armor piercing units

[armen]

Are units with axes, maces/clubs, and slingers ap units? if so, I had an axe armed unit face some hoplites but I didnt really see the effect of their ap abilities.

[Friedrich Barbarossa]

Just watch the unit info. Slingers are definately ap units. I don't know whether Axe/maces/clubs are ap, just played "civilised" nations so far.
But slingers are extremely efficient and worth their money 100 times.

[apple]

Well the shield is still quite strong on many units, especially hoplites.
Make sure to attack them from their backs.

[DarthLazy]

AP units will be more effective from the flank since most have low armor, but some like Naharar cavalry can go up front and deal massive damage. Axes,clubs,maces,falx,sica(?),rohmia,falx are all AP and reduce a units armor value to half. If the totatl defence of a unit is say...

10 armor
2 Defence skill
10 shield
total 22
it will get reduced to 17 armor

thus units with greater defence skill than armor fare better against AP units. Units like cataphracts will be doomed to hell

[rory o'kane]

Whereas units that have very good shield values will be less vulnerable, unless you hit them from the left side or the rear, so they don't get the benefit of their shields.

[DarthLazy]

^exactly the reason they are usually put on the flanks, preferably left flank along with slingers

[Visarion]

search for "effective against armour" in the unit description... traits...

[armen]

search for "effective against armour" in the unit description... traits...

What if there are alot of other things written in the unit description, and "effective against armour" just doesnt show up there. For example in the unit description of the Caucasian axeman it doesn't state "effective against armour" however they do use an axe, and most likely they are an AP unit.


PS

does defense skill play a role when a unit is attacked from behind? or is it only the shields value that is made obsolete?

[DarthLazy]

nothing is made obsolete, only armor value is reduced by half and defence skill and shield are unaffected. Dunno whether defence upgrades correspond to armor,shield,or skill, could not figure that out

[armen]

nothing is made obsolete, only armor value is reduced by half and defence skill and shield are unaffected. Dunno whether defence upgrades correspond to armor,shield,or skill, could not figure that out

I meant if a unit is flanked or attacked from behind I know that the shield value is made obsolete, because the attack is coming from behind, however is defense skill reduced as well since the unit is being attacked from behind?

[swhunter]

I try to have 1/3 for archers and slingers. To hold the front lines with pikes.
And the sidelines with hopelites or whatever heavy armour i have.
Then i send them behind the enemies front lines, fire directly into their ranks.
Once weakened, my Cav. will hit just one side of the flank. They will crumble
because of organization will fail.
Slingers/archers will gain experience, while all other units will throw their spears, into them.
Sometimes this works and sometimes it doesn't.
Keep reserves to protect your slingers and archers when they do this maneuver.

[d010060002]

woah

so you're telling me that slingers are ap, but archer's aren't? how does that work?

[TiFlo]

A rock thrown from a sling at a straight angle packs way more punch than an arrow that's been travelling along an arc up and down. The rock may not actually pierce the piece of armour per se, but the impact is still enough that it can disable you by shock trauma.

[armen]

i was looking at the export descr unit page, and I noticed that some units which carry axes and maces or clubs do not have AP damage, while some that do have AP damage. I wanted to ask why the team decided to give some units AP damage and others not even though they carry the same type of weapon.

[swhunter]

A rock thrown from a sling at a straight angle packs way more punch than an arrow that's been travelling along an arc up and down. The rock may not actually pierce the piece of armour per se, but the impact is still enough that it can disable you by shock trauma.

From what we discovered. It wasn't most of the time, a normal rock.
More like a musket ball! They were smooth, and shaped. And from some artifacts they were designed, like how soldiers of today mark their rockets or missiles with names, or designs of images.

[Tsim]

i have hard time seing that make any impact on bronze cuirass or LS, soft armor that gives way sure there will be blunt trauma (maybe) but not hard armor it just don't have enough momentum to knock a person over if they wearing hard armor or penetrate it

[swhunter]

They used lead or ceramic pellets for the short and medium distances. Rocks from the battle field were used for long distance. It is interesting to note that the unused slings were often tied on the slinger’s head to hold back his long hair. Hairnets were also popular

more info on slingers later.

[swhunter]

Archaeologists discover more evidence that confirms the Bible
Here is what an ancient sling looked like. It was made from animal hair.

Many people think of ancient slings as not much more than toys. However, the Bible tells us that a young shepherd named David killed the giant Philistine, Goliath, with a very accurately slung stone (1 Samuel 17:40, 49). The Bible states that the Israelites used slings as weapons of war (2 Kings 3:25).
Bronze Age slingstones
from Khirbet el-Maqatir (West Bank, Israel) Not naturally rounded, they all have evidence of being shaped by man. These stones don't talk, but they do tell tales about the people who once lived there.


