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Thread: historical accuracy of the sabaens???

  1. #1
    MAXlMUS's Avatar Decanus
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    Default historical accuracy of the sabaens???

    don't get me wrong, this mod is great and much more historically accurate than most other mods
    but when it comes to saba... was there even any research done? because the text sounds very very stereotypical and not very historically accurate
    The Arab people of Saba is a most reserved and notoriously eerie people. Living in the south of Arabia they are protected by the unrelenting desert to the north. Moving amongst the environment like ghosts they befuddle any army foolish enough to enter their domain with their vast expertise on desert warfare and ambushes. With the Kushites and Rich Egypt only a hop over short waters they can mount a full invasion without fearing for the protection of their homes.

    Their armies utilize the powerful and tall camels in the front line rather than in the baggage train. The distinctive smell frightens cavalry and lets Saba's camelry cut to shreds any opposing horsemen. Their fierce warriors hardened by years of scavenging and hunting in the brutal desert environment will not flee easily. And their archers can loose a devastating volley in the cruelest of desert winds. Saba is not a state to be trifled with.

    However the fertile lands of Arabia cannot maintain an empire for long, and if Saba has international aspirations they must seek to find new and more fertile lands. The soldiers of the desert will emerge from the fires of their harsh lives to devastate the luxurious towns of the urban civilizations. Their hearts forged in adversity will triumph over the decadence of the old empires!
    sorry i might sound like a douche, but i did a paper for uni last year about them. the main points:
    The Arab people of Saba is a most reserved and notoriously eerie people
    how could they be reserved? they engaged and controlled the transcontinental spice trade between india and the mediteranean by sea and land , and was by this that they acquired their wealth; it was only until the discovery of the monsoon winds by the roman merchants in around the first century a.d. which enabled the bypassing of their cities, and accelerated the gradual decline of saba, himyar, qataban and the smaller city states

    Moving amongst the environment like ghosts they befuddle any army foolish enough to enter their domain with their vast expertise on desert warfare and ambushes.
    the ruins of the sabaean capital, ma'rib:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    (walls of one section of the city)

    (ba'ran temple)

    the ruins are arguably not as impressive as those of the neighbouring cities, except for the temple

    the sabaeans relied on a complex "vassal" system wherein the northern nomadic tribes were engaged to offer the sabaean kings manpower for warfare, and probably were the ones used to man the trade caravans, loaded with frankincense and myrrh (worth their weight in gold, as they were used in most temples in antiquity, egyptian mesopotamian, hellenistic and later roman) going from south arabia to the north. however, the sabaeans proper were sedentary and lived in fortified cities such as ma'arib (the sabaean capital), or in the smaller vassal cities which each had it's king charged with supplying taxes and manpower to the sabaen king.

    Their armies utilize the powerful and tall camels in the front line rather than in the baggage train. The distinctive smell frightens cavalry and lets Saba's camelry cut to shreds any opposing horsemen.
    while the camel must have been as important for the nomadic tribes as the mogol horse was for mongols, the fact is that the breeding of the arabian horse originates from southern arabia; and in a sedentary environment, horses are always preferred to wage war over camels, for obvious reasons.

    Their fierce warriors hardened by years of scavenging and hunting in the brutal desert environment will not flee easily.
    the ruins of the great dam of ma'rib:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 









    unlike north arabia, south yemen was criss-crossed with rivers, and this was expecially true in ancient times. irrigation was thus possible, especially considering the mountainous nature of the region. many dams were built, but the largest one by far was the ma'rib dam, sometimes referred to as one of the engineering wonders of the ancient world. work began sometime in the 8th century b.c., and after several 'upgrades', it was over 600 meters long and 14 meters tall, irrigating over 25000 acres of land. it was this, and not the lucrative spice trade, which enabled the population of south arabia to become (relatively) large; and it was with the collapse(s) of the ma'rib dam in between the 3rd and 5th century a.dd. that led to the migration of most sabaeans out of arabia, and who branched out in several groups with the most consequential results being the establishment of the kingdoms of ghassan and lakhm, vassals of rome and persia.

