The Walking Dead: TV Series (Comic spoilers in tags with warning)

[Vanoi]

Rick is crazy.

[StealthFox]

I was disappointed with this episode. Too predictable and too cheesy at times. Prime example is:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Rick and others coming in at just the right time to save Darryl and Merle.

[chamaeleo]

I was disappointed with this episode. Too predictable and too cheesy at times. Prime example is:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Rick and others coming in at just the right time to save Darryl and Merle.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

They realized he was missing right away. Why wouldn't they head right back, after the arena lights up and upon hearing angry 'rabblerabblerabble' noises? Seems reasonable enough to me.

What was unreasonable, was Maggie on sniper duty NOT shooting the guv...considering what he'd done to her. Where's your target priorities, sis?

Coming from the comics I didn't like the TV guv at first, but now I actually think the onscreen depiction is much more realistic. Especially having recently read the two (excruciatingly dull & horribly written) backstory novels. He's an insecure coward at heart, which was well reflected in his portrayal last night.

[Lumina]

Personally The Walking Dead is becoming too human vs human in a human vs zombie world. Similar to Battlestar Galactica.

In short it's getting ruined, by making zombies no longer as huge of a threat they used to be, and throwing people in as a far larger threat.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Because seriously, I don't care what kinda bull crap you go through in life, no one rarely looses their humanity to the point that every possible person in the world is now your enemy. As rick is viewing people now days.

I'd understand not trusting people, but when you're in a situation surrounded by angry indians, "zombies" you just don't throw away every chance to get helping hands. I'd think rick would of learned that after "HE" was partly responsible for his wife's death by acting like that.

I'm most disappointed in Rick as a character, but sadly he isn't the only one. They've ruined him personally.

Personally they're showing the weakness of humanity, not the strengths of humanity, which is making this show unacceptably depressing at times. The show used to be so inspiring at first, how people would survive/work together during such a crisis. Even in conflict with others. Basically it's taking a War of the Worlds Steven Spielberg approuch rather than a 2012 approuch to human behavior. In time of crisis you'd hope people would be less selfish, people need to be shown/tought to be less selfish, a show like this just makes you think people would become selfish. Uninspiring.

[Lord of the Drunk Penguin]

Personally The Walking Dead is becoming too human vs human in a human vs zombie world. Similar to Battlestar Galactica.

In short it's getting ruined, by making zombies no longer as huge of a threat they used to be, and throwing people in as a far larger threat.

Just you wait, there's a monstrous crowd the size of Seattle just lurking around the corner.
Next issue. Definitely.

All that will remain will be Glen and his baseball cap and his Asian good looks and.... No wait.

I just remembered.
Now I'm sad.

Also, your nickname means Light in Latin & Romanian. I love it.

[Claudius Gothicus]

Because seriously, I don't care what kinda bull crap you go through in life, no one rarely looses their humanity to the point that every possible person in the world is now your enemy. As rick is viewing people now days.

I'd understand not trusting people, but when you're in a situation surrounded by angry indians, "zombies" you just don't throw away every chance to get helping hands. I'd think rick would of learned that after "HE" was partly responsible for his wife's death by acting like that.

Whenever someone argues that extreme situations are not that much of an incentive to rapidly lose our humanity I remember the Milgram Experiment. Seriously, give individuals the right incentives(life or death situations) and deprive them of alternatives (like what happens when Armed Forces and Law Enforcement disappear) and all humanity will come crushing rather fast.

I'm not saying natural empathy disappears, no, but in many cases it's overruled by little time and little alternatives.

There's also quite a few ingredients in the "losing humanity" mix as well: fatigue, shell shock, emotional repression, extreme responsibility and varying degrees of group pressure.

[brandbll]

Am i the only person who thinks that they sort of killed the intimidation of the Governor by killing what was Woodbury? It really pissed me off when Carol said, "they have us outgunned." It's like, how the hell did she know that? And not only that, didn't seem to me that they were outgunned. They just walked on in and whooped that town's ass and took two of their people back. And on top of that, we even saw everyone in the town panicking for their lives trying to leave, and the only people guarding the doors were like 4 guys and none of them were that heavily armed. Not only that, but they lost their muscle when Daryl's brother left. Seems they sort of sucked out any suspense regarding a confrontation between the two groups. Hell, if i were in the prison i'd be more worried about Rick walking around mumbling pointing his gun at random people like he's working for the LAPD...

