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Thread: Battle walkthrough - early Julii vs. Gauls

  1. #1
    Tacticalwithdrawal's Avatar Ghost
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    Default Battle walkthrough - early Julii vs. Gauls

    Well, I've started a Julii campaign from scratch so I can use the increased unit numbers change that Lt gave out a while back. There will be a Mighty Julii (2) thread where I'll post about the campaign (if anyone is interested that's a bonus ). This post is in response to a lot of people that wondered how I was getting such low casualties in my last campaign. I'm gonna walk through a battle and explain what I did step by step, any comments would be appreciated.

    Background - faction leader Flavius Julius has just taken Segesta and has now moved to seige Bononia. Army is basically the starting one (date is 269 BC) and comprises - 4 hastati, 3 Principes, 2 Triarii, 1 Velites, 2 Archers and a general for a total of 2046 men. Bononia has 2086 Gauls in it.

    AI turn - Gallic army of 3130 force marches to relieve Bononia and attacks, Flavius Julius decides to stand and fight, his 2046 vs. 5,216 barbarian scum. Victory is expected

    Flavius sets up position on a slight hill above the town, standard formation:



    The Gallic general sends one unit of cavalry towards Flavius' right flank, and Flavius counters by moving a unit of Triarii to block, a standoff ensues. The second unit of gallic cavalry get a bit ambitious and charge the Roman lines. They are quickly routed and the archers hasten them on their way before switching target to the stationary cavalry on the right flank, it's a massacre.



    Disgusted at his cavalry's incompetance the Gallic commander orders the infantry to attack. The Roman shieldwall stands firm but Flavius orders a unit of Principes forward to support the left flank (where the barbarians are lapping around the end of the shieldwall), and a second forward to support the centre, just in time as the enemy general drives his cavalry in.

    With no time to lose and with the shieldwall holding the Gallic forces in place, Falvius springs the trap. He has overloaded his right flank and now moves himself and his spare Triarii unit around the right and into position behind the Gauls. The Archers meanwhile engage the routing Warband that was the first gallic unit in range of the pilums and sufferred accordingly (this means I won't suffer friendly fire casualties and gives the archers something to do ).

    It is now a race to get the Gallic right flank to collapse (where 3 gallic units are taking on 5 Roman + the General) before the shieldwall in the centre fails. In an effort to bolster it a little more the Velites join the fight.



    The battle splits in two with heavy concentrations of Gauls on the left and right flanks. Flavius drives his bodygaurd into the rear of the Gauls on the extreme right, at the same time the Triarii drive into their flank. As they rout Flavius pulls back and charges the rear of the next formation in line, and again recieves support from the infantry that has been freed up. Meanwhile the Velites disengage and move off in pursuit of the routing infantry. On the left the shieldwall plus its supporting Principes units is still holding firm, and they achieve the supreme coup of trapping and killing the enemy general.



    Now the rout is on, with the death of the general the Gauls on the left flank break as well.



    Flavius and the Velites pursue supported by a unit of Triarii. The remainder of the army reforms after the initial pursuit to face the
    second Gallic army. With Flavius and his infantry returning from the pursuit, the army reformed:



    Slightly less standard formation now, the 2 most beaten up Hastati have been withdrawn to the reserve (they actually play no further part in the battle) and their places are taken by two Principes units (with the one Principes with pilums left on the left of the line closest to the gauls). Velites too have been pulled right back as they have no javelins.

    Deciding the bulk of the Gauls on the right is the threat Flavius moves all his army, except the left flank Triarii, himself and the Velites, to block them with the archers engaging the two swordsmen units. Meanwhile, as the snow comes on, the Triarii are ordered to attack the isolated Heavy Spear warband and the velites and Flavius move round behind them.



