Mass Effect 3

[Legio]

According to the art book, he was going to be a boss. Brute-sized and everything!

[Katsumoto]

Anderson is a good question, but regarding TIM, here's the thing you're going to realize one day, especially if you actually write something. Not every character in a story knows everything. And as the gamer from Shephard's point of view, all you know is that TIM is there. How he got there is pretty damn irrelevant as you don't know how nor should you. You've got other, more important things on your mind. All that matters to you at the moment is he's there and that's what you have to deal with. If you have time later, you can figure out how he got there. It turns out, with the endings, any of them, you don't really have time for it then either, but that's neither here nor there.

Gee, thanks Pa.

With TIM the bigger issue is what the heck is game plan was. Last thing you see of him from the Cerberus HQ claiming smugly that he is winning despite losing everything, then he screws everyone over probably killing 13+ million people and then he dies not doing anything that justifies his actions from his madman genocide to his horrific disfigurement.

He serves sadly no purpose for occupying the better part of two games. You could cut him out and it literary wouldn't change anything. Anderson and Shepard could be bleeding out from their wounds anyhow and the real end comes from nothing anyway.

Yeah, very true. Just an unnecessary, incoherent distraction. I just found it odd that amongst what is presumably the largest force ever assembled in galactic history, this 'Illusive Man', apparently by himself (though even with Reaper help it's a bit of a stretch) can just slip into Alliance et al's main objective without anyone noticing. Also with Anderson, surely if he was able to follow Shepard, other, younger troopers could too. I know these are minor issues but it's sloppy nonetheless.

[Gaidin]

With TIM the bigger issue is what the heck is game plan was. Last thing you see of him from the Cerberus HQ claiming smugly that he is winning despite losing everything, then he screws everyone over probably killing 13+ million people and then he dies not doing anything that justifies his actions from his madman genocide to his horrific disfigurement.

The purpose of TIM is he's the corruption of the Reapers up close and personal. We see it for one DLC in the Doctor when Shephard has to improvise a solution to stop them from entering the Galaxy a few months before ME3. What we get out of him is what happens to a character everyone is personally familiar with when you start really messing with Reaper technology on a personal and physical level. The Reapers had him in the bag, and he didn't even realize it. His game plan wasn't really all that important because by the end he was a relatively certifiable nutcase anyways. He thought he was winning. And from a story and character standpoint that's all that really matters. When you start talking from someone's psychology, especially when they've had their mind screwed with and may not realize it, it does not necessarily have to make sense to the outside observer. Humans are by nature illogical beings. Logic is only there part of the time when they're sane. Once they're crazy, logic is gone.

He serves sadly no purpose for occupying the better part of two games. You could cut him out and it literary wouldn't change anything. Anderson and Shepard could be bleeding out from their wounds anyhow and the real end comes from nothing anyway.

He's literally the MacGuffin that pulls him out of the politics of the Citadel and has him start doing worthwhile stuff against the Collectors in Mass Effect 2. Could they have done it differently? Sure, but then you'd probably be ******** about that new character instead. That's not exactly a discussion I'm interested in theorizing about with you. They kind of needed something to yank Shephard out of assignments literally designed to keep him out on the edge of Alliance/Citadel space to keep him and his craziness out of the government's way.

As for his craziness(I mean that; craziness, you ain't going to understand it nor are you meant to) in the third game, that's explained above. That was going to happen to somebody that the player knew, had some sort of stake in, and would've either shook their head at or facepalmed at one of the two. That's literally just good writing to make the Reaper corruption more personal on a story level. We could've seen it done to Anderson or Hackett instead I guess.

As for the endings. Eh. I have no stake in those. I just have no problems with TIM as used.

[Mangalore]

@Gaidin: You are explaining it from the storywriting vantage point which is fine but says nothing about the implmentation. To say someone was bound to go crazy is not saying about how he was portrayed. Saren had the exactly same story but we get why Saren does his stuff even though it is far more direct corruption than TIM. TIM is just there and then gets in the way. Saren gets in the way but wants to get something done. There's a difference.

And with purpose I meant the ME3 end game aka why he is there over two games when his actions amount to nothing. That's not a cautionary tale. As said, he is just in the way to actually get some real time on the main plot done. For a cautionary tale you'd need a character you actually connect with. Tali, Garrus, Ashley, that level. TIM is impersonal. You get closer to Anderson or even Hackett.

