Stainless Steel 6.3 & 6.4 Suggestions

[Serbian Hussar]

What was going through the minds of Chuck Norris' victims before they died? His shoe.

Good one +rep

[Strategos Autokrator]

Maybe you should make it so that one of the generals emerge as the the new leader of the faction if all the family members die. Every time I play, the Crusader state will be annihilated because all their family members are in Jerusalem during Jihad. Annoying..

Could someone do something about spear militia. They look terrible - especially the spearhead on their spears. The spearheads on the spears the Breeland militia? uses in TATW looks great. Maybe you could make something like that.

Then we have the Light Men-At-Arms, Feudal Foot Knights, Foot Men-At-Arms and Armored Swordmen - problem. Armored Swordmen have mail and a gambeson/brigandine, and appears less armored than Feudal Foot Knights who have a silver upgrade - but they have 12 in armor stats whereas Feudal Foot Knights have 8? That's kind of unrealistic. I'd suggest a complete rework of the roster. Especially the skins. Do we really need 4 different Sword-units when you play as England? I would first rename the Light Men-At-Arms unit to simply Men-At-Arms and rename the existing Men-At-Arms unit to Mounted Men-At-Arms. Then, if possible, merge it with Foot Men-At-Arms and give each armor upgrade more stats. I guess that would effect all other units too, which disqualify it as an option? Anyway, there's only one upgrade on existing Light Men-At-Arms. Maybe there should be two more?

It's not very realistic that Foot Men-At-Arms reach the same armor level as Armored Swordmen, who represent the rich upper class, and even appear in the game years ahead of Armored Swordmen. Maybe Feudal Foot Knights should be removed from the game's pool earlier on and replaced with Armored Swordmen and Foot Men-At-Arms merged together, renamed as Swordmen, and starting with 9 (partial plate?) as armor-stats, with upgrade possibility of 10, 11, 12. Anyway, something has to be done.

[Polycarpe]

Maybe you should make it so that one of the generals emerge as the the new leader of the faction if all the family members die. Every time I play, the Crusader state will be annihilated because all their family members are in Jerusalem during Jihad. Annoying..

Could someone do something about spear militia. They look terrible - especially the spearhead on their spears. The spearheads on the spears the Breeland militia? uses in TATW looks great. Maybe you could make something like that.

Then we have the Light Men-At-Arms, Feudal Foot Knights, Foot Men-At-Arms and Armored Swordmen - problem. Armored Swordmen have mail and a gambeson/brigandine, and appears less armored than Feudal Foot Knights who have a silver upgrade - but they have 12 in armor stats whereas Feudal Foot Knights have 8? That's kind of unrealistic. I'd suggest a complete rework of the roster. Especially the skins. Do we really need 4 different Sword-units when you play as England? I would first rename the Light Men-At-Arms unit to simply Men-At-Arms and rename the existing Men-At-Arms unit to Mounted Men-At-Arms. Then, if possible, merge it with Foot Men-At-Arms and give each armor upgrade more stats. I guess that would effect all other units too, which disqualify it as an option? Anyway, there's only one upgrade on existing Light Men-At-Arms. Maybe there should be two more?

It's not very realistic that Foot Men-At-Arms reach the same armor level as Armored Swordmen, who represent the rich upper class, and even appear in the game years ahead of Armored Swordmen. Maybe Feudal Foot Knights should be removed from the game's pool earlier on and replaced with Armored Swordmen and Foot Men-At-Arms merged together, renamed as Swordmen, and starting with 9 (partial plate?) as armor-stats, with upgrade possibility of 10, 11, 12. Anyway, something has to be done.

The armored swordsmen is more or less useful in SS imo. I just remove them simply or merging them to do a superior men-at-arm. Your call.

[Waffen9999]

This is just something I noticed with regards to Mailed Knights. At a castle level you can recruit them, takes a long time but you can do it, all well and good. However, you can only recruit mounted ones. You have to wait till Fortress level to recruit dismounted ones. Why? It doesn't make a lot of sense. Given the length of time it can take now to get a castle to fortress level basically means by the time you can do it, it's pointless as I believe also at fortress level you can recruit dismounted Feudal Knights anyways.

