Heros

[Zhuge_Liang]

What would you prefer?

1) Historical heros in historical battles

2) A 'Champion unit' in the campaign game that is not a family member.


I think it is only right that the fans decide this. Both options have pro's and con's.

The big bonus with the campaign champions is that they will be in the campaign, but can't be family memebers (ie. achillies would be a separate general with bodyguard). The champions for each faction would have the likeness of the relative hero for that faction (as shown in the heros renders topic).

The bonus with the historical heros is that they will be the actual heros like achillies and hektor etc. - the main problem is that they will only be available in the historical battles (which may feature as an addon pack for the mod).




All generals and champions woud be mortal! Perhaps capable of taking on a single unit of enemy, no more by themselves.

The family members will be normal generals and will be the heros of the time like achillies. It is impossible to have these as one-man units, though they will have hero stats like high health and what not, but will also have a bodyguard unit.

Therefore we suggest the champion unit (one man) for the campaign. This would have no link to the family and will be similar to the kensai in shogun which are just recruitable one man units. They will be very expensive and most likely limited to one. The factions will have them with similar abilities to their famous heros but if a lesser champion, like from argos gets more and more experience then there is a great chance that they could defeat a hero from phthia with no experience. This will add a role play element where you can develope characters if you want, or dread coming across an old enemy champion who has already killed many of your men in previous battles.

This should all result in the following structure.

The most powerful unit is the generals unit because they have a hero plus bodyguards (the heaviest infantry for that faction).

Second most powerful is the champion unit which is 90% as good as the faction hero, but only one-man strong (meaning experience will increase rapidly so long as they aren't swamped by enemies). Ideal for holding strong points such as bridges, gates, breaches or leading a charge into a horde of terrible infantry. If well trained a champion could be the only way to defeat a powerful enemy general or rival champion.

The third post powerful will be the heaviest infantry/chariot type for each faction. Each faction has it's own strengths and weaknesses for example lycia will have the best archers, phthia the best heavy shock troops etc.




The alternative option is to forget about one-man units in the campaign and just have the historical figures as one man units in the historical battles.

These are the only two options because of hard coded limitations.

[Claudius the God]

I feel that historical heroes are better. It is very important that the heroes are family members, and if the heroes are recruitable, then you could have a new one everytime they were killed! It is not too bad if the heroes look the same, as long as they look good (which they all do!) and family members are still very good soldiers!

[Zhuge_Liang]

If they were to be recruitable they would be very expensive and limited to one at a time.

It would add a role-play element. You could have your own characters who can gain experience. I think it would add a nice twist.

[Klipz]

i like the idea of having them in the campaign, but would you have the unit when the game starts? like if you were troy would you have hector, and paris *if there is a paris in the start so you wouldnt have to wait to get money?

[Zhuge_Liang]

They couldn't be family members, that is our problem. They would be other people, paris and hector would have bodyguards.

[Klipz]

yea i understand but when the campaign start would you already have the heroes or do you have to wait till you have the money?

[Zenith Darksea]

To be honest Zhuge, I feel that not having them as family members would make the campaign unworkable. If the heroes aren't family members, then you just won't have any families full-stop. The family trees would be totally messed up.

[Rosacrux redux]

Why limit the options? Why not heros as family members in the campaign game? I'd love that! Prolly you should overpower the family members a tad, but that's good since this is a mythical mod, no?

[Zenith Darksea]

Not surprisingly, that was our original intention. We were going to have overpowered, one-man (no bodyguard) family members to act as hero units. However, scripting problems make this (seemingly) impossible. It seems that having more than one hero per army makes the game crash, and due to hardcoding there is no way around this.

[Zhuge_Liang]

Yes, and these 'champions' would not be family members, they would have to be a recruitable one man unit completely separate from the family. Unfortunately it is the only way to include them in the campaign game. So this basically comes down to whether having just the historical heros (only in historical battles) is more important or having heros in your own campaigns is more important

[Klipz]

if there wasnt any heroes in the campaign and there was just normal general then would the heros name be in the family tree or no?

[LordSaradain]

why cant you have historical heroes, ie family members in the campain?

[dark_shadow89]

because it's impossible to code

[Zhuge_Liang]

All generals and champions woud be mortal! Perhaps capable of taking on a single unit of enemy, no more by themselves.

The family members will be normal generals and will be the heros of the time like achillies. It is impossible to have these as one-man units, though they will have hero stats like high health and what not, but will also have a bodyguard unit.

Therefore we suggest the champion unit (one man) for the campaign. This would have no link to the family and will be similar to the kensai in shogun which are just recruitable one man units. They will be very expensive and most likely limited to one. The factions will have them with similar abilities to their famous heros but if a lesser champion, like from argos gets more and more experience then there is a great chance that they could defeat a hero from phthia with no experience. This will add a role play element where you can develope characters if you want, or dread coming across an old enemy champion who has already killed many of your men in previous battles.

This should all result in the following structure.

The most powerful unit is the generals unit because they have a hero plus bodyguards (the heaviest infantry for that faction).

Second most powerful is the champion unit which is 90% as good as the faction hero, but only one-man strong (meaning experience will increase rapidly so long as they aren't swamped by enemies). Ideal for holding strong points such as bridges, gates, breaches or leading a charge into a horde of terrible infantry. If well trained a champion could be the only way to defeat a powerful enemy general or rival champion.

The third post powerful will be the heaviest infantry/chariot type for each faction. Each faction has it's own strengths and weaknesses for example lycia will have the best archers, phthia the best heavy shock troops etc.




The alternative option is to forget about one-man units in the campaign and just have the historical figures as one man units in the historical battles.

These are the only two options because of hard coded limitations.

[Zenith Darksea]

Of course having recruitable champions in the campaign will mean that Achilles won't be featuring as a campaign hero... Instead, he'll be the general looking on as his hero goes to work.

[Zhuge_Liang]

Not exactly true, the faction heros such as Achillies will still be the most powerful units in the game the main difference will be that they will have bodyguards to help them out making their own unit capable of swaying a battle (like in the illiad). The fact that they will still be family members also means that unique traits can be given to each proper hero.

[Zenith Darksea]

True, I suppose. Ah, it won't be that bad really. But I'm most annoyed at CA. Why do they have to put in these arbitrary hard code limits?

[Claudius the God]

I think that if the heroes are not family members then that TOTALLY misses the point of the hero. The family tree would also be totally ruined, and what about if the game goes on a long time. I may want to take Hector's children to Greece to fight Agamemnon's children! Who cares if the heroes can't change a battle in one charge, or if the have to have a small bodyguard? They MUST be family members!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Zhuge_Liang]

The heros WILL be family members

The suggestion is that we include a one-men 'champion' unit ALONG WITH THE HEROS

[Nobunuga oda]

im happy with the family members and champions because some heros were actualy stronger than the people that recruited them, also i like the rivalry sense of the champion unit. taking them into battle would just be amazing to see them kick ass.