the breaking of japan

[frank_garrett]

just wanted to know something.

in the japanese invasion to korea japan were united. it ended in 1598. so why 2 years later there was the battle of sekighara between the east and west. what was the reason for japan to break apart to clans again

[Silhouette]

A lot of it had to do with the fact that Toyotomi, the one who unified the majority of the japanese realm was from a lower class family and thus was rejected to become shogun on multiple occasions. Moreover, his invasion of Japan severely weakened his centralized position by decimating much of his armed force, but more importantly, by underlining the fact that Japan would remain internally focused for a long time. Tokugawa Ieyasu was probably also the highest ranking official in the country underneath Toyotomi, but also considered himself a major contender as shogun and the rightful heir to Toyotomi's realm upon his death. He then became offended by one of Toyotomi's subordinates and used the opportunity to raise an army to claim the shogunate for himself.

There's a lot of really great books about this period if you're really interested in it, and how can you not be? (:

[frank_garrett]

A lot of it had to do with the fact that Toyotomi, the one who unified the majority of the japanese realm was from a lower class family and thus was rejected to become shogun on multiple occasions. Moreover, his invasion of Japan severely weakened his centralized position by decimating much of his armed force, but more importantly, by underlining the fact that Japan would remain internally focused for a long time. Tokugawa Ieyasu was probably also the highest ranking official in the country underneath Toyotomi, but also considered himself a major contender as shogun and the rightful heir to Toyotomi's realm upon his death. He then became offended by one of Toyotomi's subordinates and used the opportunity to raise an army to claim the shogunate for himself.

There's a lot of really great books about this period if you're really interested in it, and how can you not be? (:

i actually prefer movies more. there are any?

[Drakken]

A lot of it had to do with the fact that Toyotomi, the one who unified the majority of the japanese realm was from a lower class family and thus was rejected to become shogun on multiple occasions.

That would have meant nothing if Toyotomi had a mature heir and a secure position after he was gone. And he had one, his nephew, Toyotomi Hidetsugu. He was even made Kanpaku by Hideyoshi, clearly placing him as an acceptable successor.

However, when Hidoyori was born to Yodogimi the latter's position got extremely insecure, and he accumulated blunder over blunder, leading to his seclusion and execution by a clearly declining Hideyoshi. The Hideyoshi of ten years earlier would have never done such a thing as to cull his own heir like that, but there are reasons to believe Hideyoshi was not all there in the last 2-3 years of his life, if you get the meaning. It's possible that Yodogimi had something to do with it, setting a possible Hidetsugu vs child Hideyori possibility in Hideyoshi's mind.

It is Hideyori's minority that ensured that there would be a crisis between who would lead the country until he became of age, or even if they should get rid of Hideyori and the Toyotomi altogether. Had the heir being of age and already secured politically, things would have been very different.

Moreover, his invasion of Japan severely weakened his centralized position by decimating much of his armed force, but more importantly, by underlining the fact that Japan would remain internally focused for a long time.

Agreed. But one argument could be made that it was also to give samurai something to do and cull their ranks, which it did magnificently but highly unbalanced toward massive casualties among Toyotomi vassals. It could have also cimented Ishida Mitsunari as a foil to Tokugawa Ieyasu, but the only thing it cimented was his reputation as a bean-counting, spineless bureaucrat.

Tokugawa Ieyasu was probably also the highest ranking official in the country underneath Toyotomi, but also considered himself a major contender as shogun and the rightful heir to Toyotomi's realm upon his death. He then became offended by one of Toyotomi's subordinates and used the opportunity to raise an army to claim the shogunate for himself.

Ieyasu wasn't the highest ranking. Ishida Mitsunari was. Because as declining as he was, Hideyoshi knew the biggest threat against his legacy was Ieyasu. That is why the Council of Five Elders was heavily weighted against the Tokugawa faction.

Quite a few daimyos were equivalents of Ieyasu in terms of power and prestige, especially the Mori and the Shimazu. Both could have crushed the Ieyasu if they had worked together in an efficient, determined manner.

On paper, Ieyasu should have lost at Sekigahara. He didn't, because Ishida Mitsunari (on SA's website henceforth dubbed Mr. Donut) was a paragon of ineffecient, uncharismatic leadership, who did his best to insult and shrug aside any ally he could gather against Ieyasu. So the Shimazu basically deserted and the Mori fought only half-heartedly, being already divided internally in three factions (pro-Mitsunari, pro-Ieyasu, and in favour of whomever is winning the showdown).

[Silhouette]

Ahhhh drakken, now I can say I learned something new today! (:
+Rep

[familyguy1]

To get most information about Samurai, you will have to read..a lot. Even the good documentaries blend fantasy and reality together.

Unified is not the right word to use. They were not really unified as one people, considering the different clans were still vying for control.. and who was to become Shogun.

[Juggernaut]

He didn't, because Ishida Mitsunari (on SA's website henceforth dubbed Mr. Donut) was a paragon of ineffecient, uncharismatic leadership, who did his best to insult and shrug aside any ally he could gather against Ieyasu. So the Shimazu basically deserted and the Mori fought only half-heartedly, being already divided internally in three factions (pro-Mitsunari, pro-Ieyasu, and in favour of whomever is winning the showdown).

To be fair, I think it was difficult for Mitsunari to have had any kind of leadership, simply because his power and influence was small. He might have been the defacto leader of the Go-Bugyo, but his own holding was merely 210000 koku. It would be pretty difficult to command men like Mori Motonari and Shimazu Yoshihisa who could command tens of thousands of men, while yourself could only mobilize at best 6000. I also think we have to give credit to Ieyasu's subterfuge, who succeeded in turning pretty much half of Mitsunari's army into his side before the battle even began, although Mitsunari's arrogant and head strong nature certainly did help that.

[Devil Shintaro]

Let's not forget Ishida Mitsunari wasn't even the "official" head of the Western Army... Mouri Terumoto was and even he was thinking about joining Ieyasu and the East! Hence the reason he decided to play it safe and not show up for his own battle!!

Mitsunari was just a Toyotomi suck ass plain and simple, he worked his way up licking Hideyoshi's boots nothing more, and unsurprisingly he made many enemies along the way. Even staunch Toyotomi men like Kuroda Kanbei, Fukushima Masanori and Kato Kiyomasa defected to the Eastern Army during Sekigahara such was their hatred for Mitsunari. The Western army was so half hearted and it's members so non-commital anything but a comfortable Eastern victory would of been a huge surprise IMO.