Elven Factions Re-Development

[Varjon]

Fantastic idea! I've always been slightly uneasy about the way the elven factions feel, so I'm really glad to hear about this. Could I convince you to rename the High Elves to the Sindar Elves? To me, "High Elves" is synonymous with "Calaquendi", and there were very few Calaquendi left in Middle-Earth by the end of the Third Age. Lindon was largely Sindar, as was Círdan. Even Elrond, though of Noldorin descent, wasn't a Calaquendë as he never saw the light of the Trees. Personally, I think the name "Sindar Elves" would be far more apt, though I suppose it wouldn't really fit with all those cool Last Alliance-esque units.

Actually High Elves is quite correct name since that meaning includes both Sindar and Calaquendi because Sindar under the rule of Thingol and Melian got "part of their Valinor" in Doriath's forests which was of course Melian who was Maia.

[Shocked]

I cannot wait for this to be released I hope it is put into RR/RC as well xD

[alreadyded]

The Sindar under Cirdan never lived in Doriath, they always dwelt in Lindon since coming from the East. The Elves of Doriath were not considered 'high' Elves anyway, but they were as skillful. Tolkien himself (and his kid) refers to Cirdan and his people as Sindar, so how is High Elves "correct"?

[Moonflower]

Basic Units - Silvan Elves

-Silvan archer (bow and sword)-->love that you are finally making them look like "Haldir and his pals"
-Silvan spearmen (spear and shield) use same concept, more or less, as above
-Silvan wardens (throwing spears and shield) --> perhaps a few throwing spears before charging with swords! Then I would approve.

Local Units (AOR)

-Mirkwood Rangers (bow and sword)-->perhaps dual swords? (if not then it's fine as is)
-Lorien Sentinel (bow and pole arm) ---> an armored, more heavily garbed version of the silvan archer with a sword would be much more preferable! Name suggestions: Sentinels of the Wood/ Galadhrim Sentinels

Heavy Silvan Units

(no changes)--> please, for the love of baby Jesus, make some aesthetic altercations, maybe make them region specific: lorien elite archers--Galadhrim perhaps, etc--thus splitting the heavy units THUS creating a larger roster, and new names. I push Galadhrim because the Two Towers film gave us an AMAZING concept to work with... and it has yet to be fully realized in TATW

Elite units

-Elvenking Warriors (dual swords)--> name suggestion: Silvan Swordsingers/ Silvan Bladedancers
-Horse archers (bow and sword) meh.---> perhaps make them aor specific so you can attach them to a settlement/region thus making a better name, for example Riders of Eryn Lasgalen. etc. etc.

Oh and thanks for answering my prayers Louis!

[Shocked]

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-Silvan wardens (throwing spears and shield) --> perhaps a few throwing spears before charging with swords! Then I would approve.

That is most likely what he meant.

-Mirkwood Rangers (bow and sword)-->perhaps dual swords? (if not then it's fine as is)
-Lorien Sentinel (bow and pole arm) ---> an armored, more heavily garbed version of the silvan archer with a sword would be much more preferable! Name suggestions: Sentinels of the Wood/ Galadhrim Sentinels

I like the sword and pole arm ideas..

(no changes)--> please, for the love of baby Jesus, make some aesthetic altercations, maybe make them region specific: lorien elite archers--Galadhrim perhaps, etc--thus splitting the heavy units THUS creating a larger roster, and new names. I push Galadhrim because the Two Towers film gave us an AMAZING concept to work with... and it has yet to be fully realized in TATW

I like the heavy units as they are

EDIT: 900th post!

[Varjon]

The Sindar under Cirdan never lived in Doriath, they always dwelt in Lindon since coming from the East. The Elves of Doriath were not considered 'high' Elves anyway, but they were as skillful. Tolkien himself (and his kid) refers to Cirdan and his people as Sindar, so how is High Elves "correct"?