    Again the tried and tested tactic of pinning with the infantry (in this case the Triarii) and attacking the flank and rear simultanously with cavalry and infantry works, the Heavy Spear warband routs and is hotly pursued (a little too hotly, Flavius in his wisdom decided to charge the fully formed warband that was coming up from behind , he lost 15 of his bodygaurd before I could get him out )

    With the left flank now secure and Flavius and his infantry back with the main body of the army, Flavius ordered his infantry to attack. Again the tactics were simple, the shieldwall engaged and pinned the nearest Gallic unit, while the Triarii went round the back (Flavius would have gone too but he counter-charged the Gallic cavalry when it attacked the centre of the shieldwall, killing the Gallic General):



    With the Gallic army again collapsing a general pursuit was ordered. The 2 Archers and the Velites attacked the unit of skirmishers on the left flank, driving them back and finaly routing them. The Triarii targetted the regrouping Gallic cavalry, however they were too slow and the Gallic cavalry managed to charge the Archers and Velites. However, it is a little known secret that concentrations of skirmishing troops are lethal to cavalry ( ) and the cavalry routs for a second time.

    Meanwhile the one remaining warband is pinned by two Roman units, and then routs when charged from behind by Flavius and his bodygaurd.



    Stats:
    Roman Army - 2046 men at start, 1545 at the end, 4516 kills and a Heroic victory with swords on the map.
    Gallic Army 1 - 3130 men at start, 457 escaped, 321 kills
    Gallic Army 2 - 2086 men at start, 237 escaped, 230 kills

    Kill ratio: 4516:561 or just over 8:1 (and don't forget, this was using the expanded unit sizes).

    Summary
    OK, so the second army made it a bit easier by sitting back and then splitting up, but the main reason the victory happened was the use of a very simple hammer and anvil tactic:

    1. shieldwall is the anvil. It pins the enemy troops and holds them in place
    2. one flank (in this case my right) is then overloaded with troops.
    3. these spare infantry then move around the flank and attack the enemy infantry in the flank.
    4. at the same time the cavalry (in this case the general) moves further round the flank and attacks the same enemy units form the rear.
    5. as the enemy units rout my freed up infantry attack the next enemy unit down the line, soon you get a general rout and the cavalry and velites switch to pursuit mode.

    This only works because the enemy cavalry are neutralised. When the Gallic cavalry came round my right flank, moving the triarii to block stopped them dead in their tracks. If my archers hadn't massacred them, then I would have charged them with the triarii and attacked their flank with the general, and then moved onto step 3 above.

    The other trick worth remembering is that velites do make good cavalry killers. To do this you stack 2 velites units together and make sure skirmish is switched off. They will take casualties from the initial charge but the now stationary cavalry are then cut to shreds by the rmaining velites. Because of theis, I often use them as flank gaurds if there is cavalry about and once their javelins are spent.

    Anyway, hope this is of some use, please post comments as I plan to do another one if there is enough interest.
    Last edited by Tacticalwithdrawal; December 18, 2005 at 07:37 AM.
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  2. #2

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    Good walkthrough...

    As u said u were a bit luky with both enemy armies separated... u had time enough to regroup and tackle the next army... what about if both armies... 3k strong... attack flavius army at the same time? one using a frontal assault and the other coming from the flank or back of ur army... I have come accross this situation several times and did not do very well ;-(

  3. #3
    Tacticalwithdrawal's Avatar Ghost
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    I've had that happen once and it did get a bit hectic, what surprised me here was that the 2nd army took so long to get into play. But the only real difference if they had come up quicker is that I wouldn't have been able to go after the routers from the 1st army so aggressively.
    : - It's my smilie and I'll use it if I want to......
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    Ave Caesar, Morituri Nolumus Mori (in Glaswegian: gae **** yrsel big man)
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    Child of Seleukos, Patron of Rosacrux redux, Polemides, Marcus Scaurus, CaptainCernick, Spiff and Fatsheep

  4. #4

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    For those who have to little time to search (or are just plain lazy )could i have a link to the increased unit numbers change download. Saying that im probably being blind and its on the main page..

  5. #5

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    It has disapeared - go back a few pages - Lt named it something like resized units!

