antigonids reform

[freakkriek]

quite short question:

what changes?? no new units so???

[Finn]

The Dynasty of Antigonos gain Thorakitai after the reforms

[JCB206]

Old Thread, but how do you get the reforms for the Antigonids?

[Finn]

The reforms are currently bugged but are fixed in the upcoming patch. An updated reforms thread will be released at the same time as the patch, which will contain all the requirements in order to trigger the reforms.

[JCB206]

The reforms are currently bugged but are fixed in the upcoming patch. An updated reforms thread will be released at the same time as the patch, which will contain all the requirements in order to trigger the reforms.

Playing my second campaign...the reforms worked for Carthage.

So what were the triggers supposed to be for the Antigonids? I'm pretty sure I haven't met them, unless they are ridiculously easy. Haven't even fought the Romans yet, which should be one of them. Sure hope they work...may have to add the unit they get, just don't know when to do it. Thanks.

[Finn]

IIRC all Greek reforms had 1% chance of happening between turn 120 and 240 and a 10% chance after turn 240. I don't think they worked though, so may be better off adding the Thorakitai when you think it's appropriate.

[Caligula Caesar]

I think they were set so they would trigger when the Antigonids conquered certain regions and were at war with Rome. However, some of the region names were wrong on reforms like this, so they didn't all work.

[JCB206]

Thanks for the answers...I'm in 245 BC and have conquered all Greece and Macedonia.

Recently the Spartans broke their alliance for some odd reason. Marched my Royal army to Megalopolis, laid siege, and fought a series of battles with the Spartans...facing zero spartan units besides the general bodyguards. The only Spartan unit found was in a city I laid siege to and they capitulated without sallying out. The Peroiki units were tough but not match for Elite Hoplites, Elite Phalanx units, Cretan Archers, Asian Elephants and heavy Peltests. Took minimal casualties as they attacked in armies of about 1200 at a time on ground of my choosing. Sent a very small army to Crete to end all their resistance.

Now that Greece and Macedonia are under my control and I have no enemies. May turtle for a few years, just looking to reorganise my armies for taking out the Illyrians and the coming war with rome.

Just trying to decide when to get the Thorakitai. (Really cool looking unit BTW) Why are they swordsmen? I thought Thorakitai were medium spearmen/skirmishers with mail armor adopted from the Romans?

Maybe I will wait a bit until my wars with Rome, sense that was why they came about. Greece is so rich, that money is fast becoming a distant problem. I thought Carthage would be this rich. Thanks for the help and any answers or suggestions would be helpful.

[Finn]

Sounds like a nice campaign you got going there

I thought Thorakitai were medium spearmen/skirmishers with mail armor adopted from the Romans?

Not according to our historians.

(Description by bucellarii)

The thorakitai (lit. 'breastplate wearers’) are mobile armoured infantry equipped with javelins and short two-edged swords for thrusting and slashing, who are able to fight effectively at close quarters protected by their thureoi. They wear a simple chiton (tunic) beneath a mail corselet. In addition to the thureos, protection is provided by an iron or bronze Hellenistic helmet (1 Macc. 6.35).

The emergence of unarmoured Hellenistic thureophoroi during the early third century was followed by the later recognition that these troops were at a disadvantage when closing with more heavily equipped enemy troops (Plut. Phil. 9.1). Whilst it is difficult to closely trace the development of a second class of thureos bearing infantry, this time equipped with body armour (thorakes), it seems clear that Hellenistic armies deployed these troops in the main battle-line as circumstances dictated. Such an interpretation is supported by Polybios' description (5.53.8) of Molon's army during his revolt against Antiokhos III. Molon's main battle-line in the decisive confrontation in 220 BCE was composed of ‘thureophoroi, galatians and generally all the heavy troops’. The thureophoroi in this passage are classed literally as ‘heavy’ infantry and therefore the likelihood of such troops being armoured is increased, at which point they can be more accurately labelled ‘thorakitai’.

Elsewhere Polybios describes the deployment of thorakitai in support of the Achaian light-armed during the same year (4.12.3), and their multi-purpose role at Mantineia in 207 BCE, at one point supporting the flank of the Achaian phalanx (11.11.4; 11.14.1; 11.15.5). The view that thorakitai were essentially armoured thureophoroi, is further supported by Polybios’ description of the Seleukid army’s crossing of the Elburz in 210 BCE (10.29.5-6).

Whilst the precise combat role of thorakitai during the third century remains a subject for debate, the brutal Roman victories at Kynoscephalae, Magnesia and Pydna, which so cruelly exposed the limitations of the ‘Macedonian phalanx’, doubtless caused the Hellenistic kingdoms to reconsider how thorakes adorned thureophoroi could be most effectively utilised on the battlefield. Consequently the five thousand men ‘armed after the Roman fashion and bearing breastplates of chain-armour’ who took part in the Seleukid military parade at Daphnai in 165 BCE (Polybios 30.25.3) might indicate the adoption of heavier javelins and scuta style shields, with swords rather than thrusting spears becoming the weapon of choice for close combat. Perhaps mail armour also became the norm. However whether a concerted attempt was made to imitate the flexible tactics of the Roman legion remains uncertain.