The Walking Dead: TV Series (Comic spoilers in tags with warning)

**Kip** · December 03, 2013, 01:37 PM

What they really needed to do is show us (or at least tell us) that this new group suffered at the hands of other survivor groups, and then I'd buy their motivation for following the Governor more. There were two major clues we saw to their group's mentality. First, the tank-driver and his brother got into an argument over raiding that random camp for supplies. This tells us that this group hasn't had to do anything evil yet to survive. They were still in the "humane" stage of survival, in that they didn't need to hurt others to be safe. Second, the group raised a ruckus when Martinez was killed, upset that they weren't going to vote for leader. We have a group that hasn't needed to do "evil", following the orders of a man they didn't elect. The Governor's charisma is another variable, sure, but Woodbury actually did suffer at the hands of Rick's group, these new people didn't. With all that in mind the attack still feels weirdly out of place to me.

As for Herschel: If Guv believed Herschel was the more valuable hostage (which could certainly be true, that's a very good thought I hadn't considered), then why doesn't the Governor put one in Michonne's head before attacking the prison and simply lug Herschel along as the sole hostage? In the circumstance the writers created, Michonne does not live if the Governor behaves like the Governor.

I agree with you concerning the battle itself, but I too can forgive these as simple television action tropes.

**chamaeleo** · December 03, 2013, 04:02 PM

True, they seemed largely untested in the 'performing evil' department but they'd witnessed plenty first hand. Knowing the fate of the 'missed opportunity' group, losing two leaders in about as many days (?), and new leader talks a good backstory behind his patch...the cumulative effect of these items plus abject fear of not knowing where else to go/do, makes the collective decision to evict Rick et al not entirely unreasonable. It's the hasty kind of decision that sounds good when you make it, but falls apart upon execution...which is basically what happened.

If Guv killed Michonne before the standoff, I don't think his new group would've followed him to the prison. I guess he should've killed her before dragging Herschel back to camp.

I just can't believe that at this stage, there are still hapless groups running around in caravans picking through debris for vittles...and they have yet to at least circle the vehicles, build stockades (instead of digging huge pits!) etc...

**trance** · December 03, 2013, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by Lord of the Drunk Penguin

Okay, in a 1950's era tank, you need a loader and a gunner to fire the tank.
The driver can't fire.

This isn't Battlefield 1942 where you just jump in tank and can magically shoot it afterwards.
Plus, it doesn't look that they had tankers in the first place to tell them about loading and securing a breech of a cannon.

It's fully plausible for a tank driver to operate a tank on his own. It will be a lot slower, and you won't be able to shoot and move at the same time, but it's still possible. Also possible to train someone else to be a loader, even if the tank driver has to shoot, it would increase firing rate.

**maxi90** · December 03, 2013, 06:46 PM

Boy, the Season 3 finale sure was fun to watch!

**Kip** · December 03, 2013, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by chamaeleo

True, they seemed largely untested in the 'performing evil' department but they'd witnessed plenty first hand. Knowing the fate of the 'missed opportunity' group, losing two leaders in about as many days (?), and new leader talks a good backstory behind his patch...the cumulative effect of these items plus abject fear of not knowing where else to go/do, makes the collective decision to evict Rick et al not entirely unreasonable. It's the hasty kind of decision that sounds good when you make it, but falls apart upon execution...which is basically what happened.

If Guv killed Michonne before the standoff, I don't think his new group would've followed him to the prison. I guess he should've killed her before dragging Herschel back to camp.

I just can't believe that at this stage, there are still hapless groups running around in caravans picking through debris for vittles...and they have yet to at least circle the vehicles, build stockades (instead of digging huge pits!) etc...

That's fair. I just wish we'd been given more time to learn about these people a little more. We got to know Woodbury for a whole season, and their plotline conclusion ended with a giant fart sound. We only knew these new survivors for 1.5 episodes and they steamrolled the prison off the map.

Also I totally agree! They should all just move into Morgan's fortress-town. One man kept that entire place clean thanks to rat-traps and sharp sticks. And hey, they even have a little girl that's obsessed with rodent dissection already!

Originally Posted by maxi90

Boy, the Season 3 finale sure was fun to watch!

^lol, if only it were true

**maxi90** · December 04, 2013, 03:06 PM

You mean that it wasn´t the S3 finale, or the part about it being fun?

In all seriousness, the episode was a mess. An entretaining mess, but still...