[MrMofo]

Whenever someone argues that extreme situations are not that much of an incentive to rapidly lose our humanity I remember the Milgram Experiment. Seriously, give individuals the right incentives(life or death situations) and deprive them of alternatives (like what happens when Armed Forces and Law Enforcement disappear) and all humanity will come crushing rather fast.

I'm not saying natural empathy disappears, no, but in many cases it's overruled by little time and little alternatives.

There's also quite a few ingredients in the "losing humanity" mix as well: fatigue, shell shock, emotional repression, extreme responsibility and varying degrees of group pressure.

Dig further into the Milgram experiment. What most people hear about are only the preliminary study. Everything after that essentially refuted the initial findings, and essentially states the OPPOSITE of what everyone cites it for.

There's a really good podcast of Radiolab about it, iirc.

[PointOfViewGun]

The Walking Dead is famous for having all characters as expendable but I kinda want to Rick to stay strong.

[Moorish guy]

Perhaps Rick is just insecure, he says many of the other strong members of the group as threats to his ricktatorship,micchonne, Daryl tyreese also I can't believe that those two jokers from tyreese's band thought they could take on Carl he'd eat them alive.

[Claudius Gothicus]

Dig further into the Milgram experiment. What most people hear about are only the preliminary study. Everything after that essentially refuted the initial findings, and essentially states the OPPOSITE of what everyone cites it for.

There's a really good podcast of Radiolab about it, iirc.

I know of the variations, the decreasing compliance when the position of the "victim" was closer to that of the executor. But come on, these are different motivations... the individuals stranded in a TWD scenario can hardly appeal to options of humanity, non-violent resistance to authority and nonconformity with the same ease that individuals living in a modern and law-abiding society.

The little chances of survival and the generally precarious situation are what explains the efficient yet ruthless actions of people like the governor and his minions, the volatile decisions of Rick in the season 2 finale and the "not-so-warm" welcome to Tyreese's group.

[paradamed]

I was expecting a little more creativity regarding the merle daryl situation. Rick is a little bit too paranoid. He wouldnt trust not even his dad to join the group.

[Pontifex Maximus]

1. I've heard a little criticism about the human vs human aspect and I tend to agree. I think the show should refocus on survival/zombies. Then again anyone who has been to south/central Georgia would sympathize with the people in the town and their deranged games. That place is so boring and drains the life out of you

2. I'd like them to start exploring other viable options. Clearly zombies can't climb, so how about instead of seeking shelter in an isolated, poorly lit and labyrinthine jail we go back to our roots and take to the trees or tall buildings or something? I mean hell, the Swiss Family Robinson could have lived quite peacefully up to this point.

3. I want to hear less from Rick, Glenn, Maggie and Hershel - I want to hear more from Carl, Richonne and Carol (other than baby stuff I couldn't care less about)

[EireEmerald]

Rick made quite the first impression on them ^^

[chamaeleo]

1. I've heard a little criticism about the human vs human aspect and I tend to agree. I think the show should refocus on survival/zombies. Then again anyone who has been to south/central Georgia would sympathize with the people in the town and their deranged games. That place is so boring and drains the life out of you

2. I'd like them to start exploring other viable options. Clearly zombies can't climb, so how about instead of seeking shelter in an isolated, poorly lit and labyrinthine jail we go back to our roots and take to the trees or tall buildings or something? I mean hell, the Swiss Family Robinson could have lived quite peacefully up to this point.

3. I want to hear less from Rick, Glenn, Maggie and Hershel - I want to hear more from Carl, Richonne and Carol (other than baby stuff I couldn't care less about)

1. If the human/human interactions weren't so wooden and superficial, I would disagree. Enduring such a cataclysmic world cannot help but warp a survivor and there is a real untapped goldmine of psychological material that's been largely limited to Rick's hallucinations and paranoia.

There's so much to explore yet the cyclical pattern of calm-madness-recovery is getting a little old...so yeah, I do agree, Severus...they might as well mix it up in the action department! So many protagonists: rednecks, cannibals, petty despots, bandits, pirates, mega-herds, religious cults, survivalists, established strongholds, etc..

