel platforms. No doubt can be that Apple was the first, who has introduced graphical interface for the table computers. It is an original solution, which is mark of quality and stability till nowdays. On the other hand, it was the Wintel who conquered the world with this and gradually dominated with its more simpler (and by this also more flexible etc.) attitude, good marketing and other things, which are not dependent on the qualities of their respective products. People like this solution more from some reasons (and they are not all rational), but there is not any reason to think that Apple/Mac is not good - it is still for some unique functions better in some concrete situations, but the average PC user dont know about all of this and it is not necessary at all too. The Wintel is good enough and historically from various reasons surpassed the original Apple/Mac idea.

However, you are totally in mistake as for the two other things in your post, i.e. if it is not important (for normal users) to recognise who is the first and the second, and that "this is not real life but modding".

Have you anytimes think about motivations for to do modding? Money, the one of the basic motivations in life, are out of question "from definition" in this case. So what is the power, which is driving talented people to "waste a time" with such "unproductive thing"? I think that reason is the second one from the main motivations in the real life - competitivness or more precisely speaking its two triggers: one has a desire to have a greater impact than any other on the certain thing and a wish to express himself - to let some mark in reality that he was here. One of the results of these triggers is effort to expand own ideas, but with the sign, not totally altruistically and in anonymity. I think that it is similar why people are trying to dominate in forum politics, to be unique in their posts on some topics and so on. If they wouldnt have these motivations, they would only anonymically shared basic information about the game and play it and "would not waste time" with creating some virtual reality in Forum. If these motivations will be vanished, the productiveness and Forum life will die.

As for the relation of all these things (modding included) and the reality, I think that the reality as we know it from the normal world is more influencing the virtual reality and all the things on the forum, than one could think on the first sight. Always will dominate individual character features of involved people. So thinking that you are in this forum in the area with some other rules than you know it from your life is only wish, but not the truth. The things have certain inertia, are mutually dependent, and the categories of quantity or quality such as the amount or the power are still valid. What is still more important, all the things from real world are under surface, but they are here, prepared to errupt on surface in various situations, sometimes unwished or only from deep subconsciuosness. From this reason it is better if the rules for this forum are defined in manner similar as much as possible to the ones from the real world.

As for my reactions on DVs tutorial or some discussion about formations, I would like if it will be possible already. But it was not "from various reasons" good to start with this before and I am not quite sure if the time is right already now. In every case, it was me who wanted this from the start but was restricted in this. The other question is however the lack of time. But maybe it would be better for my self-expression to do own tutorial than to strive to achieve new findings, which I could implement for my relatively marginally used formations - and to do thorough RandD for somebody other is already a bit tidious for me. So maybe in the first place the tutorial and my angle of sight on the things related to formations. It appears me now as a good idea after you have suggested it.

Bye Sinuhet

[repman]

@sinuhet
In the BI Formations there is the new instruction:
supported_factions berbers, sassanids

I don't know if this is working although in rome 1.5. So it would be possible to create faction specific formations which gives better directives for the AI to choose.

It's not necessary to write a whole new tutorial, because Darth one's is already excellent. Better analyize each paragraph, and give your feedback on the main points. Then add the other relevant points from your opinion. That's the quickest way. No need to write a book

[Sinuhet]

@sinuhet
In the BI Formations there is the new instruction:
supported_factions berbers, sassanids

I don't know if this is working although in rome 1.5. So it would be possible to create faction specific formations which gives better directives for the AI to choose.

It's not necessary to write a whole new tutorial, because Darth one's is already excellent. Better analyize each paragraph, and give your feedback on the main points. Then add the other relevant points from your opinion. That's the quickest way. No need to write a book

Ave repman!

Thanks for this information. I know this already, I have asked one member about sending me the copy of the AI fromations script file from BI and I have noticed this. But I dont own BI, it is relatively a lot of money for me, so I am waiting on the Christmas :wink: . As for the new possibilities in 1.5 patch, I am not able to tell anything too, because I have not downloaded it yet. As I have said already in other post, I am playing and developing from the September only on the platform of the SPQR 4.0+ RTW mod, so I have not need the 1.5 till yet (SPQR 4.6 is based on the 1.2, the 5.0 should be on the 1.2 too). I am planning to do a patched version of my formations 3.0 for 1.2 (include the new things from SPQR AI formations, and maybe also include the above permitted parts from DVs 8.5 fromations - but in this I am not sure yet). After this I will start slowly to investigate the possibilities of the 1.5 (it will be vital for other usage of my foramtions at all) and maybe also of the BI 1.6.

As for the tutorial, or rather called it my information to formations modding, I am not going to repeat the things, which are alredy covered by DV in his tutorial. But I think that I would have a lot of other information to share about things, which DV has not mentioned/solved .

Bye and thanks Sinuhet