Spartans

[Visarion]

It dosent matter which unit can beat them 1v1 or not. It comes down to the whole army composition and the generals ability

what he said only that I add that it also matters the way you arrange your army before clicking start battle and of course the strategy you apply! it is not enough to have a good general and army composition...

[Inhuman One]

I dont think its even the strongest spartan hoplite that says they are spartan hoplites so I am pretty sure more than one is spartan.

[jnabb22]

wait how many spartan hoplites are there? i know theres the general and the promochi (spelling) but theres a mainstay right?

edit: i guess i can just check for myself haha

[Bull3pr00f de Bodemloze]

There's the regular Spartan Hoplites
They have a lambda.

Everyone knows:
Lambda = Cool

[swhunter]

See our Spartan preview thread.
According to our findings, any man that had the long hair, and having a beard without the mustache.
And was trained in the Mora's, were a Spartan.
The units that have this look, are Spartan. The rest are allies and Mercs.

[Spartan198]

If I'm not mistaken, the General's Bodyguard, Promachoi, Spartan Hoplites, Spartan Ekdromoi Hoplites, Spartan Marines, Spartan Heavy Phalangites, and Hippeis Xenophontos are the Spartiatai (citizens, full Spartans, Homoioi, whatever you want to call them). The Metiokoi are mercenaries and such who basically "moved in", I treat the Taxeis Hoplites, slingers, and akontistai as Helots, and the rest are some form of Periokoi, I'd assume.

[Visarion]

Everyone knows:
Lambda = Cool

actualy lambda = Lacedaemon

[Bull3pr00f de Bodemloze]

of course! Those 2 words are so alike, after all (+ rep, if I can give it to you again)

[swhunter]

If I'm not mistaken, the General's Bodyguard, Promachoi, Spartan Hoplites, Spartan Ekdromoi Hoplites, Spartan Marines, Spartan Heavy Phalangites, and Hippeis Xenophontos are the Spartiatai (citizens, full Spartans, Homoioi, whatever you want to call them). The Metiokoi are mercenaries and such who basically "moved in", I treat the Taxeis Hoplites, slingers, and akontistai as Helots, and the rest are some form of Periokoi, I'd assume.

That is correct! Here are a few more.
From the Historian school of Kervanos and the Spartan research team.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=142035

Hypomeiones peltasts

Armed with the cheapest pilos helmet available, some javelins to throw to the enemy and a whicker thureos shield, Hypomeiones are used as skirmish troops to soften up the enemy advance. Even if some of them can and do fight, as befitting of a man who has gone throught agoge, most will run on sight, as they are very likely to reject a state which has rejected them. They are the peltasts of Sparta. Good also at close combat as some of them have been though the Agoge, and prone to attack without orders, as there is no Spartan officer to give them.
Being Spartan wasn’t easy. A price constantly had to be paid. Hypomeiones couldn’t pay that price, so they were ditched and left to fend for themselves. Although most tried and actually managed to enroll in Ekdromoi hoplitai many couldn’t. Hypomeiones were younger sons of Spartiatai (other than the firstborn), whose parents’ not willing to divide their land, cast them off to fend for themselves once they completed the Agoge. Another category of men who would join the ranks of Hypomeiones were the mothakes who couldn’t join the Ekdromoi hoplitai. A mothax was a son of a Spartan man and a Helot woman. Spartiatai who lost their land after the land losses post 369BCE also became Hypomeiones. Not being selected for a position in a fratra (brotherhood) or cowardness in battle led to the same result. Spartiatai hated Hypomeiones and Hypomeiones responded in kind. It is no secret that the only attempted coup when Lycourgos’ law was in effect was from the Hypomeiones, the conspiracy of Cinadon, as it is known. Sparta tried hard to both hide them and employ them as it could. After the attempted coup though, they really did mean less than zero for Sparta. In fact for the average Spartan, Hypomeiones were considered even less than helots. It is no accident that in RS, they aren’t even given a lochagos to lead them. Spartans avoided them like the plague.