Why did everybody decide to follow this one guy they have barely known for a week or so to go attack another group of people that has never done any harm to them? Why didn´t anybody rise their hands when Rick offered them shelter? Why didn´t the tank guy tell the rest that this "Brian" was a raging psycopath that had killed his brother? Why are they assuming it is "safer" to be camping next to a river? Do they think all the zombies live only on the other shore or what? Why is it that they start tearing the prison apart with that tank? Wasn´t they wanting to live there the only motivation they had to attack the prison in the first place? Seriously, these guys just heard this plan a few hours ago and they are all immediatly on board with it in spite that we didn´t get any clue that this group was particulary violent (quite the contrary, in fact), but when the crazy man that is now in comang executes a prisoner for no reason they all just start tearing

up. How is it that Michonne can just roll back half a meter and escape? Did everybody forgot about her or did she just turned invisible? Maybe they do have some memory issues, be cause they completly forgot about Rick hiding behind the bus just a few seconds later. Why did the kids left the baby on the ground instead of leaving him on the ground? Also, can anyone tell me at which point did Daryl became a parody of himself? I mean, he was always kind of ridiculous but this episode turned him into freaking Rambo 5.

And so many more, but I´m tired.

**Pinarius** · December 04, 2013, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by maxi90

You mean that it wasn´t the S3 finale, or the part about it being fun?

In all seriousness, the episode was a mess. An entretaining mess, but still...

Why did everybody decide to follow this one guy they have barely known for a week or so to go attack another group of people that has never done any harm to them? Why didn´t anybody rise their hands when Rick offered them shelter? Why didn´t the tank guy tell the rest that this "Brian" was a raging psycopath that had killed his brother? Why are they assuming it is "safer" to be camping next to a river?

They were just like my people 80 years ago.

**B-DizL** · December 04, 2013, 05:02 PM

Why did the kids left the baby on the ground instead of leaving him on the ground?

Wow excellent point

For the few people who watch the show and actually like it check out this article where they talk about why it was a great episode.

http://io9.com/the-walking-dead-just...-an-1474855896

**Lord of the Drunk Penguin** · December 04, 2013, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by trance

It's fully plausible for a tank driver to operate a tank on his own. It will be a lot slower, and you won't be able to shoot and move at the same time, but it's still possible. Also possible to train someone else to be a loader, even if the tank driver has to shoot, it would increase firing rate.

Are drivers trained to be gunner as well?
I doubt he'd be able to teach other people how to fire the cannon.

Anyway, for the sake of argument, let's say you're right.
Could someone pierce through someone else with a katana, like Michonne did in the finale?

**maxi90** · December 04, 2013, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by B-DizL

Wow excellent point

Typo. Why did they left the baby on the ground instead of leaving him in the bus?

It was a very long day.

For the few people who watch the show and actually like it check out this article where they talk about why it was a great episode.

http://io9.com/the-walking-dead-just...-an-1474855896

Feel free to go back and look for all the times I actually said good things about this show, both this season and in former seasons as well. If you are in denaial of how crappy it has become, that´s your problem. I remember an article that claimed the Dexter finale was some sort of genius, including the final scene where we see that he became a lumberjack. That´s the thing with the media, a thousand people will have a thousand opinions about the same thing.

**Kip** · December 04, 2013, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by B-DizL

Wow excellent point

For the few people who watch the show and actually like it check out this article where they talk about why it was a great episode.

http://io9.com/the-walking-dead-just...-an-1474855896

From my standpoint, that article is apologetic and flat out denies the biggest flaws in this episode, but as maxi says opinions are opinions. I do enjoy the show, really. I wouldn't watch it if I didn't! I just think it could be much, much, much better. Right now it's a popcorn muncher. Many shows are satisfied to just be a popcorn muncher, but Walking Dead aspires to be something more resonant and the results are frequently poor. It could be so much better than that if it didn't fall for all the easy writing traps it currently blunders into on a near-weekly basis.

**~~Pontifex Maximus~~** · December 05, 2013, 11:10 AM

I've been very critical of this season so far, but I liked the half season finale because it is finally going to provide some movement and closure. The Guvnah's dead, the prison is breached, and we can finally get along with the plot. I'm glad Carl, Rick, Michonne, and Darrel are still alive because they are the ones that keep me interested in the show. The others could die and I wouldn't care. Too bad Herschel had to die - but I understand why. How long would a one-legged elderly man last in this new world anyway, with little to no medical support?

