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Thread: Roma Surrectum II: Suggestions, issues with One-Turn Campaign

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  1. #1
    dvk901's Avatar Consummatum est
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    Default Roma Surrectum II: Suggestions, issues with One-Turn Campaign

    Please put all your questions, suggestions and input concerning the One-Turn campaign in this thread. It will help me to make it better in the future. Thanks.

    Creator of: "Ecce, Roma Surrectum....Behold, Rome Arises!"
    R.I.P. My Beloved Father

  2. #2

    Default Re: Suggestions, issues with One-Turn Campaign

    As the Romans, why do you start with powerful fleets in this version whereas in the other one I think you only start with 2 Biremes?

    Why aren't the Roman rebellions in this mode?

  3. #3

    Default Re: Suggestions, issues with One-Turn Campaign

    you can't have the rebellions as if you play another faction they would still happen and ai rome would get steamrolled

  4. #4

    Default Re: Suggestions, issues with One-Turn Campaign

    Ah ok that makes sense but now I have another question then, why were the two versions separated in the first place, why not just have a drop down option in the launcher asking if you would would like to play your campaign with zero recruitment or normal recruitment rather than go to the trouble of creating a different campaign for each faction and then create an entirely separate version which contains yet another start-up screen for all the factions?

  5. #5
    Timefool's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Suggestions, issues with One-Turn Campaign

    That would take a lot of data since it would need an entirely new EDB file. The mod is big enough already. 1 turn was not meant to be the main way to play and really was just a bonus for those that don't like 0 turn.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Suggestions, issues with One-Turn Campaign

    ^ Laziness.

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    Default Re: Suggestions, issues with One-Turn Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Dodge View Post
    ^ Laziness.
    No, it would be easy to change a few values. An hour or two max I would think. But that would add a lot of Kb's to the download.

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    apple's Avatar Searching for 42
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    Default Re: Suggestions, issues with One-Turn Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by thedudederek View Post
    No, it would be easy to change a few values. An hour or two max I would think. But that would add a lot of Kb's to the download.
    Sure but it would take hours and hours to balance the game for 1-turn recruitment.

    RS 2 is meant to be played with 0-turn. As thedudederek said, 0-turn is just a bonus and nothing we really focused on.
    People are free to make submods that redoes the 0-turn campaigns to 1-turns.
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    Default Re: Suggestions, issues with One-Turn Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by apple View Post
    Sure but it would take hours and hours to balance the game for 1-turn recruitment.

    RS 2 is meant to be played with 0-turn. As thedudederek said, 0-turn is just a bonus and nothing we really focused on.
    People are free to make submods that redoes the 0-turn campaigns to 1-turns.
    SO it's not balanced? Sad...I love 1 turn campaigns because they are much more realistic....
    “Long distance running is particularly good training in perseverance.” Mao Zedong

  10. #10
    dvk901's Avatar Consummatum est
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    Default Re: Suggestions, issues with One-Turn Campaign

    People, my intention for this thread isn't to start a pissing contest over why we did the one-turn campaign the way we did, or why this or that is the way it is. Read the title carefully. It says "Suggestions, Issues"

    During Beta Testing, I couldn't BUY a one turn tester, and I couldn't kidnap one to test Rome. So I'm not looking for 'why did you do this or that', or accusations that we were lazy. That's BS. The fact is, there was only one person or two interested, and they tested the Barbarian factions briefly. I just didn't have time to the do the testing necessary...so you should be getting the picture here. I'm asking YOU for suggestions and help to make that campaign better.

    There are issues with this campaign, first of all, because it can't have the rebellion as the normal Roman campaign does. That's because the Free Barbarians in the normal Roman campaign are the Roman rebels. But, if I can get some good input about how this campaign should start (for each faction), and how it plays as it's set up now, I may be able to create specific EDB's and EDU's for the other camapigns that would nicely make them one-turn campaigns as well. But without a good deal of testing and input, I couldn't really see myself just taking a stab in the dark and doing that, and then having people tell me it plays like crap.

