Mass Effect 3

[Legio]

Yeah, Kaidan's incessant whining made Mars such a chore.

[Gaidin]

Good points there Jin, especially the idea of a crew member betraying you in favour of Cerberus and replacing Kai-Leng (who was a character, anyway). The main gripe I had with Cerberus in ME3 was that they got way too much screentime and importance throughout the story, though. They would've been entirely fine as an intermediary obstacle to take out (say, 50-75% into the story) and only turn up as a few remnants later on, but instead, they got a center stage position right next to the Reapers. Kind of weird when you're building up the Reapers as the true big bad from the beginning.

Well, as Jin points out, that's because the Reapers were using them. It's totally appropriate for them to get center stage. There's basically three major war levels, and three major "other" levels. The three major war levels are legit Us vs the Reapers battles. In between them, it's the Reapers using a corrupted Cerberus in operations that wouldn't make sense if Cerberus weren't corrupted. A good bit of the side missions are raids on Cerberus facilities that explain how Cerberus got corrupted and lo and behold, it makes a bit more sense why they are doing things that just wouldn't make sense for them to do before Mass Effect 3.

Sometimes sidequests are pretty key to understanding things, but they're never particularly necessary to getting a grasp on what's happening. You don't particularly have to understand why Cerberus is shooting at you to shoot back. You might want to, but gun triggers don't work that way, especially once you see The Illusive Man at the end of the game and a light bulb would click on anyway whether you've done the sidequests or not.

[Tankfriend]

I know that it makes sense to some degree, of course. It's just that I felt like they took up too much of a center position in the overall context.

[Gaidin]

Who would you replace Cerberus with when the Reapers want a corrupted human looking group messing with the infrastructure behind the lines of the war? Remember, you now have to spend a bunch of time on exposition explaining where this group comes from when you have an entire game in Mass Effect 2 explaining the guts of Cerberus and The Illusive Man's ambitions regarding Reaper technology.

[Captain Jin]

Like, wow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANjS1...Ag2ugCG53YZ5Ag

[Tankfriend]

Who would you replace Cerberus with when the Reapers want a corrupted human looking group messing with the infrastructure behind the lines of the war? Remember, you now have to spend a bunch of time on exposition explaining where this group comes from when you have an entire game in Mass Effect 2 explaining the guts of Cerberus and The Illusive Man's ambitions regarding Reaper technology.

I wouldn't outright replace Cerberus. That would be down the other extreme and not a good idea, either.

As for what I would have liked seeing: More exposition as to how the general population is hit by indoctrination and subversion outside of Cerberus.
Like random people getting indoctrinated and trying to smuggle dragons teeth/Reaper artifacts somewhere to indoctrinate more people, military units turning against their own allies, people running amok in a killing frenzy, sudden spread of suspicious new cults and things like that.
Covering these things with a lot more material (news casts, ingame messages, random conversations, maybe a few sidequests) than it was in the actual game would allow Cerberus to keep the position it has, while also making absolutely clear that there's far more going on, and that Cerberus themselves are still a small (if powerful) piece of the puzzle, rather than the single key to subversive activities. Another good thing is that given you're working with the general population or groups/entities that are already known (like the military), you wouldn't have to do a lot of extra explaining in the end, either.

[Captain Jin]

Yeah that definitely could have made some interesting side missions. Dealing with a weird cult that's worshipping the Reapers and maybe kidnapping people to 'sacrifice' to the Reapers and crap. Or taking out a turian unit that's been indoctrinated and is causing problems. Maybe they're a turian cabal, so powerful biotic troops and it has some repercussions or hard choices you have to make that affect Garrus or at least weigh heavily upon him.

[Legio]

That would have been FABTASTIC.

[Sir Adrian]

Yeah, Kaidan's incessant whining made Mars such a chore.

Rule number one of playing ME: Always sacrifice Kaidan.

[Stavroforos]

Rule number one of playing ME: Always sacrifice Kaidan.

I prefer Kaidan over Ashley.

[Tankfriend]

Please don't fire up the Kaidan-Ashley war again. Just play it twice and sacrifice either once, and you're done.

[Shneckie]

I hated Ashley during my first ME3 playthrough, ***** just wouldn't stop hounding me about Cerberus and Miranda trololol. Started from the first game again saving Kaidan, he proved just as irritating, had Garrus shoot him. Seriously, the pretty much identical paths that both of them treads along in ME3 kinda undermines their characters as a whole. To see two completely different characters from the first game, turn out to be the exact same whinging emos in the third, it just makes them both seem artificial and as a whole poorly written. I think they are both one of the poorer elements of the series.

[Stavroforos]

I think there were interesting divergent paths their stories could have taken after ME1, rather than basically only have different reproductive organs to tell them apart.

