Roma Surrectum II: Suggestions, issues with One-Turn Campaign

[Paladin247]

Several issues if you'll bear w/ me.

I selected one term in the launcher then selected play Rome. Started the game and verified that I was in one turn because it will only let me recruit one unit anywhere I go. However, I never got the one turn campaign screen shown in this thread.

Then in GT 2 or 3 I got a big rebellion in S. Italy w. three rebel armies beseiging cities even tho I had beaten/destroyed the Carthaginian army up north and killed Hannibal in GT 1.

I thought there weren't supposed to be rebellions in one turn?

Did I screw this up and not select one turn correctly?

If I'm really not in one turn, is there a way to go from zero to one turn?

Thanks for the help.

Edit: Found the solution partially here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...light=one+turn

Another factor was that I was trying to play one turn using the ALEX.exe and it kept crashing without opening the game. Once I used the instructions above plus the RTW.exe the single player menu came up. I don't know why my first search didn't find this thread.

[chris10]

1) Character movement is too big: every turn, you can if you wish so besiege a town, and even go further than the next enemy town, seriously disrupting the enemy military infrastructure; this is no zero turn where 3 stacks are blocking your way each turn, in 1 turn once you defeat an enemy army you easily have 4 or 5 turns of liberty to attack them before they reconstruct an army.

2) Barracks construction time is too low: once you conquer a town, it takes no more than 8 turns before its able to build decent medium units, therefore the military progression is way too quick, and the "assimilation" of a province not accurately depicted;

3) AI has tendency to completely empty it's border towns by producing troops(who incidentally have very low population) because they are closer to the front, therefore its destroying its ability to develop towns into more powerful unit-pumper since its always low pop and never evolving;

4) Many buildings which made sense in 0 turn modfoldered campaigns are useless in 1 turn nonmodfoldered campaign: mainly region determination, roman governements, and weapon metal imports;

5) The treasury income is what imbalance 1 turn economy greatly. basically when you start off, you have 1 or 2 strong armies and start earning 20K per turn, allowing you to instantly rush your surroundings and expand your empire in just a few turns, catching the AI unprepare and undevelopped; however when you develop and conquer, your ability to raise funds , just like in 0 turn, comes to an equilibrium.

If i had to sum up 1 turn as it exists now, it's a massive military rush without constraints.

Aside from the points mentioned earlier, i'd add the following proposals:
- remove elite barracks from the capital;
- tone down armies available :depending on the size of the empireand the number of front, there should only be 1 army, sometimes 2, available;
- tone down units upkeep a bit and remove treasury income or seriously tone it down so that it only allows the economy to turn a small profit on turn 2;

I'am just 20 Turns into the 1Turn campaing and dont want to come to final conclusions yet because sometimes things who look bad at the beginning work out on the long run...
Just a quick brainstorm on Siegfrieds statements

to 1) Agreed...should be reduced considerably for an enjoyable game..
At the moment it just feels like an exploit.

2) Agreed

3) TRUE but the AI will empty its citys anyway ....
In 0Turn the AI throws stack after stack out and never develops properly.
The major flaws of the 0Turn system have never been resolved.
This is one of them and he has made its way into the 1Turn campaing.
LT_1956 tried to resolve this for for SPQR by giving the AI massive groth bonusses
but this only resulted in more annoying battles...
I mean in vanilla these things where working and the AI did not depleted its citys...
I think the devs should have a serious look again to the original routines for recruitment
conditions in vanilla and see what they can take back in from it if not the entire routine.
Back to the roots, baby!

4) ...Dont mess with the buildings..the more the better..

5) Treasury for Rome is just fine if you keep building in all citys you wont have to much money left.
Not building and keeping all the money for making hilarious big armys is nothing more than an
exploit of the game mechanic and would make is useless to play anyway
By the way I have a pretty hard time at the moment as Macedonia try's everthing to take away my foothold in Greece. They throw army after army at me (even in 1Turn) and Iam totally busy with keeping my two expeditionary forces alive..meanwhile one is taking on incoming armys the other is reinforced in Rome...so before it will be back to replace the other there a easily passing 4-5 Turns and while building in all citys I sometimes dont have enough money to reinforce (as reinfocring is pretty expensive)
So occasionally I have to cancel building to reinforce troops and having in mind that Iam just at the beginning and not building anything expensive yet ...well...I cant see to much money around.

Regarding the maximum size of the forces...well dont know if there is something which can be implemented.