    The soldiers of the desert will emerge from the fires of their harsh lives to devastate the luxurious towns of the urban civilizations.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 






    (some of these come from the rival kingdoms, qataban and hadhramaut)

    saba, and south arabia in general was wealthy thanks to the control of the spice trade; that's why the romans sent an expedition to conquer it during the reign of augustus (but it fell short). the roman name, arabia felix, means happy arabia (in reference to it's wealth). what stopped the saba and the other states during their high periods from becoming anything more then regional military powers was it's geographic location, it's relatively small population compared to other regions of the near east, it's lack of a strong central government (being more of a confederation than a centralized kingdom), and the fact that throughout most of it's history southern yemen was largely fragmented in different city-states which acted as counterweights to each other, where alliances would often shift; only a few sabaean kings managed to unify large areas, (taking on the honnorific titile 'muqarrib').

    Their hearts forged in adversity will triumph over the decadence of the old empires!
    but excluding the older civilizations such as egypt and the mesopotamian ones, saba was already old before either the persians or the greeks rose to prominence. it dates from at least the ninth century b.c. , and it's high period was sometime between 600 to 400 b.c.

    there
    Last edited by MAXlMUS; October 15, 2010 at 04:25 AM.

  2. #2
    Bull3pr00f de Bodemloze's Avatar Occasio mihi fertur
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    Default Re: historical accuracy of the sabaens???

    Well, I'm not the mod's historian; you'll have to talk to Rez for that, but I believe this text is just a placeholder
    And if it is perhaps you'd be willing to write a new one, since it would be nice to have a historical correct description

  3. #3

    Default Re: historical accuracy of the sabaens???

    Bull3tproof is right, pretty much everything we have for Saba is currently placeholder until we can get around to making them properly. The same goes for Kush and both Scythian factions.

    The information you have posted is of a great standard and will be very useful to us when we come to tackling this faction properly. As for the text you highlighted, it is indeed pretty shoddy but if you don't mind I can splice together your post to form the basis of a new description for RoP 3.

  4. #4
    MAXlMUS's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: historical accuracy of the sabaens???

    sure
    keep up the good work guys

  5. #5

    Default Re: historical accuracy of the sabaens???

    Or...you could save that text description for when I release my submod: Rise of Persian Mohammadeans and Other Swarthy Men and their Fight Against the Noble Greeks: Narrated by an 19th Century British Orientalist.


  6. #6
    Bull3pr00f de Bodemloze's Avatar Occasio mihi fertur
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    Default Re: historical accuracy of the sabaens???


    + rep

  7. #7

    Default Re: historical accuracy of the sabaens???

    Lol I would totally play that mod.

    Ok new plan, finish RoP then help make Fuzz's sub-mod.

  8. #8
    Anakarsis's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: historical accuracy of the sabaens???

    I supposed that Saba was a placeholder faction. Indeed all that Maximus said is true; South Yemen is "civilized" as far as archaeology knows since AT LEAST the sencond urban wave in the Old Bronze period (2500-2300 BC and there is testimonies of commerce with that region from Pre-Dinastic Mesopotamian sources even older than that) and tradition of city states came from there. In fact the system survived there while in its "bornplace" in Mesopotamia it became superseed by the empires (Assyrian, Babylonian, and then Persian), but isolation of the Sabaeans allowed them to keep it running. Relation with desert tribes was economically complementary and the "kings" keep both settled-agricultural and nomadic-pastoralist populations as vassals, a system similar to that of amorreans in early Siria and Palestine, common among nations where commerce and herdsmen were important part of economy.


    It seemed to me placeholder also because they dont have even the camel units they say they have LOL. They have only basic troops, mucho like both scythian factions, and look like they were not worked out yet.

  9. #9
    Bull3pr00f de Bodemloze's Avatar Occasio mihi fertur
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    Default Re: historical accuracy of the sabaens???

    Don't know if they will be done in V3. Perhaps they will be, because I have taught myself how to skin, so Rez doesn't have to do everything by himself any more, wich generally gets things done faster

  10. #10

    Default Re: historical accuracy of the sabaens???

    So far I've got some better placeholders for them (lately ive been trying to sort through a whole bunch of units for every faction). We won't have time to do the full research work-up before we release 3 and afterwards the scythians have priority. But the V3 placeholders are at least a bit more arabic.

  11. #11
    demagogos nicator's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: historical accuracy of the sabaens???

    Quote Originally Posted by rez View Post
    So far I've got some better placeholders for them (lately ive been trying to sort through a whole bunch of units for every faction). We won't have time to do the full research work-up before we release 3 and afterwards the scythians have priority. But the V3 placeholders are at least a bit more arabic.
    Looking forward to anything you are going to add to this great mod +plus rep for you modders and also for you MAXIMUS
    Last edited by demagogos nicator; October 25, 2010 at 03:01 PM.

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