New Nations

[Yahiko_n_Tsubame]

i wouldnt add latvians, cuz they surrendered without fight

Really now? I wonder what history books you've been reading.
The "Latvians" were actually various tribes som of which are also part of modern day Lithuania like the Selonians and Curonians.

Also, some of the tribes in modern day LAtvia were very vicious in their fights against the crusading orders, particularly the Semigallians and the Curonians who both played a major role in some of the large battles such as the Battle of Saule and the Seige of Riga. The Semigallian leader Viestards is also quite a notable person for this period.

Also, When you say Estonians, you should probably specify the tribe on Saaremaa since they were the only Estonians that truely held out for a long period.

[MADTAO]

Hey!
Tnx for interest in mod!

"Baltic Crusades" is a sub mod - conversation of Kingdoms Teuton campaign.

"Baltic: Total War" is Mod wich starts at year 1300 and includes as many factions possible.
But this is not correct , Livonians surendered first, its verry vell written in "Livonian Cronicles".

i mean Livonians and Estonians (last 2 pagan nations to surrender to crusaders)

Yes estonians fighted a bitter and hard, mainly against crusader mercenary looting gangs from Livs, Letts and Slavs from novgorod and Polotck.

i wouldnt add latvians, cuz they surrendered without fight

What do you mean Latvians ? Check out there was Curonians, Semigalls, Lettgalls, Sells at teritoria of todays Latvia in medieval times.

Curonians newer surendered but got extra mercenary deal and even preserve theyr nobility after impresive victories against crusaders like "Battle of Durbe". They attacked Riga by the way.
I could say they get second place after Lithuanians who kept and introduce Duchy de facto independence.
You can still trace Curonian Konung bloodlines today.

Winning manny battles, getting stone keeps, recapturing fortreses (siege of Tervete) and sieging Riga Semmigalls never surrendered but go to exsile to Lithuania after 100!!! years of losing manpower, naturally taking all theyr stuff and move by whole nation abadoning theyr fortreses and terittories.

Lettgalls was weakened by other tribes regular riding the same way as Livs and Estonians so they joined as crusader raiding mercenaries. Getting good loot and learning crusader warfare Letts and Livs fighted side by side against Crusader recent enemies.

There is idea about mod based on early Baltic Crusades like LIVONIA tottal war where is all tribes and much more zoomed camp map. Sorry if i would have all that moding time and criew i think i made the best mods ever

[Meelis13]

Really now? I wonder what history books you've been reading.
The "Latvians" were actually various tribes som of which are also part of modern day Lithuania like the Selonians and Curonians.

Also, some of the tribes in modern day LAtvia were very vicious in their fights against the crusading orders, particularly the Semigallians and the Curonians who both played a major role in some of the large battles such as the Battle of Saule and the Seige of Riga. The Semigallian leader Viestards is also quite a notable person for this period.

Also, When you say Estonians, you should probably specify the tribe on Saaremaa since they were the only Estonians that truely held out for a long period.

Look, i was testing you guys with this Latvia part, i just wanted to get certain replies, thats all. Im sorry if i offended any latvians during process, i apologize.
About Saaremaa: Saaremaa was under siege only 2 times during the whole war: in 1216 an 1227 (true, there was danish fleet raid in start of the war). Most battles were fought by estonians in mainland Estonia and northern Latvia (for example Ümera 1st battle (1210, dunno english name for this battle) wich was fought in north Latvia and estonians won this battle). Main part of the estonian troops came (at start of the war in 1208 til capture) from Ugandi and Sakala counties. But i cant deny importance of Saaremaa during that war: islanders (Saaremaa=island in direct translation, saarlased=islanders) were first of estonians, who started to make catapults and from there crossbows spread across Estonia, making estonians first pagan nation to use crossbows against crusaders more extensively. Saaremaa was also the county, who pushed 1 of many enemies, Sweden out of war for Estonia territory. And yes, by 1216, whole estonian mainland was occupied by crusaders, but Saaremaa win against swedes and oncoming crusaders same year actually set a chain reaction of uprisings and rebellions, setting free all Estonia beside Reval (modern Tallinn, btw Tallinn= Taani linn (danish city)). So, actually most of the battles were on shoulders of Ugandi, Sakala and Saaremaa counties, but estonians (altough they were divided) were still 1 nation.

[Meelis13]

There is idea about mod based on early Baltic Crusades like LIVONIA tottal war where is all tribes and much more zoomed camp map. Sorry if i would have all that moding time and criew i think i made the best mods ever

Correct if im wrong, but aint Livonia total war dead mod or at least in very deep hibernation (i belive this is the term of bears winter sleep). Otherwise, yes, livonia total war would be better for this idea, but since its dead... + i tought it would be excellent ''what if'' nations idea. BTW if you decide to add (yes, i know timeframe is off for these nations to excist, i just need to say it out loud) named nations, i may be able to do SOME research (have very little free time on PC) for estonians and livonians.

"Baltic: Total War" is Mod wich starts at year 1300 and includes as many factions possible.
But this is not correct , Livonians surendered first, its verry vell written in "Livonian Cronicles".

sorry, but i dont get what you mean? If you hint to me, than i NEVER said, who surrendered first (btw, i do know, who surrendered before, cuz in Estonia (yes, i AM an estonian) there is lots of information about livonian and baltic crusades).

[Meelis13]

maybe you do a sub-mod of baltic total war, set in earlier timeframe. if you think its too mutch work, maybe you can ask Livonia total war crew their mod files (theyre mod is dead, but files might still be there)?

[The Kybrothilian]

How about adding Tavastia and/or Karelia as an faction? Since Finlnad is partially in the map, there sould be atleast one finnish faction there (Unless the mod campaign starts after 1250, which then I strongly recommend to make it start earlier)

Or atleast don't do the same mistake as creative assembly and many other mod teams, and add Helsinki as an settlement. It was founded in 1550, not before 1080, and never was an castle.

[EarendilElenthol]

Scutarilegion, look at the map in another thread here, and the timescale of 1280-1300 until 1450. Then you will see Abo (Turku), Tavastehus (Hameenlinna), Borga (Porvoo), and Viborg and ports on historical locations as well.

[The Kybrothilian]

Scutarilegion, look at the map in another thread here, and the timescale of 1280-1300 until 1450. Then you will see Abo (Turku), Tavastehus (Hameenlinna), Borga (Porvoo), and Viborg and ports on historical locations as well.

found the thread. Actually it's historally inaccurate to place Viborg under Novgorodian rule, since Sweden had it since it's founding until 1703.

[_Tartaros_]

i think the map shows that vyborg is under swedish control

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/attac...1&d=1294733838

[Neige]

Are AOR units for TO planned for any future updates? The order levied the conquered Baltic tribes into their army. They would have low morale though because in many instances they switched sides as soon as the battle began.

[Propaganda]

First if somebody wants to add Livonian order then they need first totaly redone Estonian & Latvian campaign map.

[Diamond]

Sweden had the strongest military in the world coming out of the middle ages

[Seinine]

For Livonian and teutonic order, use the kalmar script.