I would think about something like a maximum amount of units to be recruited per city (in relation to its population,maybe) and once reached this amount a city can not produce anymore units until living units are destroyed or disbanded.
Dont know...maybe a scale or something like this...
over 2000 habitants 4 landunits
over 6000 habitants 8 landunits
over 12.000 habitants 16 landunits
over 24.000 habitants 24 landunits
this would be less than 1/4 of the population of each settlement...much more realistic as you dont expect to draft woman,children and old people to arms,right?

not sure if this could be somehow implemented and work properly without bringing to much disadvantages to smaller factions with less citys (for these implement Garrison script spamming strong armys in their citys when besieged) but would solve certainly various problems....reduce and limit the overal stacks on the entire map (you never would meet 40-50 full stacks of faction xy in a later game)...restrict army sizes in relation to the size of the faction...solve part of the problem with depleted or underveleoped citys...
and for sure it would strenghten enormously the strategy part of the game as you really have to consider now where to go with your precious forces...
Especially with the Numbered Legions you must have now a city over 24.000 habitants in order to recruit an entire Legion.
Saying that: Things probably go a lot slower with such a system and I would expand the timescale at least until 180 AC when Rome reached its peak under his greatest emperor Marcus Aurelius
This is not meant to work with any faction in any direction an be balanced..
I just talk about a Roman Campaing
... well,dont know...just brainstorming

[son of romans]

The main problem in 1 turn campaign still are units,I don't undiustand why some units in full plate have arrmor 7,defence skill 20-they are immortal gods who a learning how to fight houndreds of years because in formation main defence is shild and arrmor,you can't jump like Ninzea avoiding hits,second-were are greek cities,third-some mercenaries are cheaper than recruited units like Phalangites.

[Úlfhéðinn]

The main problem in 1 turn campaign still are units,I don't undiustand why some units in full plate have arrmor 7,defence skill 20-they are immortal gods who a learning how to fight houndreds of years because in formation main defence is shild and arrmor,you can't jump like Ninzea avoiding hits,second-were are greek cities,third-some mercenaries are cheaper than recruited units like Phalangites.

I don't like to honk my own horn... BUT I've adressed these issues in my submod:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=388097
It is still work in progress and there are some mistakes in there but the 1-turn campaign should be playable and I'll release a patch during the weekend, which will hopefully adress the mistakes made in the previous versions.

[son of romans]

I don't like to honk my own horn... BUT I've adressed these issues in my submod:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=388097
It is still work in progress and there are some mistakes in there but the 1-turn campaign should be playable and I'll release a patch during the weekend, which will hopefully adress the mistakes made in the previous versions.

Thnks,it seems than you saved two hours of my time by changing this stats so I should not do it by myself but still were are free greeks?

[chris10]

Could it be that the Vulcan Temple in 1Turn does not provide the same armour
upgrade as he does in 0Turn ?
I built it up to the last level in Rome and still have just silver armour---in 0Turn you make gold armour in the last but one...as well it is not showing armour upgrade in the building description

EDIT:
Just found out that I did not built Vulcan Temple up to last level. Now built Panteon of Vulcan and got another armour upgrade +1 to make finally gold. Nevermind...

[Nota']

Hi.
This affects both O and 1 turn campaigns but i feel it has more affect on 1 turn as the need for multiple cities that can recruit the same unit to make building armies faster. In Rome (after the marian reforms) you can't make ordinary legions, or romes special latin medium calvelry. This means my most advanced city cant provide anything but artillery, (calvelry sometimes) and my one or 2 preatorian units i have in a army. Something needs to be introduced to allow legions to be recruited while allowing you to recruit praetorians. At the moment i have to recruit my infantry and archers from arrientum which takes longer than it should. The curia in rome does nothing, and after building praetorian training grounds you can't even recruit the numbered claudia legions!!!!

Edit: unrelated but many spear weilding units seem to have no VS calvelry bonus in their descriptions

[chris10]

So..Iam around 590 AUC now and I feel that there is a bit to much money around for rome...
I have about 23 citys now and while I keep building in all settlements I still have lots of money...
I would suggest to:
1) tweak down a little bit the roman income
2) increase building times and costs for big/important structures because
at the moment I blitz through the building tree and will have nothing left
to do in my italian settlements very soon.

