Elven Factions Re-Development

[alreadyded]

What do you need modeled? Weapons and armor mostly I am guessing. If it something that would be fun to make then I will help, I can model anything. Sounds like a great project.

Oh yea, and for the horses, I will be using my own models and existing skins in case you wanted to know.

[Louis Lux]

How exactly will HE reform Lindon? Lindon still exists at the start of the game, it's just nowhere near the military power it was in the Second Age. The harbors and towers are all still standing and its territory is still complete. What exactly is there for a player to do, other than just tech up?

Also, I don't really see the usefulness, balance- or lore-wise, of Lindon Pikemen. Pikes are low-cost weapons that don't require much skill or training on the part of their users, just some basic discipline. This is why Men and Uruk-Hai make sense as pikemen. Elves, who are few in number but great individual fighters, really don't make sense in this context. Obviously they need anti-cavalry units, but they have those, and against trolls AP units like the Smiths are pretty effective as well. And then, of course, they are from Lindon, meaning they'd be a pain to get to battle.

I'm also just generally not a fan of LotR pikes in general, specifically the Arnor Pikemen and to a lesser extent the Vault Wardens. In the films, Isengard had pikes because they were supposed to represent the 'scientific' approach to war, fueled by industrial mass-production, combined-arms tactics, and dehumanized discipline. The Rohirrim were the old warrior ideal, which is why they mostly looked like 9th-century Saxons going up against an enemy using 16th-century weapons and tactics. Pikemen really just don't have an appropriate 'feel' for the Good factions, or really any Evil faction besides Isengard.

There are some objectives you'll have to fulfill to restore Lindon and be able to recruit the unit (specifics still have to be developed). I disagree about pikes, they are a militia weapon and the unit will be reminiscent of Gil Galad and his weapon was a big spear.

[Jean=A=Luc]

Ah, right you are. I misread.

Looks like I'm the one who was wrong.

[Yarrum]

Great Louis, I was wondering when were you going to make your move. I've actually been checking the Elven Overhaul social group from time to time.

It's your luck day; check the social group.

[Red Paladin]

How exactly will HE reform Lindon? Lindon still exists at the start of the game, it's just nowhere near the military power it was in the Second Age. The harbors and towers are all still standing and its territory is still complete. What exactly is there for a player to do, other than just tech up?

Also, I don't really see the usefulness, balance- or lore-wise, of Lindon Pikemen. Pikes are low-cost weapons that don't require much skill or training on the part of their users, just some basic discipline. This is why Men and Uruk-Hai make sense as pikemen. Elves, who are few in number but great individual fighters, really don't make sense in this context. Obviously they need anti-cavalry units, but they have those, and against trolls AP units like the Smiths are pretty effective as well. And then, of course, they are from Lindon, meaning they'd be a pain to get to battle.

In reality some of the most fear units in history are highly discipline troops using pikes (greek hoplite, Swiss pikes.) Try giving Pikes to a bunch of peasant and you get the orc army who get overruned by the Rohan in Jackson's film. We already have Eldar Spearman, Eldar Pikeman wouldn't be that far fetch.(maybe a bit redundant)

even in the PJ film elven army are depicted as being highly discipline almost to the point of machine-like, especially compared to the humans and Orcs.

[Louis Lux]

Exactly. Eldar pikemen would be indeed redundant so I opted for a light/medium unit, and since Lindon has a higher population density, it would be able to mobilize enough soldier for a pike formation.

[3MKA]

I'm really looking forwards to this revamp. The "re-emergence" mechanic is interesting and it reminds me somewhat of the Rerforms system from Europa Barbarorum. I'm also hoping that they would play very differently from every other faction.

On the high elven swordsmen concept, will he also be given a helmet? or at least one after armor upgrades? It just seems strange that they would go into battle with only leather and a shield to protect them.

Also yes, having pike formations isn't just a matter of telling peasants to keep together and making sure the pointy end goes into the other guy. Variations of it have been around for a long time. It shouldn't be unusual that the elves would develop it given their long history.

Also for gameplay, having a spearwall formation ups the survivability of that unit from melee at least until it gets flanked.

[delra]

Please don't make them too golden. Your skins are awesome but to me they look a tad silly with so much gold on them.

[athanaric]

I wanted to make a distinction between the bowmen and swordsmen, besides it will be just a bit smaller than the swordsmen sword.

Why not give the archer a sword and have a spearman instead of the swordsman? Spearmen are always under-represented in games with Elven factions.
Also, melee units with primary and secondary melee weapons (I don't mean dual wielding in this case; rather like spear - sword or spear - axe as it's with cavalry) would be great. Adds more depth IMO.

Overall a sound concept though.