    "Sure there have been injuries and deaths in boxing - but none of them serious" - Alan Minter
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  6. #6

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    Tactical still shield was should be used properly with 2ranks deep, I never dreamed someone would use it unhistorically. :-( It gives the player too unfair advantage leaving it 3-5 ranks deep, and IMO is cheap. but thats just my opinion. :-)

    Anyway good tutorial, you should do more, but with House rule type setup so the newbie doesnt get off on the wrong foot. ;-)
    Lt_1956
    Creator of SPQR:Total War mod since 2004

  7. #7

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    Nice use of tactics and shield wall, although using the shield wall 3-5 ranks deep is kinda cheap, but a good battle none the less...:wink:

  8. #8
    DeeDee's Avatar Civis
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    Lt1956,Would you be kind enough to Sticky the increased unit sized thread or repost it For i couldn't find it and I would love to have increased unit szes it would be very helpful indeed.0
    "Predictions of upcoming apocalyptic wars are frequent but often silly"-IamthePope

  9. #9

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    That was a beta for testing, testing is over. You'll have to wait for 5.0, sorry.
    Lt_1956
    Creator of SPQR:Total War mod since 2004

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    DeeDee's Avatar Civis
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    okay,fine enough how long till 5.0 will it be out by feburary
    "Predictions of upcoming apocalyptic wars are frequent but often silly"-IamthePope

  11. #11
    Tacticalwithdrawal's Avatar Ghost
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    Quote Originally Posted by lt1956
    Tactical still shield was should be used properly with 2ranks deep, I never dreamed someone would use it unhistorically. :-( It gives the player too unfair advantage leaving it 3-5 ranks deep, and IMO is cheap. but thats just my opinion. :-)

    Anyway good tutorial, you should do more, but with House rule type setup so the newbie doesnt get off on the wrong foot. ;-)
    Apart from the shieldwall setup I think the rest is to house rules?

    About house rules, I know, we keep debating this I just think it looks silly 2 ranks deep, but basically the only reason I don't use it is it spreads my front far to wide for my style of play (ie. concentrated centre with flanks I can easily get round, and which positively encourage enemies to try to flank me)

    However, would I historically be allowed to use the following hastati formation (all shieldwall)?

    ...HHHHHHHH...HHHHHHHHHHHH...HHHHHHHHHHHH
    ......HHHHHHHHHHHHHH......HHHHHHHHHHH

    I think that it would be ok as I know the Romans used to rotate fresh troops into the battle line and swap out the knackered ones.

    By the by, I think someone has taken over your ID and is masquerading as you, that's the third post I've seen recently without a single 'lol' in it

    @DeeDee - thread for the going large file is http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=38148
    but you do need to start a new campaign, using it on a saved campaign seemed to cause me CTD's
    : - It's my smilie and I'll use it if I want to......
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    Ave Caesar, Morituri Nolumus Mori (in Glaswegian: gae **** yrsel big man)
    ______________________________________________________________
    Child of Seleukos, Patron of Rosacrux redux, Polemides, Marcus Scaurus, CaptainCernick, Spiff and Fatsheep

  12. #12
    DeeDee's Avatar Civis
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    Well ty, tacticalwithdrawl
    "Predictions of upcoming apocalyptic wars are frequent but often silly"-IamthePope

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by jegui
    Good walkthrough...

    As u said u were a bit luky with both enemy armies separated... u had time enough to regroup and tackle the next army... what about if both armies... 3k strong... attack flavius army at the same time? one using a frontal assault and the other coming from the flank or back of ur army... I have come accross this situation several times and did not do very well ;-(

    It's easy, you simply form your line into a semi-circle, or create two lines. This is completely uneffective against better exp'd units though. At the start of a battle you should always try to find the highest ground or a place where on flank is protected by some terrain obstacle. Failing that, i've even made a complete circle with about 1/8 of it backing up to a rock and won against a vastly superior force.


    To Tactical: Gj! You fight exactly like me lol.

    -Revan

  14. #14

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    a fine battle commander

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