2. My constant frustration with the zombie genre!

* Tripwires to drop em into killzones.
* Herding them off cliffs.
* Running them over with heavy machinery.
* Luring them into firetraps and choke-points, or away from places of safety, or out of dark, dangerous lurking places, or even towards Woodbury.
* Constructing corrals, impediments, attractive beacons, etc.
* Employing the local phone book + map to locate prime looting locations, and plan access.
* Two-man kill teams.
* Systematic, hit & run "Diablo II" mob fighting tactics.
* Short, stabby, heavy thrusting weapons.
* Limiting yelling and other unnecessarily loud behavior (you'd think by now everyone would be whispering purely out of habit, environmental situation warranted or not).
* Securing chainlink gates with faster, quickdraw-style carabiner based lock mechanisms instead of lock+chain+keyring/3 dozen keys.
* Ending the now customary, albeit needlessly loud and wasteful point-blank pistol executions of solitary, low-threat walkers...when just a simple kack to the head will suffice.
* Wearing motorcycle-style leather/kevlar protective gear and getting all stompy with steel-toed boots.
* Aiming with two hands.
* Placing emergency evac caches of weapons, food, water, etc everywhere.
* Hell: carrying a handweapon (or 3) everywhere!

Indeed, tactical creativity hasn't evolved beyond haphazardly addressing immediate self-defense concerns. No forward anticipation of anything, ever. They apparently never thought to even perform a perimeter check on the jail...IDK, do they even intend to clear the place? Did they ever secure the clinic (where Lori COULD have been chilling in style on her D-day)? Or the armory? I won't even get into the practical survival stuff, like food, water, conservation of finite and rapidly dwindling resources...

Seems to me that the writers aren't asking themselves (or anybody) "what would I do?" often enough. The prison's a pretty cush location, but far too attractive for a small group to hold against a larger threat. As I'm sure we will soon find out. Assuming zombies cannot climb an anchor chain or swim, I'd head towards a major river and secure a houseboat, build a fleet and eventually acquire a big-ass paddleboat. You could raid the shorelines forever in relative safety, never worry about drinking water or sanitation issues, eat fresh fish, and always have a rapid egress from hordes. Although flood season might present a new set of interesting problems!

3. I most enjoy a revolving character focus. Too much of any one of these characters for too long only drags the pace down a notch (or in the case of S2, 3-4 notches), and highlights the show's shortcomings...


I know I shouldn't be so critical. The show is, at its core, entertaining. Even though building empathy for the characters is difficult/impossible, their behavior is illogical and frustrating, and the plot frequently gets mired in trivial, largely avoidable events. Beats reality TV.

[tarvu]

1. If the human/human interactions weren't so wooden and superficial, I would disagree. Enduring such a cataclysmic world cannot help but warp a survivor and there is a real untapped goldmine of psychological material that's been largely limited to Rick's hallucinations and paranoia.

There's so much to explore yet the cyclical pattern of calm-madness-recovery is getting a little old...so yeah, I do agree, Severus...they might as well mix it up in the action department! So many protagonists: rednecks, cannibals, petty despots, bandits, pirates, mega-herds, religious cults, survivalists, established strongholds, etc..

2. My constant frustration with the zombie genre!

* Tripwires to drop em into killzones.
* Herding them off cliffs.
* Running them over with heavy machinery.
* Luring them into firetraps and choke-points, or away from places of safety, or out of dark, dangerous lurking places, or even towards Woodbury.
* Constructing corrals, impediments, attractive beacons, etc.
* Employing the local phone book + map to locate prime looting locations, and plan access.
* Two-man kill teams.
* Systematic, hit & run "Diablo II" mob fighting tactics.
* Short, stabby, heavy thrusting weapons.
* Limiting yelling and other unnecessarily loud behavior (you'd think by now everyone would be whispering purely out of habit, environmental situation warranted or not).
* Securing chainlink gates with faster, quickdraw-style carabiner based lock mechanisms instead of lock+chain+keyring/3 dozen keys.
* Ending the now customary, albeit needlessly loud and wasteful point-blank pistol executions of solitary, low-threat walkers...when just a simple kack to the head will suffice.
* Wearing motorcycle-style leather/kevlar protective gear and getting all stompy with steel-toed boots.
* Aiming with two hands.
* Placing emergency evac caches of weapons, food, water, etc everywhere.
* Hell: carrying a handweapon (or 3) everywhere!

