RSII Legion Composition and Tracking

[dhaalque]

A full Striking Force could consist 4 stacks:

1 Named Legion
2 Auxilia Field Legions
1 Siege Auxilia Legion

Is it possible to gain so high income to keep 28 x 4 =112 full stacks (+ settlements garrisons)?

[Enasteron]

Is it possible to gain so high income to keep 28 x 4 =112 full stacks (+ settlements garrisons)?

All the 28 legions + supporting troops active at the same time?

No, I don't think that the mod will give the amount of income that let the player to have 112 full stacks at the same time.

But why trying to do so? Use as many as you can afford or need.

[Marku]

how are you guys finding autoresolve results when using this templates in battle?

with auto, alot of my aux infantry get killed on average (on M/M Alex) around 2000-3000 deaths against a mixed light/heavy infantry based army.

[marteenez]

Great job with that army compositions, and many thanks for that excellent Excell file. This is mega useful and really help with organisation .

Definetely somoeone should stick this thread

[SeniorBatavianHorse]

Excellent work - love the spreadsheet!

[LegatvsLegioXII]

Nice work.Thank you! +rep

[Aristotle's Folly]

Thank you, Thoas, for making this. Excellent work. Appeals to my sense of organization. Although, I'm wondering why you didn't include a praetorian legion? Isn't "the rule" that you can/should recruit two? Or has that changed and we're not recruiting them any more? If so, too bad, for I really like the way the early legions looks.

I don't use siege legions. Instead, my fourth "legion" will be the supply legion. From turn 1, once I recruit a legion, it never gets retrained. Instead, as men die off, I merge the units and draw new ones from recruitment cities or supply centers that I set up. This presents an additional logical challenge of managing supply.

Thanks again.

~ Dani ~

[Marcus Publius]

From turn 1, once I recruit a legion, it never gets retrained. Instead, as men die off, I merge the units and draw new ones from recruitment cities or supply centers that I set up. This presents an additional logical challenge of managing supply.

So you don't retrain your legions even if they become very experienced?Like 5-6 exp?

[caprera]

good question

[Caius Antonius]

Bumping for posterity. This should really be pinned or at least linked to in a pinned thread.

[Aristotle's Folly]

So you don't retrain your legions even if they become very experienced?Like 5-6 exp?

Sorry I missed your question. Not sure what you mean ...

I create a legion - for example, the first one in the game. It fights a battle, losing men. So long as I don't compeletely lose the legion, when the battle is over, I consolidate units, creating X number of full units from the weakened units. I usually move right to left. When I'm done I have X, Y, and Z units, where:

X = Full units
Y = the 1 "weakened" unit of that type
Z = unit "holes" or the new units I need to recruit.

I take the legion to a city, recruit the Z units, retrain the Y units and I'm done.

Time passes, battles are fought. Usually, the loss of units keeps the legions from getting too much experience. In time, I will be faced with the need to upgrade my barracks, either through the lack of having something else to build or I've triggered the Imperial Reforms.

Now I have legions which cannot be retrained, but which have a full history. I've traced all my legions, whether I have six or eight or ten, from the moment of creation. That first legion I created may be still be in existance, although it's leader has certainly changed.

Now I begin integrating the new Imperial units into my legions. Usually this is based upon where the unit is at the time the reforms occur. As the legion continues to fight, I replace the weakened units with new cohorts, beginning with a First Cohort.

After about five or ten years, one legion - usually the best, but not always, for I do roleplay - is designated as the Praetorian legion, and it's units are replaced with Praetorian units.

I'll write more about this in my AAR tutorial.

~ Dani ~

[Marcus Publius]

Sorry I missed your question. Not sure what you mean ...

I create a legion - for example, the first one in the game. It fights a battle, losing men. So long as I don't compeletely lose the legion, when the battle is over, I consolidate units, creating X number of full units from the weakened units. I usually move right to left. When I'm done I have X, Y, and Z units, where:

X = Full units
Y = the 1 "weakened" unit of that type
Z = unit "holes" or the new units I need to recruit.

I take the legion to a city, recruit the Z units, retrain the Y units and I'm done.

Time passes, battles are fought. Usually, the loss of units keeps the legions from getting too much experience. In time, I will be faced with the need to upgrade my barracks, either through the lack of having something else to build or I've triggered the Imperial Reforms.