You are right but can you think of better name than High Elves for those Elves who lived in Lindon and Rivendell? After all they all weren't Sindar, there were still many Noldor and even more of those who had mixed heritage of both Noldor and Sindar so you can't just call them Sindar Elves.

[athanaric]

-Silvan archer (bow and sword)-->love that you are finally making them look like "Haldir and his pals"
-Silvan spearmen (spear and shield) use same concept, more or less, as above
-Silvan wardens (throwing spears and shield) --> perhaps a few throwing spears before charging with swords! Then I would approve.


-Mirkwood Rangers (bow and sword)-->perhaps dual swords? (if not then it's fine as is)
-Lorien Sentinel (bow and pole arm) ---> an armored, more heavily garbed version of the silvan archer with a sword would be much more preferable! Name suggestions: Sentinels of the Wood/ Galadhrim Sentinels

Just why are you so obsessed with goddamn swords? I think his concepts are perfectly fine with polearms and all that. You know, an army of only swordsmen and archers will look pretty stupid if the opponent starts fielding a lot of heavily armoured knights. Which, incidentally, is the favourite strategy of Rhûn and Rohan.
Furthermore, do you think that in a woodland faction everybody would run around with a sword or even two? Why not three, while we're at it? Or chainswords?? Maybe, just maybe, they have limited iron supply if they all live in a fancy wood without major iron mines? Makes far more sense to use spears, axes, and polearms - which are easier to create anyway. Spears are just as Elvish as swords are. The sword fetish among fans arises only from a remark by Tolkien that the sword was the preferred weapon among the Noldor, whereas the Vanyar preferred spears, and the Sindar bows. That doesn't mean each race uses one weapon exclusively. Humans have always preferred the spear (it's the most common weapoon), and look at our weapons arsenal today.

-Horse archers (bow and sword) meh.---> perhaps make them aor specific so you can attach them to a settlement/region thus making a better name, for example Riders of Eryn Lasgalen. etc. etc.

Horse Archers make perfect sense, though they're only mentioned for the High Elves. Them being specific to some regions is not a bad idea though.

[Louis Lux]

-Silvan wardens (throwing spears and shield) -> perhaps a few throwing spears before charging with swords! Then I would approve.

The throwing spear is meant to make a distinction between them and the high elves, and also characterize them as skirmishers. But they will have scale armor and a sword so they'll be fine in a brawl.

-Mirkwood Rangers (bow and sword)->perhaps dual swords? (if not then it's fine as is)

No, they will be like other ranger units and more than one dual sword unit is too much.

-Lorien Sentinel (bow and pole arm)-> an armored, more heavily garbed version of the silvan archer with a sword would be much more preferable! Name suggestions: Sentinels of the Wood/ Galadhrim Sentinels

Another distinguishing feature that I rather keep, for me they would be just too vulnerable with a sword.

(no changes)-> please, for the love of baby Jesus, make some aesthetic altercations, maybe make them region specific: lorien elite archers--Galadhrim perhaps, etc--thus splitting the heavy units THUS creating a larger roster, and new names. I push Galadhrim because the Two Towers film gave us an AMAZING concept to work with... and it has yet to be fully realized in TATW

Again no, I support a large number of AOR units for the elves but I won't reduce the availability of their high tier regular units by making them regional. They will have an updated look though.

-Elvenking Warriors (dual swords)--> name suggestion: Silvan Swordsingers/ Silvan Bladedancers
-Horse archers (bow and sword) meh.---> perhaps make them aor specific so you can attach them to a settlement/region thus making a better name, for example Riders of Eryn Lasgalen. etc.

I'll keep the Elvenking Warriors name, but a better name for the horse archers is in order I just can't think of any, AoR is still a possibility.

[Stabbyman]

the Noldor interbred with the sindar widely and the noldor were taken as lords and princes by the sindar, most noldorin elves today would be at least part sindar in terms of heritage as there simply were not tons of noldor about.

and more on topic i simply can't wait to see this mod come out, i hope it'll be compatable with AUM and taros' gondor extended mods.