[magraev]

The previously raised issue with emergency armies haven't been adressed as far as I can see. If you take carthage and thapsus you get a spawned army of elites outside carthage. I can (try) to deal with that with my invading army. But is it true, that this army will keep spawning as long as carthage survives? If that's the case it should be dropped from 1-turn. You can't recruit troops in the area fast enough, and besides it seems silly if you've controlled the area for 100 years or more.

I also have an issue with recruiting legions as rome - don't know if I'm doing it right (newbiealert). It seems you have to recruit the legion one cohort at a time - meaning it takes 20 turns of expensive upkeep before you can move a full legion out. Also does it change to archers and cavalry automatically or do I have to recruit those separately?

[chris10]

The previously raised issue with emergency armies haven't been adressed as far as I can see. If you take carthage and thapsus you get a spawned army of elites outside carthage. I can (try) to deal with that with my invading army. But is it true, that this army will keep spawning as long as carthage survives? If that's the case it should be dropped from 1-turn. You can't recruit troops in the area fast enough, and besides it seems silly if you've controlled the area for 100 years or more.

I also have an issue with recruiting legions as rome - don't know if I'm doing it right (newbiealert). It seems you have to recruit the legion one cohort at a time - meaning it takes 20 turns of expensive upkeep before you can move a full legion out. Also does it change to archers and cavalry automatically or do I have to recruit those separately?

Dont know how long the army keeps spawning but hey......dont think it will be forever...better than the vanilla blitz without any challenge...
and invading with just 1 army...well,seems a bit...overconfident...
I would be hugly dissapointet if I could take Carthage with 1 army alone..the game would be no better than vanilla...
If the army keeps spawning then take Carthage out the right way and let the capital for the end and not for first mate...thats things have been in real life too...
If you loose an army deal with it...
The challenge of 1 Turn is that you have to plan strategically as you cant replace an army instantly...
0Turn is : spamming stacks=win
Regarding recruitment....Cant think of an army in human history which has been recruited and was available entirely at the same time...this is a built up..little by little...build the cohorts of Legio XX and the archers, cavalry and auxilia or whatever in another city so you will finish earlier...
Legion Composition should be 1 general,1 First Cohort,9 Cohorts, rest depends on purpose...I add 2-3 Spear,2-3 Archer/Skirmisher,2-3 Cavalry,1-2 Siege
You have to select and train all units seperatey...any unit other than the numbered legions could be recruited from somewhere else...
its a strategy game after all...start planning your developement,reinforcements and campaings and have fun realizing your plans instead of trying to blitz the AI which does not provide any challenge at all...
I personally try to expand more or less historical so I do not take much more ground than I should have by the time but thats just one way of playing this game...

[magraev]

Dont know how long the army keeps spawning but hey......dont think it will be forever...better than the vanilla blitz without any challenge...
and invading with just 1 army...well,seems a bit...overconfident...
[snip]

EDIT: I won't be rude...

Thank you for the lecture. You obviously don't know the script code any more than me and you guesses about the spawning armies are therefore as good as mine.

I hope someone with more insight into the mod can answer me.

[chris10]

EDIT: I won't be rude...

Thank you for the lecture. You obviously don't know the script code any more than me and you guesses about the spawning armies are therefore as good as mine.

I hope someone with more insight into the mod can answer me.

shhh..ok...these armys keep spawning until you deal with the entire faction...pretty clever feauture from the devs to avoid that people take away the capitals from their enemies (as they are the major part of their economy)..this forces to a more historic approach...take away the colonies and other citys first and let the capital for last and you wont have any more problmes with spawning armys....but....always a but...
the first time you attack Cartaghe City directly there will be spawning emergencies armys anyway...this is to simulate that resistance keeps rising the further you advance and to give the player a challenge...

[Siegfriedfr]

The previously raised issue with emergency armies haven't been adressed as far as I can see. If you take carthage and thapsus you get a spawned army of elites outside carthage. I can (try) to deal with that with my invading army. But is it true, that this army will keep spawning as long as carthage survives? If that's the case it should be dropped from 1-turn. You can't recruit troops in the area fast enough, and besides it seems silly if you've controlled the area for 100 years or more.

It's true.

What i did in my submod is add a 10% chance for those armies to spawn in the script (instead of the previous 100%).

Or, you could just conquer the outlying settlements before closing in on the capital and core cities... but even then it's pretty ridiculous to beat one of those armies... just to see it respawn the next turn.

[magraev]

I'll be checking out your submod Siegfriedfr. Thanks for the tip. My own temporary approach have been to delete that part of the script entirely.