Historically, at 224 BCE, as part of the Kleomenes’ reforms, 2000 hypomeiones were re-introduced to the “Homoioi” (Same Spartans or Peers). They were given land plots and incorporated in the Pike phalanx which became the prevalent infantry formation in the Spartan army from that point on until Sparta’s demise. While no Hypomeiones actually existed in the time RS begins in, it is absolutely certain that a growing and expanding Sparta would definitely produce them, as had happened in the past. Hypomeion meant “lesser homoios” or “under-peer” or “inferior” in an exact translation. It could also mean “hypo-meion” meaning literally “less than zero”. This must have been what it felt like for them. To be a blood relative of men who fought in Thermopylae, and just be dumped into the street, and become invisible to former friends or relatives, all because one can’t afford to be a Spartan.
Every Spartan had to pay his share in the Syssition, or public mess, that was obligatory for all the “same” Spartans. Not one of them even the King could be absent, unless of course there were state reasons. To be able to take part in them, one would need to provide a monthly share to the common pot, the φιδίτης / phidites, of which the composition has been passed to us by Dikaiarchos (through Athenaeos and Plutarch ibid., 12): 77 kilograms of barley, 39 litres of wine, 3 kilograms of cheese, 1.5 kilograms of figs, and 10 Aiginian obols which served to purchase meat. This served to prepare the main dish, the black broth (μέλας ζωμός / melas zomōs), of which Athenaios has given us the ingredients: pork, salt, vinegar and blood. Failure to afford those set prices for all meant that that Spartan would lose his place in whichever military unit he belonged, lose his rights as a citizen, disappear to the eyes of his peers. This was the fate of the younger sons of each Spartan family. Spartans carried on the ancient custom that all land goes to the first born son, and the others would have to fend for themselves. As the conspiracy of Cinadon showed, some tried to reform the system. A system which was even more cruel to its own who couldn’t pay, than its own admitted enemy slaves, the helots. Cinadon was no ordinary hypomeion. He was a part of Spartan society. In fact he was a police officer who carried out important missions for the Ephors of Sparta. He processed a scytale which meant that he could direct Somatophylakes Hippeis, the members of the elite Spartan Kings’ guard. He was literate and had thus must have received some education, leading to speculations that the firstborns of Hypomeiones could also take part in the Agoge. Because of his job he should have been a valued and respected person likely (according to Xenophon and Aristotle) to be a member of the peers (Homoioi). In his trial, he said he tried to overthrow the Laws of Lykourgos so as "to be a Lacedaemonian inferior to no one". Around him other hypomeiones joined in. Tisamenos, a member of the Melampodidon (a seer), was the most dangerous, according to Xenophon. Hypomeiones were the thorn in the Spartan side. The flaw in their “perfect” system.

Perioikoi Skiritai( elite swordmen)

Skiritai were arcadian perioikoi, but were the most trusted among all the perioikoi of Sparta. Their honorary position in the battleline right next to the Spartans and their bravery in their missions means that they were elevated to a higher status than even some native Spartan units, as Spartans above all treasured bravery and prowess in battle. They are equipped with a shortened version of the pilos helmet, and a leather or felt cup underneath to soften the blow on the head, should the helmet be struck. They wear an “exomis” variation of the “chiton”, which leaves the right shoulder free for sword or spear movement. This was worn by laborers, but was popularized in between the battle of Aigos Potamoi 404 BCE and Battle of Leuktra 371 BCE, when most armies dropped all defensive armament but for the shield and helmet. Later on, most troops resumed wearing armor for the body, but Skiritai, due to the nature of their mission, probably remained in that “exomis outfit”. They are armed with a long xiphos sword, as a spear would definitely prove unwieldy in close quarter fighting. It is slung inside their shield for easy reach. They are also equipped with the Spartan shortsword, in case they lose their sword in the heat of the battle, and it wouldn’tt be easy for them to find their sword in the dark. Their shield is dark and has some bronze pins on to cover their Mora emblem an “Ierax” or hawk. They would also be covered in carbon dust so that they would be less visible, during their mission. They set up a perimeter guard around the round shaped Spartan camp, and stood guard during the night. Skiritai while a geographical term initially, it signified a way of fighting and Perioikoi from other towns too were admitted in the Skiritai units.