[Point Blank]

There is a mod now that allows factions to re-emerge.
Frenchy has done some re-work of Spear Militia using TATW units.
Agree that visual AS model is not very consistent.
AS armor level is 11, DFK is 6 + 1 defense, both +2 if mounted on a barded horse.
Each unit can have only 3 upgrades so we can't have all upgrades on a single unit, however we could give the Light MAA 2 more upgrades.
The names should be more consistent yes.
In next RC lower-quality units will have armor upgrades available later than high-quality units, ie MAA will appear later than presently and will upgrade to full plate later than AS. MAA currently appear at the same time as AS (HALF_PLATE_ARMOR event).

[beckyolt]

Good point, I agree. It's like the armies are made up of Chuck Norrises with balls of steel :

Ye, a pity it'll never be implemented. I doubt very much the modders dig through all these suggestions lol. But it's pretty annoying to have to loss at least 25% of your army every time you fight a battle even if you win. Those were the loser side's losses in real life!

[bɑne]

I doubt very much the modders dig through all these suggestions lol.

It helps to check on the topics like this daily, makes for a much easier read. That said I agree - I wouldn't dig through this topic from the beginning either, good suggestions get noticed and noted as they come.

[Ferdiad]

This is just something I noticed with regards to Mailed Knights. At a castle level you can recruit them, takes a long time but you can do it, all well and good. However, you can only recruit mounted ones. You have to wait till Fortress level to recruit dismounted ones. Why? It doesn't make a lot of sense. Given the length of time it can take now to get a castle to fortress level basically means by the time you can do it, it's pointless as I believe also at fortress level you can recruit dismounted Feudal Knights anyways.

I do beleive it's an oversight, some submods do fix it though.

[Strategos Autokrator]

There is a mod now that allows factions to re-emerge.
Frenchy has done some re-work of Spear Militia using TATW units.
Agree that visual AS model is not very consistent.
AS armor level is 11, DFK is 6 + 1 defense, both +2 if mounted on a barded horse.
Each unit can have only 3 upgrades so we can't have all upgrades on a single unit, however we could give the Light MAA 2 more upgrades.
The names should be more consistent yes.
In next RC lower-quality units will have armor upgrades available later than high-quality units, ie MAA will appear later than presently and will upgrade to full plate later than AS. MAA currently appear at the same time as AS (HALF_PLATE_ARMOR event).

Interesting. Looking forward to it. What armor do you plan for LMAA to have? About the same upgrade as the DFK? Coat of Plate and Partial plate? LMAA start with armor level 5? DFK start with level 6?

Regarding the visual models, maybe LMAA should have different Kettle hats and maybe some Nasal helmets/Cervellieres, like basic Armored Swordsmen have. And maybe DFK should use some Bascinet helmets on the second upgrade like Foot Men-At-Arms do. I think DFK uses rather cumbersome Great Helmets on both first, second and third upgrade. Armored Swordsmen have Great Helmets all the way on their upgrades too. They too should maybe use Bascinet. Some of the skins look great though, they just have to be rearranged between the Sword-wielding units to make them more consistent.

By the way, those Urban Militia units looks rather heavy armored in comparison to elite units such as DFK you have available at the same time frame. Looks like some 14th - 15th century units sent back to the end of the 13th century.

[Point Blank]

Next upgrade for LMAAA would be coat of plates. Depends on what models would be available for further upgrades but yes it would be to partial plate.

LMAA start with light mail, DFK start with heavy mail. As a non-elite unit, LMAA will have access to armor upgrades later than DFK.

I'll have a look at the DFK models but I don't have much time to be messing about with models too much.

Which Urban Militia? There are a few. The NE Urban Militia start with leather, the Militia Sergeants start with brigandine.

[Strategos Autokrator]

Ok. I meant Urban Spear Militia. Sorry. When they have silver armor upgrades they look quite ahead of their time.

It's mind-boggling that modding is done by so many and almost non of them have rearranged/added new unit skins to make units appear more consistent in relation to time period, quality and economic advantage. At least they're not in SS 6.4.

That's my advice. Take it or leave it. Would have done it myself if i knew how to.

[Point Blank]

Urban Spear Militia silver upgrade is brigandine. As far as possible availability of new armors corresponds to historical sources and those armors match skins as best as can be done. As I mentioned above high-quality units will have access to new armors earlier.

Otherwise new unit skins etc are always coming along but its a huge task.