[seregras]

For re-emergence of the high elves, I think the founding of Eregion sounds excellent. It was the only true kingdom of the noldor east of the blue mountains. To re-establish that kingdom would be a great feat, and would likely even slow the rate at which elves left middle earth as it would stimulate a hope in a glory once thought long past. No doubt, there would have to be other objectives, as you mentioned, but the reclamation of the regions of eregion and the rebuilding of that kingdom should be the crowning achievement in the realization that the elves are moving toward a second elven renaissance.

Also, if you would like help on descriptions.. please just let me know where to go, and what to do. I would love to put some time into this project.

P.S. I really really hope that your sindar/silvan faction meshes well with some of the units for FROME. I love the dark greys and "battered bronze" colored armour currently represented in kouls higher end units, and those with alternate skins for armour upgrades, and i hope that will translate into your factions units too. They will look splendid i think.

[Louis Lux]

Please don't make them too golden. Your skins are awesome but to me they look a tad silly with so much gold on them.

If I understand correctly you are not talking about my skins because that wouldn't make sense, since none of them have golden parts. If you are talking about the elves high tier units represented in the movies there is nothing I can do about them, they are golden and that is it.

On the high elven swordsmen concept, will he also be given a helmet? or at least one after armor upgrades? It just seems strange that they would go into battle with only leather and a shield to protect them.

Helmet will be given to the sentinels and will show that they are more ready for battles, an upgrade is a possibility.

Why not give the archer a sword and have a spearman instead of the swordsman? Spearmen are always under-represented in games with Elven factions.
Also, melee units with primary and secondary melee weapons (I don't mean dual wielding in this case; rather like spear - sword or spear - axe as it's with cavalry) would be great. Adds more depth IMO.

Overall a sound concept though.

Swordsmen seems more high elven to me, silvans will have spearmen. Never seen this kind of melee swap except for pike and that was very awkwardly done.


On another subject I was thinking of making the basic elven units mixed, with males and females. To show that they are just travelers that patrol the borders and not meant to go to big battles.

[MasterBigAb]

Very nice LL
Have a big + Rep for your efforts

[koultouras]

actually there is a wide combination of mixing weapons
These are the ones that come easily
to my mind cause they're the ones that i had to do for projects i m involved
1) Troa hillmen pikemen(rhudhaur)
javs 1ary and pikes secondary
2)frome mwardens
bow 1ary and glaive 2ary(ok wielded like 2h sword, but pike is also possible, ijust happen to like that kind of wielding)
3)TGC norman sargeants
2h axe primary and sword 2ary +shield
(actually this combination is quite interesting cause it gives u the chance to choose weapon the very moment of battle)
4)Frome O.Chosen
1ary javs and spear 2ary
(instead of javs there could be anything u like ofc but with some limitations)
and many many more.....
so its just a matter of taste, bones assignment....and/or lore accuracy, to have various weapon combos!

[Varjon]

On another subject I was thinking of making the basic elven units mixed, with males and females. To show that they are just travelers that patrol the borders and not meant to go to big battles.

At least in my opinion that would be very fitting because like you said they are just travelers patrolling borders but the difficult thing is how to make female Elves look distinguishable from males. After all clothing, hair style and facial appearance aren't that much different.

[Ellin Athinaios]

On another subject I was thinking of making the basic elven units mixed, with males and females. To show that they are just travelers that patrol the borders and not meant to go to big battles.

I like the idea. Elf-women were, after all, as strong and capable as men, physically.

Edit: Varjon makes a good point... You'd need to add some boobs.

[Jean=A=Luc]

On another subject I was thinking of making the basic elven units mixed, with males and females. To show that they are just travelers that patrol the borders and not meant to go to big battles.

Fine by me. JJR stated in his letters that the gender division was not as great among elves and that men and women differed less in terms of strength, dexterity, etc. so it's not unreasonable to have some female troops in the lower tiers at least.

Also you know you can always turn to me for descriptions and such.

[Varjon]

I like the idea. Elf-women were, after all, as strong and capable as men, physically.

Edit: Varjon makes a good point... You'd need to add some boobs.

Well that wasn't exactly my idea but I guess that'd do the job, it's better than trashy make-up...

[Yarrum]

On another subject I was thinking of making the basic elven units mixed, with males and females. To show that they are just travelers that patrol the borders and not meant to go to big battles.

That might be a little bit difficult since there's no surefire way to make the female heads/hairs match up with the female body types.

[Louis Lux]

That might be a little bit difficult since there's no surefire way to make the female heads/hairs match up with the female body types.

Wouldn't be possible to do it through comments? I think it's worth some investigation.

[delra]

Oops. I assumed you're going to reskin Eldar and Sindar units too. That's what my post about too much gold was about.