Now I have legions which cannot be retrained, but which have a full history. I've traced all my legions, whether I have six or eight or ten, from the moment of creation. That first legion I created may be still be in existance, although it's leader has certainly changed.

Now I begin integrating the new Imperial units into my legions. Usually this is based upon where the unit is at the time the reforms occur. As the legion continues to fight, I replace the weakened units with new cohorts, beginning with a First Cohort.

After about five or ten years, one legion - usually the best, but not always, for I do roleplay - is designated as the Praetorian legion, and it's units are replaced with Praetorian units.

I'll write more about this in my AAR tutorial.

~ Dani ~

Oh I see.What I do is create legion,then after some battles they get some experience, then I withdraw the whole legion from the front and sent them where they can be retrained.(And sometimes if possible get better armour).For holding the frontier in meanwhile I use auxillia armies.You said that from turn 1 you never retrain your legions.So that's why I asked.Now I understand how you do it.

[chris10]

So you don't retrain your legions even if they become very experienced?Like 5-6 exp?

The entire retraining thing is nothing more than an exploit of the game mechanic and should have been redone totally for RSII.

Example: You play on huge and one of your polybian cohorts of 202 men adquire 1 silver chevron but is down to 30 men...you move the cohort back to a city..retraining...and by miracle of the gods...you get an entire cohort with 1 silver chevron...sorry...this is nonsens because you ad recruits to the cohort...you have now 172 unexperienced noobs and the remaining 30 veterans...there is NOOOOO way the entire unit can be a 1 silver chevron veteran unit then...refilling of veteran/elite troops with noobs should result in a considerable experience loss.

To built elite troops the player should unite depleted veteran units in order to maintain their experience level and just having veterans in that particular cohort and fill the holes in the army with new recruited troops,that would be the right and realistic thing do...
If you built the right buildings you will get new troops with 2 bronze chevrons anyway....

By now the retraining thing is just leading to the built up of Über-Legions with 3 silver or even gold chevrons...no point in fighting any battle as these über-armys can slaughter any Army the AI can sent without even taking real casualties...

This way its a very lame game experience anyway as the AI has already endless disadvantage against human players....dont you think so ?...

[Dull_Gladius]

Uh, you know you can already merge units right? If playing realistically is that important you can do what a lot of people do and merge damaged cohorts with the "M" key and ship reinforcement cohorts to your legion. Certainly not necessary for them to redo the retrain system, if that's even possible.

Also, it's up to personal preference if somebody wants to retrain units. No one's really forcing you to do it...

[Marcus Publius]

The entire retraining thing is nothing more than an exploit of the game mechanic and should have been redone totally for RSII.

Example: You play on huge and one of your polybian cohorts of 202 men adquire 1 silver chevron but is down to 30 men...you move the cohort back to a city..retraining...and by miracle of the gods...you get an entire cohort with 1 silver chevron...sorry...this is nonsens because you ad recruits to the cohort...you have now 172 unexperienced noobs and the remaining 30 veterans...there is NOOOOO way the entire unit can be a 1 silver chevron veteran unit then...refilling of veteran/elite troops with noobs should result in a considerable experience loss.

To built elite troops the player should unite depleted veteran units in order to maintain their experience level and just having veterans in that particular cohort and fill the holes in the army with new recruited troops,that would be the right and realistic thing do...
If you built the right buildings you will get new troops with 2 bronze chevrons anyway....

By now the retraining thing is just leading to the built up of Über-Legions with 3 silver or even gold chevrons...no point in fighting any battle as these über-armys can slaughter any Army the AI can sent without even taking real casualties...

This way its a very lame game experience anyway as the AI has already endless disadvantage against human players....dont you think so ?...

Well on alex engine the AI can retrain units, so I think I should be able to do it.I understand your point on exp,but then again veteran cohort which is for example half strong would be merged(reinforced) with another half strong veteran cohort.Witch in game you could not do.And not the raw recruits.And if they would be merged with veteran cohort.They would be able to train and fight with veterans and that would naturally give then more morale and experience,confidence etc,then to train and fight with raw recruits just like themselves would not give them so much advantages.In reality also a 30 men veteran cohort would not be let to remain so and would be reinforced if possible with veterans from other cohorts to made the cohort full.I know game could be more realistic it always can, no matter how the game is good and realistic.So I feel it's the best system it is for now.If in future better system would be created I would be pleased.Like if your two(and more) veteran cohorts could be merged into one.And the men of the cohot would have difference experience levels as they earned.Like one man would have exp4, other 5 and so on.I feel that would never be the case and don't know how it could be made this way.But that would be perfect.

