Mass Effect 3

[Gaidin]

Indoctrination? It's introduced in ME1 already and quite clearly subverts the intention of strongwilled characters. I consider it ten times scarier when anyone can end up sabotaging the war effort without any affiliation to any organization but just because they ended up on the wrong side of a wall and got brainfried by some Banshee without anyone noticing. It's even picked up with the Leviathan DLC again. Absolutely zero exposition needed as it is part of the main plotline of the first game already. You suddenly have allied units go dark as or break down in chaos as indoctrinated people bring havoc to their command structure or special forces like Spectres, STGs or Alliance N7 - including people known to Shepard - who got picked off by the Reapers and turned to sabotage the war effort.

If told well you shouldn't have taken the entire game of Mass Effect 2 to try to explain Cerberus. In fact Cerberus of ME1 was ten times as plausible and scary because you didn't see them in the limelight but just the wacky stuff they were capable of and what they were willing to do to keep it quiet. Things like Thantopis turning on an Asari Councillor and other better liked characters suddenly being turned would have created a far better experience of paranoia.

So for main story quests you want, random groups we've never heard of before doing stuff? No thanks. I don't mind new things for the DLCs that are basically side quests or other sidequests that are already on the game which are an aside to the main story. But I don't want to have a totally new thing for the main story. That's why they used Cerberus.

[The Despondent Mind]

I just finished the trilogy , I kinda feel depressed now , it feels almost like an era of my life has ended .

[Slaytaninc]

I just finished the trilogy , I kinda feel depressed now , it feels almost like an era of my life has ended .

You could have just done what I did, and quit 3/4 of the way through ME3

[The Despondent Mind]

You could have just done what I did, and quit 3/4 of the way through ME3

The curiosity would have killed me .

Anyway, I think this has never happened to me ,since I finished ME3 I feel so nervous and lonely , I basically have no idea what to do with my life now .

[Tankfriend]

I did so on purpose. You didn't necessarily like her but this development kind of added tension that people who came into contact with Reapers are a liability.

Things like Thantopis turning on an Asari Councillor and other better liked characters suddenly being turned would have created a far better experience of paranoia.

Emphasis added. You mentioned Thanoptis in a context where it would have been nice for her to do something due to indoctrination, when, in fact, she did do something due to indoctrination, making the "would have been nice" completely unnecessary. Call me a grammar if you want.

[Captain Jin]

The curiosity would have killed me .

Anyway, I think this has never happened to me ,since I finished ME3 I feel so nervous and lonely , I basically have no idea what to do with my life now .

Yeah, it's that connection to the characters. And when there's no more you're like dang, what now?

[The Despondent Mind]

Yeah, it's that connection to the characters. And when there's no more you're like dang, what now?

Exactly . I could play the trilogy again but that would be a sad compromise , and there's no ****ing way I'm gonna look for minerals with the Mako again .

[Cold_Mac]

You could have just done what I did, and quit 3/4 of the way through ME3

I still maintain the view that 3/4 of Mass Effect are good and, in parts, brillant and equal to the pinnacle points of ME 1 & 2.
The catastrophic last missions (ridiculed the franchise, at least from London on) and the subtle, buried indoctrination made a mess of it. Appears to have needed at least two writing & production phases more.

Space kid & end was talked to death. It even has its own conspiracy theory.

[Legio]

I love Leviathan but wish it was a bit more fleshed out. I WANT 2 KNOW MOAR. :'(

[The Despondent Mind]

Yeah Leviathans were quite fascinating , I wish we could see them in the end battle .


Is it me or did the Nazis really made a bigger destruction in London then the Reapers ?

[Slaytaninc]

I still maintain the view that 3/4 of Mass Effect are good and, in parts, brillant and equal to the pinnacle points of ME 1 & 2.
The catastrophic last missions (ridiculed the franchise, at least from London on) and the subtle, buried indoctrination made a mess of it. Appears to have needed at least two writing & production phases more.

Space kid & end was talked to death. It even has its own conspiracy theory.

Alright, it's time to come out clean on this.

I only quit playing it so I could clean up my harddrive.

[Cold_Mac]

Alright, it's time to come out clean on this.

I only quit playing it so I could clean up my harddrive.