Kaidan could have been in charge of some Alliance biotic school, or be on the trail of some person who is kidnapping biotics or something. Ashley, who was a sergeant, could have simply been reassigned to another unit which has been busy fighting Cerberus and has lost many members of her unit, thus actually having a reason to hate you for being with them. Kaidan's path could have taken him to one similar to the Cerberus quests in ME1, and eventually his biotics and maybe he himself are captured by Cerberus and tortured for their biotic secrets. Again, gives you a good reason to hate Cerberus and thus dislike what Shepard was doing.

[Legio]

I like that.

[Captain Jin]

I think there were interesting divergent paths their stories could have taken after ME1, rather than basically only have different reproductive organs to tell them apart.

Kaidan could have been in charge of some Alliance biotic school, or be on the trail of some person who is kidnapping biotics or something. Ashley, who was a sergeant, could have simply been reassigned to another unit which has been busy fighting Cerberus and has lost many members of her unit, thus actually having a reason to hate you for being with them. Kaidan's path could have taken him to one similar to the Cerberus quests in ME1, and eventually his biotics and maybe he himself are captured by Cerberus and tortured for their biotic secrets. Again, gives you a good reason to hate Cerberus and thus dislike what Shepard was doing.

Well they sort of hint at that in ME3 with Kaidan. They said he was teaching students that became a part of 1st Special Operations Biotic Company or something like that, but I agree that it would have been cool if they each had their own entirely separate side missions that you encountered them on depending on who you saved.

[Tankfriend]

Ashley, who was a sergeant, could have simply been reassigned to another unit which has been busy fighting Cerberus and has lost many members of her unit

Again, just like in ME1?
Give her a break and let her unit actually survive and do something for a change, possibly thanks to the combat experience she gathered when fighting with Shepard. She could get an "advisory" capacity similar to Garrus.

[Stavroforos]

Again, just like in ME1?
Give her a break and let her unit actually survive and do something for a change, possibly thanks to the combat experience she gathered when fighting with Shepard. She could get an "advisory" capacity similar to Garrus.

Well, maybe not everyone dies. Maybe she leads a well-organized and highly successful raid into some Cerberus lab or training facility or something. I just think that her path and Kaidan's path should have been different, considering they both have different experience, different ranks, and different capabilities.

[Mangalore]

Who would you replace Cerberus with when the Reapers want a corrupted human looking group messing with the infrastructure behind the lines of the war? Remember, you now have to spend a bunch of time on exposition explaining where this group comes from when you have an entire game in Mass Effect 2 explaining the guts of Cerberus and The Illusive Man's ambitions regarding Reaper technology.

Indoctrination? It's introduced in ME1 already and quite clearly subverts the intention of strongwilled characters. I consider it ten times scarier when anyone can end up sabotaging the war effort without any affiliation to any organization but just because they ended up on the wrong side of a wall and got brainfried by some Banshee without anyone noticing. It's even picked up with the Leviathan DLC again. Absolutely zero exposition needed as it is part of the main plotline of the first game already. You suddenly have allied units go dark as or break down in chaos as indoctrinated people bring havoc to their command structure or special forces like Spectres, STGs or Alliance N7 - including people known to Shepard - who got picked off by the Reapers and turned to sabotage the war effort.

If told well you shouldn't have taken the entire game of Mass Effect 2 to try to explain Cerberus. In fact Cerberus of ME1 was ten times as plausible and scary because you didn't see them in the limelight but just the wacky stuff they were capable of and what they were willing to do to keep it quiet. Things like Thantopis turning on an Asari Councillor and other better liked characters suddenly being turned would have created a far better experience of paranoia.

[Tankfriend]

Things like Thantopis turning on an Asari Councillor

Of all the characters you had to pick her...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

ANN Alert: New Article on "Indoctrination"

From: Alliance News Network Information Partners

Thessia - Asari scientist Rana Thanoptis has died in custody, allegedly committing suicide after she was arrested for the murder of multiple asari military officials.

Prior to her death, investigators said Thanoptis spoke of voices in her head, which they believed to be indicative of her indoctrination. The voices foretold the ascension of the asari--and told Thanoptis that anyone fighting the Reapers "needed to die."

Thanoptis worked for a top-secret project for former Spectre Saren Arterius several years ago, where she likely became indoctrinated. She received a pardon from the asari government in exchange for providing research assistance on Reaper technology.

Thanoptis was believed responsible for planting a makeshift device that detonated at a research center, killing five visiting asari military officers along with four civilians. The attack seriously wounded a dozen more and caused significant damage to the facility.

Investigators say they are not seeking any more suspects in the case.

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Rana_Thanoptis

[Mangalore]

Of all the characters you had to pick her...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Rana_Thanoptis

I did so on purpose. You didn't necessarily like her but this development kind of added tension that people who came into contact with Reapers are a liability.