Historically Perioikoi Skiritai were elite specialized troops of the Spartans. They were night fighting troops be they night guards or night raiders. Their most astounding achievement was the assassination of the brothers of Xerxes at Thermopylae according to Diodoros of Sicily. The story goes like this. During the second day of the conflict at Thermopylae, Leonidas is informed in the late evening from a Persian fugitive, Tyrrastias from Kyme, the movements of the immortals under command of the Hydarnes in the mountain pass of Anopaia and decides a night raid with Xerxes himself as the target. The Persians, obvioulsly worn out by the their continuous attacks of the battleline, don’t notice a unit of skiritai night raiders, who penetrate in the royal tent slaughtering everyone they find. Xerxes however wasn’t in the tent at the time so he escapes. This wasn’t the case though for his brothers, Abrokomes and Hyperanthes. After killing them the skiritai were slain themselves as the immortals overwhelmed them. Herodotos considers that the brothers of Xerxes died fighting Leonidas in the final stand of the Spartans in the hill. That, however is false as the Persian Kings’ brothers wouldn’t fight at the first line according to their customs, and of course we know that the last Spartans of Thermopylae died from the massive arrow shots, not direct action. Thus, Xerxes’ brothers are more likely to have been killed at a Skiritai night ops than anything else. They kept on fighting for the Spartans and they are mentioned in the first battle of Mantineia, when they along with the freed Helots Brasideioi were given the left flank (with Spartans and Tegeates allies holding the right). In that battle they were the bait as they faced the elite troops of the Spartans’ enemies. They fled eventually, but after buying the right flank enough time to dismantle their opposing force and then defeating the rest of the enemies in detail. Post Mantineia they were used as hamippoi (between the horses), meaning going in battle along with the horsemen, and gutting the enemy horses when the two cavalry forces would join. Skiritai were dismantled when Thebans stripped the Spartans of their Arcadian holdings post 371, but Spartans reclaimed Skirititai land and would definitely recreate that elite night-op force

[Spartan198]

I was listing the ones that are full Spartiatai, though. Hypomeiones, while Spartan, aren't technically full citizens for some reason or other (disenfranchised citizens who couldn't provide for the mess, birthright, etc.), which is why I didn't put them down. Same for Skiritai which, at least according to most sources I've read, were Periokoi rather than actual Spartiatai as they were an Arcadian people, if I recall correctly, and so wouldn't be eligible for citizenship.

You guys really put a lot of research into Sparta for this mod as there was quite a lot of info in there I hadn't known prior to looking at the preview, like their extensive use of Cretan and Periokoi archers. I'd always took the "Spartans despised archery" thing to mean they didn't use archers at all.

[Inhuman One]

Any chance of hiring Gerard Butler to voice general speeches for the spartans?

[Spartan198]

Any chance of hiring Gerard Butler to voice general speeches for the spartans?

That would be awesome, if it ever happened.

[silentsam74]

Any chance of hiring Gerard Butler to voice general speeches for the spartans?

He doesn't even need to be hired. An intelligent individual with the correct technology could make a few simple speeches with this.

http://www.soundboard.com/sb/Leonida...board_300.aspx

EDIT

Here is another.

http://www.realmofdarkness.net/sound...soundboard.htm

[Roboute Guilliman]

If you are looking for the elite of the elite it is the promachoi hoplites who are elite spartans. The simple spartans hoplites are just regular army. There are also a certain spartan hoplites which are called metoikoi, which are actually non spartan citizens who are recruited into this unit.
The ekdromoi Hoplites are just milita hoplites.

[Bull3pr00f de Bodemloze]

"just" regular army...mate,

and ekdromoi are not militia, they are specialised light hoplites. They were trained to be a light unit, militia is (mostly) a light unit which isn't properly trained.

[jnabb22]

thanks for alll the info people! and we need that gerard butler thing for this mod.. but one last question for now.. do you start with the spartan phalangites? or is there a reform?

[Katsumoto]

Hey that Gerard Butler thing could be pretty cool. Could definitely work, although the speeches would be pretty similar.

[Spartan198]

thanks for alll the info people! and we need that gerard butler thing for this mod.. but one last question for now.. do you start with the spartan phalangites? or is there a reform?

No, no reform. You have them right off the bat. I don't think the reforms in RS2 affect factions other than Rome.

[Hunor]

Hi Guys.

ask a question. I'm playing the roman campaign. but unfortunately, the Macedonians were exterminated Sparta. If i occupy the town of Sparta, and then leave it to rebel, then re-appears Sparta as a faction again, or be a simple rebells ???
thx for reply..

[jnabb22]

Hi Guys.

ask a question. I'm playing the roman campaign. but unfortunately, the Macedonians were exterminated Sparta. If i occupy the town of Sparta, and then leave it to rebel, then re-appears Sparta as a faction again, or be a simple rebells ???
thx for reply..

you could always just give the spartans money and support.. but i dont know exactly.. havnt played the game