I just recently found the leaked cut-content - sounds like a combination of hustle & bustle and the lovely memory restrictions of consoles.
http://www.holdtheline.com/threads/d...were-cut.2073/

That Virmire and Collector-base endbattle would have been nice. Might have created a benefit for Jacob and James.

From one magnificient midway-triumph to a blurry, knotted cluster****-ending.

[Legio]

Yeah Leviathans were quite fascinating , I wish we could see them in the end battle .


Is it me or did the Nazis really made a bigger destruction in London then the Reapers ?

lol, that made me grin. We needed a multiplayer map for London though (and it's actually my least favorite MP map).

[Cold_Mac]

They didn't have the entire story and/or the ending figured out just a few months before final release, so my guess is that this is exactly what happened.

Which would underline their previous story-writing shortcomings.

ME1 was focussed on an authentic main plot, later dissolved as a subplot, but ME2 had a much less credible, smushed-in story about a faceless, distant manipulator that doesn't link up with the previous game.
Main difference for me is the different intro, as the destruction of Normandy I through an unknown enemy is much better than run-of-the-mill-soldier-that-just-saved-the-galaxy-twice-to-be-jailed Shepard that coincidently severed ties with every squad member with no apparent reason. Static character development over 3 plots, despite the journey is just bland. Every solution delivered is a far-fetched and appears constructed.

It would have been, retroperspectivly, very easy to implement the decision to recover/destroy the Collector Base for a different starting scenario. Main plot resets to ME1, cutting all ends with ME2.

Despite this result, I enjoyed the trilogy more than the much-lauded TES opponents, Skyrim/Oblivion. Wonderful characters, engrossing dialogues and decisions throughout the game - with a lesser percentage the longer you play each game to ensure a dramatic, if arcade, ending.
I may be too dumb to focus, but I only took notice of the shortcomings when they were major obstacles. Trees are more eye-catching than the forest itself.

Don't think the Extended Cut-endings are all that horrible, unacceptable ****.
ME excell(ed) at character-creation & narrative depth, and smaller, dramatic-focused stories. It looses orientation in the big picture.

Lost of the gaming industry.

[Mangalore]

So for main story quests you want, random groups we've never heard of before doing stuff? No thanks. I don't mind new things for the DLCs that are basically side quests or other sidequests that are already on the game which are an aside to the main story. But I don't want to have a totally new thing for the main story. That's why they used Cerberus.

They are not random! Spectres, STGs, N7s etc. are known and supposedly major players in the Mass Effect universe and you have characters in your crew who actually are among those groups aka have personal connections. You'd have far more connection points to weave your crew into the conflict.

What face do Cerberus mooks have? Kai Leng? No, thanks. Cerberus isn't any better than some faceless thugs. You are just telling yourself that. The Illusive Man, who cares about him? He is a non character, he never really was one. He just spouted party lines but you never actually see him do anything sensible that deserves respect or your acknowledgement. Martin Sheen's voice is the character, there is nothing behind that at all. Making some supposedly covert organization into a comic villain outfit is far worse and breaks immersion than the fact that you don't know every single Spectre, STG or N7 and what he's up to and why or that STGs might do stuff against everyone else's interest if it is in Salarian interest (which would kind of explain the Salarian's behaviour better in ME3) or that the Reapers might have subverted individuals to bring havoc to your defense efforts.

Have Ashley be turned and actually kill Anderson, have Mordin turn on you to protect Salarians, make Liara go behind your back to help Thessia. Have another Spectre foil your actions because he thinks your actions are harming his efforts to solve the big Reaper problem. That creates conflict. That's drama. Some random mooks who are explained to be nothing better than zombies in mission 1 make very terrible opponents because you don't care about shooting them.

PS: Heck, Brooks had as much character as TIM inside two minutes of exposition. It's a shame she was just a plot point in a forgettable side quest. And the problem of that Merc outfit mooks were thst they were just like enhanced Cerberus mooks with as much impact. Although at least their intro was kind of funny... unlike those Cerberus mooks

[ggggtotalwarrior]

I just remembered this, but did anyone else feel when playing ME1 that all the party characters were like the exact same characters as those in the KoTOR series? (although, to be fair, one was actually made by Obsidian)

Canderous Ordo- Mercenary/Leader of a slowly dying race of warlike/mercenary people who once led a war against the rest of the galaxy, leading to their downfall.