[Gaidin]

delete because board is crazy

[Gaidin]

What? Did you think whoever had the power to steal a Spectre, however it was done, in Mass Effect 2 was going to just disappear in Mass Effect 3? Please. Let's get real.

It didn't matter if it was TIM doing what he did or someone more along the lines of what you want with a method you'd want, once Shephard started defying that person at the end of Mass Effect 2, that person was going to start trying to put Shephard down in Mass Effect 3 just because Shephard was an ungrateful little **** if for no other reason.

And I didn't say cautionary tale. I just said up close and personal. As in a character you'd experienced. Not someone on some other world you work with for one damn mission. TIM was the character you know so you see what the Reaper corruption does to the people you know. He wasn't meant to be a true tragedy or cautionary tale. Just slightly more than the Borg assimilation of a planet. TIM is supposed to have us go '****ing idiot'. Legion and Mordin Solus are the tragedies.

[Slaytaninc]

Mass Effect 3 kinda skipped ME2 anyways, as you can finish off loyal to Cerberus is you choose so, yet even if you do, bam, they're your enemy again.

Pretty much no matter what you do in the previous games, everything is reset.

Although I'm sure everyone's already complained about that part enough.

[Captain Jin]

So apparently the real story of ME3 was supposed to be about Dark Matter? And about how it consumes everything because of mankind's use of it and that the Reapers come in and reap everything in order to preserve the universe or something? You guys heard about this? Originally the endings were supposed to be, destroy Reapers and figure way to fix Dark matter issue, assimilate and have green eyes and glowing skin or refuse and get slurped up by giant Reaper straws. Or something like that.

[Gaidin]

Sure, if they'd be willing to make at least five games at the rate they were solving problems. It would take two games to legitimately beat the Reapers and not just BS something like ME3 did. One game to seize the initiative so to speak(ME3), another to win the war(ME4), and another to do the functional equivalent of Break Into the Reaper Lab and Fix Dark Matter(ME5). At least that would be a functional story structure for a game series.

But the problem is they just BSed something.

Even if it was Dark Matter and not what they did in ME3, if they only did it in one game, manage to beat a force that great(literally, a Force Majeure with how powerful the Reapers were) and solve the galaxy's problem, it was going to be total BS.

[Razvus]

So apparently the real story of ME3 was supposed to be about Dark Matter? And about how it consumes everything because of mankind's use of it and that the Reapers come in and reap everything in order to preserve the universe or something? You guys heard about this? Originally the endings were supposed to be, destroy Reapers and figure way to fix Dark matter issue, assimilate and have green eyes and glowing skin or refuse and get slurped up by giant Reaper straws. Or something like that.

Yeah, I heard about that. And honestly, even though a lot of people praise this as being a lot better than anything... I'm glad they didn't go with it. Who the hell wants to battle Dark Matter?

[Katsumoto]

"Keep it simple, stupid."

That's just what they should've done, as someone mentioned previously (The Dude perhaps), just have the Reapers be straight-up evil. Protheans made them, the superior Reaper AI rebels, destroys its creator, goes on a cycle of continuous evolution by harvesting civilizations. Fancy it up a bit if necessary, philosophical dilemma of creator vs created, father vs child etc etc, whatever whatever. Mass Effect was always about choice and characters anyway. It's been discussed to death I know but holy balls writing a satisfying conclusion would not have been difficult.

[Stavroforos]

So apparently the real story of ME3 was supposed to be about Dark Matter? And about how it consumes everything because of mankind's use of it and that the Reapers come in and reap everything in order to preserve the universe or something? You guys heard about this? Originally the endings were supposed to be, destroy Reapers and figure way to fix Dark matter issue, assimilate and have green eyes and glowing skin or refuse and get slurped up by giant Reaper straws. Or something like that.

I personally thought that that was the direction the story was going to go. The Haestrom part of ME2 and its volatile sun made me think that they were setting it up for ME3 and putting it into the plotline. I don't know if I'm disappointed that they went with the story they did, though I'm leaning more towards a yes, I am.

Anyway, I just saw some Mass Effect porn today.

[Legio]

Only today? Where have you been, sweetie?!

Has anyone tried the MEHEM ending "mods"? They make 'em happier, but I don't know if they address the larger questions, really. And since we're all talking about the ending...

LOTS of crap about dark energy in ME2, though. The Quarian you rescue in one of the first missions babbles about the Collectors giving off dark energy.

[Gaidin]

I personally thought that that was the direction the story was going to go. The Haestrom part of ME2 and its volatile sun made me think that they were setting it up for ME3 and putting it into the plotline. I don't know if I'm disappointed that they went with the story they did, though I'm leaning more towards a yes, I am.