    So look at the one-turn campaign in RS2 as a test bed for making better ones for the other campaigns, if you would, please.

    Creator of: "Ecce, Roma Surrectum....Behold, Rome Arises!"
    R.I.P. My Beloved Father

  11. #11

    Default Re: Suggestions, issues with One-Turn Campaign

    I just planning to start one turn campaign with Macedonia, but now when i reed this it seems like one turn campaign is buggy is that correct?

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    Siegfriedfr's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Suggestions, issues with One-Turn Campaign

    Did a Macedonian and Spartan campaigns up to roughly 30 settlements, my observations so far:

    - Generic regarding RS2 and impacting 1-turn:
    > defense value is too high and battles are dragged out since units hardly ever root because of their high morale, and most units become exhausted long before any meaningful damage has been done, dragging the battle even more into boredom; i halved defense for all infantry in my own EDU and like the result better;
    > too many temples to build, way too many;
    > cavalry units are way too cheap to recruit and upkeep. unless there is a reason for this, cavalry should be more expensive than infantry;

    - 1-turn specific:
    > Money comes in faster than recruiting is possible, leaving plenty (ie way too much) of cash for buildings. Upkeep and/or cost should be at least doubled to counter this. My opinion is that once an army is raised, economy should come to a standstill [ie low income] until the conflict is resolved [ie settlements conquered or army disbanded due to end of the war], thus i'm favorable to high(er) upkeep;
    side opinion: the massive income from the capital cities makes it very hard to balance upkeep

    > many buildings, barracks especially, are too cheap and quick to build, so the expansion is pretty easy with a wide availability of medium units in just a few turns; IMO barracks building time (should) reflect the assimilation of a province/city and the willingness of the populace to engage in the conqueror's army, it should be a (very) slow process; this is especially true for 1 turn where when you crush an AI army they are defenseless for many turns; easy and quick access to recruitable units only aggravates this;

    > the AI has a tendency to spam boats, maybe/probably because they are too cheap;

    That's all for now.
    Last edited by Siegfriedfr; September 07, 2010 at 09:10 AM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Suggestions, issues with One-Turn Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Siegfriedfr View Post
    i halved defense for all infantry in my own EDU and like the result better;

    Did you do this by hand? Or do you use a programm that can do something like "devide all numbers in column no. x by 2"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Slow View Post
    Did you do this by hand? Or do you use a programm that can do something like "devide all numbers in column no. x by 2"?
    I wish i had such a program. I did this by hand with notepad++, took me roughly 20 minutes.

    Quote Originally Posted by dvk901 View Post
    So you've played every faction and determined that they all too much money?

    I really need very specific input.


    @shireknight: I never really answered you question. I know some people have said that the modfoldered campaigns are only 'slightly' different, bless their hearts, but the fact is that from a coding standpoint vs Real Life vs sleep...they are wildly different. And not every one is different in the same way. Unfortunately, I have never been a very 'organized' person in terms of documenting things, keeping records of changes, leaving a legacy for those who follow me in case I croak. LOL It's all organized in my head. It's just the way I am, and it's too late to change me. The negative...or more negative thing about this is that I can only handle so much before my brain starts to short circuit........remembering every change and every setting in RS2, and why you did or did not do that, is a very taxing endeavor. I'm not complaining, I'm just saying that I WOULD have put a lot more effort into creating one-turn files for every campaign if I'd really had any help doing it. There was little testing done in the one-turn campaign I created for that purpose, from which I COULD have gained some insight as to how to set up the others, but I couldn't see just throwing something out there and doing all the work when so few had any interest in it.