I couldn't believe when the second elite Carthage army appeared outside the city, but I didn't know that it would go on until I've conquered all of spain and africa. I like that they can spawn once or twice though.

[chris10]

-- double posts merged (Brusilov) - please use the EDIT button

Well...double post...
not my fault when there are no people around in 1 Turn...
just a few gaming oldtimers like me

Just a few suggestions and issues...

1. I mentioned that 1Turn throws to much money on the player..Iam sure this is supposed to become
better once the reforms step in as legionaries are more expensive and have higher
upkeep...however..iam close to the reforms and the game throws 50.000 at me each turn...
but i have over 600.000 treasury and keep building everything i can...this is to much
2. Every single city I conquered by now was empty (about 500 population) except for Carthage.
The AI gets decent money to built stacks but spamms unexperienced armys
and towns never develope. To counter this I suggest massive groth bonusses for the AI.
As well I suggest to give the AI an advantage in recruiting more exp. troops for enable
troops to be recruited with 1-2 silver chevrons quite early....finally an opponent!!!
This will slow the player down a little bit and prevent early steamrolling.
3. Conquering depleted and undefended citys is no fun and ends up in steamrolling the map.
GARRISON SCRIPT pleeeeaaaaaaase for spawning strong defensive forces in case of siege
simulating a city conscripting all men for defense....8 speers,4 Bows,4 Heavy Inf..
at least 3 coppper chevron and for heavy inf 1-2 silver...that should cause a few casualties
among the attacker......come on guys..we need a fight !!!!
4. Imperial Reforms trigger when building Imp. Palaces in Mediolanon,Taurasia and Patavia.
Oversight or intented feature ?
5. I encounterd a strange CTD on "Turn" when putting a Birreme in the construction queue in Rhegion.
First I thought it was a random crash. I reloaded and cancelled the Birreme...and the turn went
through...I reloaded again passed a turn adding the Birreme again one turn later to the queue and
CTD again. I could provide the save if somebody wants to have a look at the issue
6. I can not build any land units in Thebes as I keep getting the message that I should built a "Regional Goverment Focus" but the Region is fully annexed and all necessary buildings are in place...see screen...somethings wrong with that City...
EDIT: Same occurs in Pollentia but when I looked at the city closely I found that it had a precious metal import instead of a weapons metal import. The facility has been built before I conquered the city.
I think it is the same problem with Thebes but as there are just 2 levels of building slots accessible per city there can be only 24 different buildings be shown to the player
Once a building slips in the invisible part it cant be destroyed as you cant see it. Any solutions to this problem ?
7. Placeholder

Thats it for now....thanks a bunch for all the work guys...this is the most enjoyable 1Turn Campaing I ever had with Rome Total War

[DarthLazy]

1 turn does have a script that controls both treasury and spawned armies

[magraev]

Ïn responce to Chris10's suggestions:

1) I manage to reach 0 denari quite easily - in my seleucid campaign I couldn't even build in most of my cities each turn, and could only recruit 4-6 units pr. turn. I don't know what tactics you have to use to become hyper-rich - blitz maybe and lots of tax buildings?
2) There are pop-scripts for many cities that equalize all troop-building (optimized for large unit-size). These cities (most major ones) simply cannot be emptied by recruitment unless you play huge. and if you do that - don't.
3) I dislike garrison-scripts as they encourage cheese (spies or attacking adjacent armies). An option if it replaces the endless army-spawn in the scripts today I guess.
4) Sounds like a bug to me.
5) Ditto
6) Confusing building descriptions with in-game messages is funny...
no_number) the one about buildings dissapearing below the waterline is imho a bug.

I have a single nitpick of my own. Farms+3 don't give a pop-boost like the others - easily fixed.

And let me just go on record to say that this mod is great

[Nota']

This is from a non-1 turn player. I agree with magraev, playing as selucids money is a problem, but playing as rome cash is plentiful, I have no idea why. Maybe addressed in a patch?

[mgabor27]

Hello!

A have two question:
1. Does anyone suggest me which the optimal difficulty level in 1 turn campaign is? Is it H/H like in the 0 turn?
2. Is it possible in the future the modders make a roman rebellion in the 1 turn campaign?

Thanks!

[Kulgan]

I just wanted to say that if you're playing Chartage you can't recruit ships except in Chartage itself.
The requirement has a not hidden area attached to the chartage faction's requirement when building boats.

Is this intentional?

Thanks


Kulgan