Urdnot Wrex- Mercenary/Leader of a slowly dying race of warlike/mercenary people who once led a war against the rest of the galaxy, leading to their downfall.

Kaidan Alenko- Nice guy soldier who is good with tech, voiced by Raphael Sbarge. Party member at game start.

Carth Onasi- Nice guy soldier who is good with tech, voiced by Raphael Sbarge. Party member at game start.

Jeff "Joker" Moreau- Wise cracking pilot.

Atton Rand- Wise cracking pilot.

There are a few more, but is anyone else noticing a pattern in the personalities of characters, races, etc. in Bioware games? It's like the same ideas in slightly different settings.

[Cold_Mac]

They are not random! Spectres, STGs, N7s etc. are known and supposedly major players in the Mass Effect universe and you have characters in your crew who actually are among those groups aka have personal connections. You'd have far more connection points to weave your crew into the conflict.

What face do Cerberus mooks have? Kai Leng? No, thanks. Cerberus isn't any better than some faceless thugs. You are just telling yourself that. The Illusive Man, who cares about him? He is a non character, he never really was one. He just spouted party lines but you never actually see him do anything sensible that deserves respect or your acknowledgement. Martin Sheen's voice is the character, there is nothing behind that at all. Making some supposedly covert organization into a comic villain outfit is far worse and breaks immersion than the fact that you don't know every single Spectre, STG or N7 and what he's up to and why or that STGs might do stuff against everyone else's interest if it is in Salarian interest (which would kind of explain the Salarian's behaviour better in ME3) or that the Reapers might have subverted individuals to bring havoc to your defense efforts.

Have Ashley be turned and actually kill Anderson, have Mordin turn on you to protect Salarians, make Liara go behind your back to help Thessia. Have another Spectre foil your actions because he thinks your actions are harming his efforts to solve the big Reaper problem. That creates conflict. That's drama. Some random mooks who are explained to be nothing better than zombies in mission 1 make very terrible opponents because you don't care about shooting them.

PS: Heck, Brooks had as much character as TIM inside two minutes of exposition. It's a shame she was just a plot point in a forgettable side quest. And the problem of that Merc outfit mooks were thst they were just like enhanced Cerberus mooks with as much impact. Although at least their intro was kind of funny... unlike those Cerberus mooks

+ rep

Swap Dr. Eva with Miranda Lawson for a start - hardly worse than the recooked "Oh my daddy is sooooo bad, he works with Cerberus now! And has my sister btw"-plot.
Make Jacob turn against you when you return the Normandy to the Alliance.

Cerberus is devoid of a real cutting-edge profile.

[Cold_Mac]

There is a full documentary about the indoctrination theory


Admire the work but no convincing points for me.

Largly consists of constructed/filling plotholes. Puts sense into meaningless encounters and streamlining it by force. Really condescending in the end.
A la "It seems that Harbinger is deliberatly waiting for Shepard to come close enough for shooting" for the atrocious final mission.

Destroy ending all the way, by the by.

[HunterKYA]

I just remembered this, but did anyone else feel when playing ME1 that all the party characters were like the exact same characters as those in the KoTOR series? (although, to be fair, one was actually made by Obsidian)

Canderous Ordo- Mercenary/Leader of a slowly dying race of warlike/mercenary people who once led a war against the rest of the galaxy, leading to their downfall.

Urdnot Wrex- Mercenary/Leader of a slowly dying race of warlike/mercenary people who once led a war against the rest of the galaxy, leading to their downfall.

Kaidan Alenko- Nice guy soldier who is good with tech, voiced by Raphael Sbarge. Party member at game start.

Carth Onasi- Nice guy soldier who is good with tech, voiced by Raphael Sbarge. Party member at game start.

Jeff "Joker" Moreau- Wise cracking pilot.

Atton Rand- Wise cracking pilot.

There are a few more, but is anyone else noticing a pattern in the personalities of characters, races, etc. in Bioware games? It's like the same ideas in slightly different settings.

I recognized the connection between Canderous and Wrex a while back. BW needs to develop a new formula for their characters, because when people can spot a repitious cycle of using the same character types over different game franchises, it's going to get stale sooner or later.

[The Despondent Mind]

The single biggest thing that pissed me off in me3 , is the ww2 turret used by the Geth,Cerberus and Turians .