    I've pretty much done anything anyone asked me to for this mod, coding wise....but my requirement was always that, "I will do that, but I need your help testing it, refining it, getting it right."
    Without that, it ends up being all ME, and I don't LIKE one turn! So I'm a poor judge of how it should play.
    Dvk, i'm by no mean a professional modder, but if you really intend to "beta" 1 turn to improve it i suggest you open some sort of "official" 1 turn beta test thread, and recruit 10 people who will play 2 factions each, as i doubt the current thread wil provide you with constant and meaninfgul information at the level you expect

    Don't double post. Use the edit button. /apple
    Last edited by apple; September 08, 2010 at 10:32 AM.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Suggestions, issues with One-Turn Campaign

    [QUOTE=Siegfriedfr;8041820]Did a Macedonian and Spartan campaigns up to roughly 30 settlements, my observations so far:

    - Generic regarding RS2 and impacting 1-turn:
    > defense value is too high and battles are dragged out since units hardly ever root because of their high morale, and most units become exhausted long before any meaningful damage has been done, dragging the battle even more into boredom; i halved defense for all infantry in my own EDU and like the result better;
    > too many temples to build, way too many;
    > cavalry units are way too cheap to recruit and upkeep. unless there is a reason for this, cavalry should be more expensive than infantry.




    I agree with Siegfried. Aspects as Defense value,moral and map placement at the start of battles are some aspects that make the battles drag and boring. There is no element of surprise or some small randomness in regards to this. I don't mind the temples. But I don't think most people bother to read the details of each one, its just a bit much.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Suggestions, issues with One-Turn Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by dvk901 View Post
    People, my intention for this thread isn't to start a pissing contest over why we did the one-turn campaign the way we did, or why this or that is the way it is. Read the title carefully. It says "Suggestions, Issues"
    Sorry I upset you dvk901 but your very first post starts with "Please put all your questions" so as I've only played about 15-20 turns and that's all I'll get to play until this weekend I only have questions at the moment.

    I won't ask any more, promise

  17. #17

    Default Re: Suggestions, issues with One-Turn Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by dvk901 View Post
    People, my intention for this thread isn't to start a pissing contest over why we did the one-turn campaign the way we did, or why this or that is the way it is. Read the title carefully. It says "Suggestions, Issues"

    During Beta Testing, I couldn't BUY a one turn tester, and I couldn't kidnap one to test Rome. So I'm not looking for 'why did you do this or that', or accusations that we were lazy. That's BS. The fact is, there was only one person or two interested, and they tested the Barbarian factions briefly. I just didn't have time to the do the testing necessary...so you should be getting the picture here. I'm asking YOU for suggestions and help to make that campaign better.

    There are issues with this campaign, first of all, because it can't have the rebellion as the normal Roman campaign does. That's because the Free Barbarians in the normal Roman campaign are the Roman rebels. But, if I can get some good input about how this campaign should start (for each faction), and how it plays as it's set up now, I may be able to create specific EDB's and EDU's for the other camapigns that would nicely make them one-turn campaigns as well. But without a good deal of testing and input, I couldn't really see myself just taking a stab in the dark and doing that, and then having people tell me it plays like crap.

    So look at the one-turn campaign in RS2 as a test bed for making better ones for the other campaigns, if you would, please.
    LOL...I love the usage of "pissing contest"...I want to thank you for making me spit my coffee out.

  18. #18
    dvk901's Avatar Consummatum est
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    Default Re: Suggestions, issues with One-Turn Campaign

    I'm not upset! I just wanted people to understand that we really had no one to give one turn campaigns the testing that was needed. So either I did it for another 6 months, or we released RS2 and let you guys do it.

    Creator of: "Ecce, Roma Surrectum....Behold, Rome Arises!"
    R.I.P. My Beloved Father

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    Siegfriedfr's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Suggestions, issues with One-Turn Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by dvk901 View Post
    I'm not upset! I just wanted people to understand that we really had no one to give one turn campaigns the testing that was needed. So either I did it for another 6 months, or we released RS2 and let you guys do it.
    Dvk, can you add in your "iExplain" thread why the defense value is so very high?

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    Default Re: Suggestions, issues with One-Turn Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Siegfriedfr View Post
    Dvk, can you add in your "iExplain" thread why the defense value is so very high?
    I would have to let Tone do that, because I had little to do with the unit stats. I do know that we had a lot of help and input from Aradan, but beyond that, it was too much for me to follow or understand what was being done.

    Creator of: "Ecce, Roma Surrectum....Behold, Rome Arises!"
    R.I.P. My Beloved Father

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