Anyway, I just saw some Mass Effect porn today.

I don't know. They spent one mission on Dark Matter, and that was more a personal thing for Talia's fleet. They spent more time on the series with the robots.

[Stavroforos]

Only today? Where have you been, sweetie?!

Has anyone tried the MEHEM ending "mods"? They make 'em happier, but I don't know if they address the larger questions, really. And since we're all talking about the ending...

LOTS of crap about dark energy in ME2, though. The Quarian you rescue in one of the first missions babbles about the Collectors giving off dark energy.

Clearly living a sheltered existence

I don't know. They spent one mission on Dark Matter, and that was more a personal thing for Talia's fleet. They spent more time on the series with the robots.

Well, I get why the mission was there, it just seemed to me at the time that the events you were stumbling upon were going to be more significant.

Though to be honest, I don't think any explanation of the Reapers would have satisfied me, since they really overawed me in ME1. Having them just be resource collectors....eh.

[Gaidin]

Having them just be resource collectors....eh.

In the end every race is a resource collector.

[saxdude]

They could have just been *******s, I would have been fine with that explanation.

[Facupay]

After more than a year I think we can all agree that the ending was a disaster and the massive *****storm that ensued was justified.

It wasn't so hard to make a good ending, the traditional good and bad endings or something like DAO would have been enough, but Bioware tried to be edgy with the pretentious "deep" ending, but it was garbage filled with plot holes with no closure or choice from the player.

[Mangalore]

Sure, if they'd be willing to make at least five games at the rate they were solving problems. It would take two games to legitimately beat the Reapers and not just BS something like ME3 did. One game to seize the initiative so to speak(ME3), another to win the war(ME4), and another to do the functional equivalent of Break Into the Reaper Lab and Fix Dark Matter(ME5). At least that would be a functional story structure for a game series.
...

They simply had to bring an explanation or just assurement that the Reapers are stuck in Darkspace without help from inside the galaxy. Given Sovereign needed several centuries(? I think, the cycle was meant to start far sooner than it did per ME1 statements) to figure out that the original plan failed and what to do about it it wouldn't be farfetched. Make them the demons from hell and not make it Shepard's job to stop the demons but close all portals from the underworld. Keeps them enigmatic, keeps them as plot fodder, creates challenges that can be limited to realistic levels (aka not defeating the Reapers but prevent some kind of plot/conspiracy/conflict)

The dark matter/energy story is as bad as what we got in my opinion, let alone total BS science. It still leaves the Reapers kill everyone for their salvation because of some random perceived threat none that probably is illogical or in violation of basic science. ME is not really hard SF but they use too much explanation and exposition about tech and science to justify their space magic to just wing it.

[Mangalore]

What? Did you think whoever had the power to steal a Spectre, however it was done, in Mass Effect 2 was going to just disappear in Mass Effect 3? Please. Let's get real.

TIM doesn't steal a Spectre, he collects a popsicle orbiting an uninhabited planet none wants. What kind of power do you need for that? A shop. Wow. Let's stay real here.

It didn't matter if it was TIM doing what he did or someone more along the lines of what you want with a method you'd want, once Shephard started defying that person at the end of Mass Effect 2, that person was going to start trying to put Shephard down in Mass Effect 3 just because Shephard was an ungrateful little **** if for no other reason.

Which is something to be solved inside 15 minutes, maybe as an intro, not as 50+% of the main plot, obstructing the main plot without adding anything to the main plot. I frankly wanted to shoot TIM inside 5 minutes of ME2 and couldn't so the wait and fact that he was constantly in the way for no narratic gain was aggravating.

And I didn't say cautionary tale. I just said up close and personal. As in a character you'd experienced. Not someone on some other world you work with for one damn mission. TIM was the character you know so you see what the Reaper corruption does to the people you know. He wasn't meant to be a true tragedy or cautionary tale. Just slightly more than the Borg assimilation of a planet. TIM is supposed to have us go '****ing idiot'. Legion and Mordin Solus are the tragedies.

You are describing a cautionary tale. You don't have to like the person that it happens to. The thing is that TIM behaves so insanely before being corrupted that's it's not really distinguishable from how he behaves later. You have no clue how thing work. It's not like you have a deep characterization of Hackett or Anderson, you just might not be as inclined to shoot them but feel sorry for their corruption. With TIM it's not really any felt corruption, he's just ******* crazy as always.