Archaeologists are finding evidence that confirms these biblical stories. Slingstones were important weapons in an ancient army's arsenal.
At one excavation site in Israel, 10 miles north of Jerusalem, slingstones have been found in almost every area of the dig. Interestingly, the site is located in the territory given to the tribe of Benjamin. This tribe was known for an elite corps of slingers (Judges 20:15-16; 1 Chronicles 12:2), many of whom were left-handed slingers. 700 of them could each "sling a stone at a hair and not miss."

"After three seasons of excavation, we have found nearly three dozen slingstones. Most are roughly round and slightly over two inches in diameter, from the size of a billiard ball to a tennis ball."
--archaeologist Dr. Bryant Wood (Associates for Biblical Research)

The best method of releasing a stone from a sling is by an underhand motion. The Art of Slinging Stones

A sling such as David may have used.



It is unclear when men first started slinging stones instead of throwing them. Yet, once known, it did not take long to learn that stones could be slung faster, farther, and more accurately, than they could be thrown. Early slingers also found smoother, rounded, stones were far more effective than any other shape.
Ancient hand slings generally consisted of a single long strip of leather or woven wool, with a central “pocket” for the stone. The longer the sling, the greater its range. Long-range slings were about 3 feet long (0.9 meters).
"Slingers are often visualized as releasing overhead, yet the best way to utilize a sling is by an underhand motion, like a softball pitcher," said archaeologist Grace Kellner. "Elaborate wind-ups were wasted motion. One windup, like a good softball pitcher, was sufficient."
Before development of the modern compound bow, ancient slingers were as effective as archers and served as an important part of any military force.
Fast, accurate and deadly weapons

Two larger Bronze Age slingstones and a smaller Hellenistic slingstone, compared to a tennis ball.

Surprisingly, a good slinger hurled a stone as far and accurately as a good archer. Roman military texts recommended archery target practice at about 200 yards (183 meters). Slingers are known to hurl their projectiles even farther, as much as 440 yards (402 meters) (a quarter of a mile / 0.40 km).
As for accuracy, one ancient writer noted that the best slingers "would wound not merely the heads of their enemies, but any part of the face at which they might have aimed." Experiments demonstrate that missiles leave a sling in excess of 60 miles per hour (97 km/h).
One Roman writer noted that opponents in leather armor were in far greater danger from sling missiles than arrows. Even if the stone did not penetrate the armor, it was capable of inflicting a fatal internal injury.
Unarmored bodies were easily penetrated by sling stones. An ancient medical book included instructions for removing lead and stone sling missiles from the bodies of wounded soldiers.
While typical slingstones used by the Greek and Roman armies were the size of golf balls, different cultures liked different sizes. In fact, at some ancient Greek and Roman battle sites, archaeologists believe they can differentiate which slingstones were standard equipment for which army.
During all periods, it was important for an army's projectiles to be uniform in size and weight. Otherwise, a slinger would need to compensate with each toss. Each army standardized the size and shape for maximum accuracy, speed and distance.
Not all slingstones were stones

Many slingstones from the Greek and Roman periods were not stone. Sun-dried pottery and lead both produced small, heavy balls. Lead balls were often manufactured with inscriptions on their surface. Government-issued Greek and Roman munitions were frequently inscribed with the name of the slinger's military formation or commanding general. Other inscriptions were more creative. “Take this,” “Ouch,” and even "For Pompey's backside," added insult to injury.

To see web page
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-ab...gsforkids.html


Archers and slingers are like your heavy artillery in modern times.

[torzsoktamas]

Slingers were also deadly because you can't see the rocks or lead bullets that come!You can see the arrows that archers shoot,so you can use your shield to defend.But you will observe the sling bullets just when they hit you.And believe me that a headshot from that would be lethal.If I know it well,there were found montefortino helmets in Italy that were pierced with lead bullets fired from slings.(possibly in the punic war).

[swhunter]

Slingers were also deadly because you can't see the rocks or lead bullets that come!You can see the arrows that archers shoot,so you can use your shield to defend.But you will observe the sling bullets just when they hit you.And believe me that a headshot from that would be lethal.If I know it well,there were found montefortino helmets in Italy that were pierced with lead bullets fired from slings.(possibly in the punic war).

That is correct.
That is why i have 3 to 4 units of slingers. Two archer units. one cav.
4 pike-men, and the rest whatever i can use and available.