The tank part confused me, as it takes a crew to operate a tank. I'm giving them a pass on this one stupid hole because it isn't like we had a camera in the tank seeing how things went down. I don't see why a single man could stop the tank, load the cannon, and fire it and then keep rolling forward.

The biggest hole I saw was the Governor's new group. Why would they be ok with the tank rolling over the fence if their goal was to capture the prison intact? That part doesn't make sense, but then again a prolonged siege doesn't make for good TV.

**eisenkopf** · December 06, 2013, 03:38 AM

Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus

I've been very critical of this season so far, but I liked the half season finale because it is finally going to provide some movement and closure. The Guvnah's dead, the prison is breached, and we can finally get along with the plot. I'm glad Carl, Rick, Michonne, and Darrel are still alive because they are the ones that keep me interested in the show. The others could die and I wouldn't care. Too bad Herschel had to die - but I understand why. How long would a one-legged elderly man last in this new world anyway, with little to no medical support?

The tank part confused me, as it takes a crew to operate a tank. I'm giving them a pass on this one stupid hole because it isn't like we had a camera in the tank seeing how things went down. I don't see why a single man could stop the tank, load the cannon, and fire it and then keep rolling forward.

The biggest hole I saw was the Governor's new group. Why would they be ok with the tank rolling over the fence if their goal was to capture the prison intact? That part doesn't make sense, but then again a prolonged siege doesn't make for good TV.

It's funny how people see exactly the same episode, yet get upset about different things

The tank part didn't bother me in the least, because the group of the Governor was either green (the civilians) and had no combat experience, or incredibly dumb (the ex-soldier operating the tank). To the contrary, I wondered how well-organized the attack was given that they had not much combat experience and all of sudden all hell broke loose, while they were expecting (and hoping for) a peaceful solution. What struck me as a big plot hole was the sudden absence of zombies. I mean, all the time there are constantly huge hordes of zombies almost breaking throught the fences, and the humans barely succeed in killing enough of them to avoid it. Yet just right now, when most of the group is taken out by disease and they operate with a fraction of the man-power, they manage to kill each and every single one of the zombies around. And tank driving around - if that doesn't draw hordes of zombies, I don't know what.

About the characters - well, I said before that only three of them were ever interesting to me, and two of them are dead and the third in exile. The rest are all one-dimensional parodies. Rick should be the one who's the most interesting from a character development point of view, but the script does not treat him nicely, and the rest is ruined by terrible acting. That's why I'm out - all the characters that kept me going are gone...

**chamaeleo** · December 06, 2013, 01:07 PM

There'll be new characters...maybe they'll be interesting? And Carol's not dead: perhaps we'll see her reprising Tina Turner's role in a perversion of Bartertown? I simply can't write off the show no matter how ridiculously bad/good it gets. I just enjoy the genre too much. Besides, 'cheesy' and 'zombie' are traditional bedfellows. Shunning a zombie show for being bad is just silly...what did you expect? Would you watch pro wrestling to learn effective hand to hand combat techniques?

Hey, why do we all seem to think there's only one guy in the tank? I just assumed the dude trained up a few greenhorns to work the cannon...and it'd be pure stupid for every tanker to pop his head out of a hatch so the audience can take a headcount.

Tellin' you people: once you learn to expect the plentiful stupids, you can better enjoy the occasional smarts.

I'm w Pontifex: hooray! Story's just lurched along into a new and unknown arc, and now we can all quit speculating how much excess mileage they'll be milking from the prison.

**maxi90** · December 06, 2013, 06:27 PM

Carol will be back for sure.

**trance** · December 10, 2013, 04:41 AM

Originally Posted by Lord of the Drunk Penguin

Are drivers trained to be gunner as well?
I doubt he'd be able to teach other people how to fire the cannon.

Anyway, for the sake of argument, let's say you're right.
Could someone pierce through someone else with a katana, like Michonne did in the finale?

They aren't trained AFAIK but they can still do it, at least in older vehicles. I know there are examples of lone men operating armored vehicles, but at very limited effeciency. Have in mind that the type of combat a gunner would be trained to engage in would be approximately 2000+ meters for an M60 patton. A modern tank can reliably engage targets at 5000m range. Combat in question is carried out in close quarters 50-150 meters.

Of course. Even though it might break if forced against bone etc. You can penetrate human flesh with a freaking pencil you know

. Getting it in there isn't the problem, getting it out unscathed might another question entirely.