[Beregond]

mmm, Louis, you can make the Horse Archers AOR for some areas outside Mirkwood (they won't really need horse arch in the woods, right?); for example, AOR in Anduin Vale

P.S. were you thinking of giving armour to Eldar horses?

[frontier-auxilia]

How bout a armored horse archer unit. Elves know their horsie well so they should be able to ride some. Also in the Silmarillion, this dude send horse archers against Young Glaurung (the dragon pardon the typo). They manage to repel him because Mr dragon is still in a young age thus took a lot of hits and he was not able to catch them. So it fits with traditions too.

[Louis Lux]

mmm, Louis, you can make the Horse Archers AOR for some areas outside Mirkwood (they won't really need horse arch in the woods, right?); for example, AOR in Anduin Vale

P.S. were you thinking of giving armour to Eldar horses?

Don't know about Vale of the Anduin AOR, doesn't sound right. And armored horses are definitely on my plans.

[Stabbyman]

maedhros was meant to have had allot of skilled horsebacky elvsies so horse back archers would work

[Colonel Cleg McLeg]

You are right but can you think of better name than High Elves for those Elves who lived in Lindon and Rivendell? After all they all weren't Sindar, there were still many Noldor and even more of those who had mixed heritage of both Noldor and Sindar so you can't just call them Sindar Elves.

They certainly weren't all Sindar, but there were far more Sindar around at the end of the Third Age than there were High Elves - most of the Noldor who remained after the War of Wrath had left by the time Cirdan became the leader of the elves in Lindon.

Another possibility would be to name them the "Eldar". The name Eldar, after all, referred to all the elves who left for Valinor, regardless of whether or not they completed their journey - a name which therefore refers to the Sindar and Nandor as well as the Calaquendi.

[Beorn]

Consider adding a spear-bow unit for Silvan elves

It works quite well, and gives some bonuses to the AI, who's unable to protect his archers against cav. charges.

An low-level AoR in Mirkwood would be good, as spear and bow are primitive weapons, both used a lot by Silvan.

[Varjon]

They certainly weren't all Sindar, but there were far more Sindar around at the end of the Third Age than there were High Elves - most of the Noldor who remained after the War of Wrath had left by the time Cirdan became the leader of the elves in Lindon.

Another possibility would be to name them the "Eldar". The name Eldar, after all, referred to all the elves who left for Valinor, regardless of whether or not they completed their journey - a name which therefore refers to the Sindar and Nandor as well as the Calaquendi.

But the problem is that Silvan Elves are also Eldar so we can't name another of them Eldar.

[Louis Lux]

Consider adding a spear-bow unit for Silvan elves

It works quite well, and gives some bonuses to the AI, who's unable to protect his archers against cav. charges.

An low-level AoR in Mirkwood would be good, as spear and bow are primitive weapons, both used a lot by Silvan.

The lorien sentinels will a have polearm as secondary, they are AoR and not much more armored than the basic units. The polearm will be more ornate and distinguished than the common spear.

[hamroun12]

I pretty much thumbs up everything you've planned especially the mirkwood ranger unit!! but seing as everyone else is 'contributing'..

Wouldn't it make more sense to give a high-elven unit a polearm and bow rather than a silvan unit a polearm and bow? It has alot of tactical advantages don't get me wrong, but i dont think the polearm would be a weapon of choice for woodland warriors, unless you intend to make the polearm a variation of the elven spear? which would sway me

(Please don't give them phalanx formation, i'd love to use the unit, but how pointless are archers that can barely move?)

[Beorn]

The lorien sentinels will a have polearm as secondary, they are AoR and not much more armored than the basic units. The polearm will be more ornate and distinguished than the common spear.

will it have a shield?
If not, use the M2TW pike animation, not the halberd one as many do

[hamroun12]

will it have a shield?
If not, use the M2TW pike animation, not the halberd one as many do

I'd hate that, especially if they are lightly armoured. My elven army is quite mobile and it would suck to have an Aor unit that could barely move :/