[Ferdiad]

Ok. I meant Urban Spear Militia. Sorry. When they have silver armor upgrades they look quite ahead of their time.

It's mind-boggling that modding is done by so many and almost non of them have rearranged/added new unit skins to make units appear more consistent in relation to time period, quality and economic advantage. At least they're not in SS 6.4.

That's my advice. Take it or leave it. Would have done it myself if i knew how to.

Well put your oney where your mouth is http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1017

[bojan811]

Would it be possible to add some new traits or retinue in next patch?
I have been thinking something like trait or retinue that gives a shortened time for construction of buildings, or let`s say supreme general who is too old to lead an army could get a tr/ret that when he recruite units in exa. castle this unit get +1 exp bonus because He was in charge of their training.
Or maby he can give a castle more recrutment slots, reduce time for late profesional unit recruitment.

I liked a feature that i saw in DLV script that counts the battles fought by a general.

OK that is all i can think of right now.
btw...I just wanted to say that the mod is very stable and all the praise for it.

just let me now what you think about my suggestion.

[Nosjack]

Very interesting suggestion, would love to see it implemented.

[Ferdiad]

Would it be possible to add some new traits or retinue in next patch?
I have been thinking something like trait or retinue that gives a shortened time for construction of buildings, or let`s say supreme general who is too old to lead an army could get a tr/ret that when he recruite units in exa. castle this unit get +1 exp bonus because He was in charge of their training.
Or maby he can give a castle more recrutment slots, reduce time for late profesional unit recruitment.

I liked a feature that i saw in DLV script that counts the battles fought by a general.

OK that is all i can think of right now.
btw...I just wanted to say that the mod is very stable and all the praise for it.

just let me now what you think about my suggestion.

+1 To all your suggestions

[RollingWave]

Would it be possible to add some new traits or retinue in next patch?
I have been thinking something like trait or retinue that gives a shortened time for construction of buildings, or let`s say supreme general who is too old to lead an army could get a tr/ret that when he recruite units in exa. castle this unit get +1 exp bonus because He was in charge of their training.
Or maby he can give a castle more recrutment slots, reduce time for late profesional unit recruitment.

I liked a feature that i saw in DLV script that counts the battles fought by a general.

OK that is all i can think of right now.
btw...I just wanted to say that the mod is very stable and all the praise for it.

just let me now what you think about my suggestion.

you can't shorten construction time AFAIK, that's hardcoded and can only be adjusted VIA the EDB, you can only lower construction cost. same for recruitment slots, experience might be doable (at least it is in the EDB) but not sure about charactor traits.

I think expanding retinue / trait is a solid idea too though.

The easiest doable trait would be to just expand the blood trait to everyone. for example all French Generals will get the "Frenchmen" trait and different faction's get differeent bonus / penalties roughly in accordance with their historical preferences (for example Italians increase trade, Cumans increase command with cavalry and maybe looting bonuses etc..)

[Ancient Aliens]

Ok. I meant Urban Spear Militia. Sorry. When they have silver armor upgrades they look quite ahead of their time.

It's mind-boggling that modding is done by so many and almost non of them have rearranged/added new unit skins to make units appear more consistent in relation to time period, quality and economic advantage. At least they're not in SS 6.4.

That's my advice. Take it or leave it. Would have done it myself if i knew how to.

The real problem with units in SS 6.2-6.4 is that they are irregular, unbalanced, and incongruent, which is the main reason I still play 6.1. You all who have decided it's OK to toy around with KKs work should at least respected the stylistic and gameplay congruency that he exhibited in SS.

Another beef is the lack of options in regards to the submods that have been recklessly attached to SS6.1, which is what SS6.4 really is, a hodge-podge of sub-mods. 6.1 had the option to remove or include BGs Supply Mod and RR/RC, a choice which should also be included because not all of us find them to be immersive, additive towards the experience, or even realistic. Maybe also including an option in regards to cosmetic options as well, as the UI and MTW music can be grating at times (although this is easily removed via some simple modding). All I am saying is that the mod needs more organization, cohesiveness, and more options if it is to be appreciated by all like KKs work was. You can't simply ride on his coattails, hijack his work, and glob on your own personal tastes if you expect there to be a large player base for your mod.

I don't mean to be harsh either, and I respect all the work that the modding community does, and I commend you all on the many improvements over 6.1 that have been included.