[chris10]

Well on alex engine the AI can retrain units, so I think I should be able to do it.

Like if your two(and more) veteran cohorts could be merged into one.And the men of the cohot would have difference experience levels as they earned.Like one man would have exp4, other 5 and so on.I feel that would never be the case and don't know how it could be made this way.But that would be perfect.

1. Well, I play on alex.exe but I cant see any difference.
2. Merging the remains of 2 or 3 veteran units (its not important if they have 1 or 2 silver chevrons)
into 1 real veteran unit by drag and draw is much more realistic and fair than retraining
the remaining 30 men of a 2 silver chevron unit into one entire cohort with 2 silver chevrons ignoring
the fact that the noobs dont have experience at all...that feels cheat and is an
exploit of a wrong designed game mechanic

Did I get something wrong or did you say that you can not reinforce or merge two half depleted units into each other?..Of course you can...drag one into the other in the unit screen and you are done....

[TW-fanboy]

This an interesting composition, but Tacitus (58 - 120) said the legionaries and auxilia troops were equal in numbers (at his time, that would mean 150,000 legionaries and 150,000 auxiliary troops. I use this concept, so1 legion has one auxilia army as support stack. And, my garrisons consist of auxilia troops).

[Marcus Publius]

1. Well, I play on alex.exe but I cant see any difference.
2. Merging the remains of 2 or 3 veteran units (its not important if they have 1 or 2 silver chevrons)
into 1 real veteran unit by drag and draw is much more realistic and fair than retraining
the remaining 30 men of a 2 silver chevron unit into one entire cohort with 2 silver chevrons ignoring
the fact that the noobs dont have experience at all...that feels cheat and is an
exploit of a wrong designed game mechanic

Did I get something wrong or did you say that you can not reinforce or merge two half depleted units into each other?..Of course you can...drag one into the other in the unit screen and you are done....

Well yes you can merge units.But if one unit has 3 exp and other 4 exp the whole unit(merged) becomes 4exp.or the other way around.I only tend to merge units with same experience.And I usually don't disperse my legion units so I go with the whole legion and retrain all units witch was not merged.Well I guess that's how I play.You're right merging everything would be realistic.But I think that if AI have a ability to retrain be it 1 man gold chevron unit into the full strength gold chevron unit.So should I.I would like than AI be more smarter on battlefield on campaign map.But I wouldn't like to have less features than I.To me that's like battles on very hard AI troops become superhuman,because they get many bonuses.But that don't matter as they still lack the brain to do good tactics on you.So you win with bigger casualties.But it's still don't feel right.I much more prefer that troops remain humanlike without crazy bonuses,but that AI would be more decent.So that would be fair.It's too bad that RTW AI is hardcoded.

[MDT]

I only retrain my Praetorian Legions, as this makes sense imo.
Everything else is refreshed by reinforcements.

[Dekker]

Seeing a lot of misinformation here.
The game tracks individual experience, but displays unit experience.

If you retrain a silver chevron unit that is down to 10 men, you will not get an extra 200 silver chevron-standard men, you will get 200 raw recruits and then the game will display an average of the experience within your unit.

This used to come up a lot when people used cavalry wedges: the game sorts your cavalry wedge so that they line up in order of experience, with the most experienced horseman at the front. People used to complain because if they did a lot of cavalry charges in wedge formation, they would find that despite killing lots of the enemy, their units experience would drop - because the men at the front were getting killed, and they represented a disproportionately high percentage of the unit's average experience.

A simple way to see this effect: try merging a handful of battle-weakened units in different patterns - you can make experience chevrons "disappear" and "reappear" as the average experience in each unit changes.



In a 0-turn mod, the ability to retrain and the ability to levy new units is basically identical. It just depends whether you'd rather have a single crack unit of super-experienced troops, or have each unit containing a handful of experience amidst the rookies - which will look less impressive on the unit card, but will still tell in battle.

In the polybian units, I use the former - because it soon gives you distinguishable principes (merged units, where all the experience lies) and hastati (your new recruits); haven't reached the imperials yet, but think I might do it the other way round at that stage.