[Point Blank]

The real problem with units in SS 6.2-6.4 is that they are irregular, unbalanced, and incongruent, which is the main reason I still play 6.1. You all who have decided it's OK to toy around with KKs work should at least respected the stylistic and gameplay congruency that he exhibited in SS.

I think you are somewhat generalizing to say the entire SS roster is 'unbalanced/irregular/incongruent'. The makers of CBUR etc will be interested to hear that.

I do agree that 6.1 exhibited a clean and more 'harmonious' style because it was more the work of 1 man. You have to remember that following 6.1 that KK shifted his attention mostly to TATW. SS has since been largely added to by individuals without the coherence of an ongoing team. If a solid team had been in place then we would be further on than where we are now a year ago IMHO.

However such was not the case. Therefore SS has grown in a somewhat unstructured way. Don't know if you've spent much time around the submod forums but there is continual effort to improve the rosters etc.

Also remember that at the time of 6.1, many other mods were not allowing submods. SS 6.1 is an excellent basis to mod on, and in that sense you might consider it a strength of SS that it is so open.

Another beef is the lack of options in regards to the submods *snip*.

6.4 has a decent amount of options via graculs new scripting.

that have been recklessly attached to SS6.1, which is what SS6.4 really is, a hodge-podge of sub-mods. 6.1 had the option to remove or include BGs Supply Mod and RR/RC, a choice which should also be included because not all of us find them to be immersive, additive towards the experience, or even realistic. Maybe also including an option in regards to cosmetic options as well, as the UI and MTW music can be grating at times (although this is easily removed via some simple modding). All I am saying is that the mod needs more organization, cohesiveness, and more options if it is to be appreciated by all like KKs work was.

Yes more organization would go some way, new team-driven mods like CHIP go here.

You can't simply ride on his coattails, hijack his work, and glob on your own personal tastes if you expect there to be a large player base for your mod.

I don't mean to be harsh either, and I respect all the work that the modding community does, and I commend you all on the many improvements over 6.1 that have been included.

I don't think anyone here is trying to 'hijack' KK's work, rather we very much appreciate the work he did and the amount of modding using his work as a basis is a complement to it.

[Ancient Aliens]

I think you are somewhat generalizing to say the entire SS roster is 'unbalanced/irregular/incongruent'. The makers of CBUR etc will be interested to hear that.

I do agree that 6.1 exhibited a clean and more 'harmonious' style because it was more the work of 1 man. You have to remember that following 6.1 that KK shifted his attention mostly to TATW. SS has since been largely added to by individuals without the coherence of an ongoing team. If a solid team had been in place then we would be further on than where we are now a year ago IMHO.

However such was not the case. Therefore SS has grown in a somewhat unstructured way. Don't know if you've spent much time around the submod forums but there is continual effort to improve the rosters etc.

Also remember that at the time of 6.1, many other mods were not allowing submods. SS 6.1 is an excellent basis to mod on, and in that sense you might consider it a strength of SS that it is so open.


6.4 has a decent amount of options via graculs new scripting.


Yes more organization would go some way, new team-driven mods like CHIP go here.




I don't think anyone here is trying to 'hijack' KK's work, rather we very much appreciate the work he did and the amount of modding using his work as a basis is a complement to it.

Yeah sorry about that, I was in my angry drunk mode last night, however I think some of the things I said apply and I think you have addressed a majority of them. I wasn't aware that SS was being worked on by individuals rather than a team and I do apologize for that. I'm sure you all will tidy up the mod with some time and effort.

And yes, I meant no offense to the CBUR, BFTB, etc teams either, their work was well done and very harmonious with regards to SS 6.1.

And to the individuals working on SS at the moment, not only am I very pleased and thankful for your continuous work on the mod, but I applaud many of your decisions with regards to the mod itself, particularly some of the sub mod additions and changes to the AI, both on the world and the battle map.

Unless KK intends to come back, why don't you all just form a proper team and the organization and cohesiveness will come with it. You all seem to be just as skilled as he is and there is no point in having the mod sit on the shelf.

EDIT: By the way, one of the things I didn't mention was textual errors and congruency, which by the way I would be more than happy to correct if you would like me to. As you said, KK worked on the mod as an individual and thus, the style of his writing remained consistant. I think a single textual editor could do the same for you all as well, if you all are even in need of the help.