Indeed, tactical creativity hasn't evolved beyond haphazardly addressing immediate self-defense concerns. No forward anticipation of anything, ever. They apparently never thought to even perform a perimeter check on the jail...IDK, do they even intend to clear the place? Did they ever secure the clinic (where Lori COULD have been chilling in style on her D-day)? Or the armory? I won't even get into the practical survival stuff, like food, water, conservation of finite and rapidly dwindling resources...

Seems to me that the writers aren't asking themselves (or anybody) "what would I do?" often enough. The prison's a pretty cush location, but far too attractive for a small group to hold against a larger threat. As I'm sure we will soon find out. Assuming zombies cannot climb an anchor chain or swim, I'd head towards a major river and secure a houseboat, build a fleet and eventually acquire a big-ass paddleboat. You could raid the shorelines forever in relative safety, never worry about drinking water or sanitation issues, eat fresh fish, and always have a rapid egress from hordes. Although flood season might present a new set of interesting problems!

3. I most enjoy a revolving character focus. Too much of any one of these characters for too long only drags the pace down a notch (or in the case of S2, 3-4 notches), and highlights the show's shortcomings...


I know I shouldn't be so critical. The show is, at its core, entertaining. Even though building empathy for the characters is difficult/impossible, their behavior is illogical and frustrating, and the plot frequently gets mired in trivial, largely avoidable events. Beats reality TV.

The blanket excuse for all of this I think is look at everyone they lost already. They simply do not want to take what they see as unnecessary risks. They do clear out many areas, they do the two man hunting thing at times, they have the knives they use to kill the zombies through the fence, but in general they try to avoid zombies because of the risk associated.

Even being prepared and using sound tactics this isn't a video game there is a risk of someone falling down or being overwhelmed or unintentionally surrounded while trying to massacre a group of zombies. These are civilians, and even "capable" individuals like Shane, Rick or Daryl/Merle do not want to take a big risk with their lives just to kill more zombies.

There is seemingly an endless supply of zombies so it might be fruitless anyways, and what you describe is likely what the military had tried to do but obviously in this timeline had failed. So I wouldn't expect at this point at least for survivors to do anything but try and survive with hiding being their first fall back tactic.

[chamaeleo]

I can accept the lack of development in combat tactics, because you are correct Tarvu: the situation is bleak at best, and very likely impossible. It makes sense to minimize risk. Avoiding unnecessary fights is a good idea. But then so is conserving ammo, being quiet and limiting exposure, taking out targets of opportunity, and preparing for the inevitable over-run perimeter scenario by stashing emergency bug-out gear. And after a few months of day-to-day survival you would expect many kinds of adaptive response to evolve, simple changes, as well as drastic ones such as Michonne's escort.

I see a lot my list as not so much a video-game kind of response, but more of a partisan guerilla warfare / herd management problem. Use the terrain and their behavior to your best advantage. Figure out ways to safely consolidate and liquidate before their numbers exceed manageable levels. Basically, anticipate problems before they occur. Zombies should be the substantial yet manageable risk, leaving other survivor groups as the true wildcard.

[tarvu]

I can accept the lack of development in combat tactics, because you are correct Tarvu: the situation is bleak at best, and very likely impossible. It makes sense to minimize risk. Avoiding unnecessary fights is a good idea. But then so is conserving ammo, being quiet and limiting exposure, taking out targets of opportunity, and preparing for the inevitable over-run perimeter scenario by stashing emergency bug-out gear. And after a few months of day-to-day survival you would expect many kinds of adaptive response to evolve, simple changes, as well as drastic ones such as Michonne's escort.

I see a lot my list as not so much a video-game kind of response, but more of a partisan guerilla warfare / herd management problem. Use the terrain and their behavior to your best advantage. Figure out ways to safely consolidate and liquidate before their numbers exceed manageable levels. Basically, anticipate problems before they occur. Zombies should be the substantial yet manageable risk, leaving other survivor groups as the true wildcard.

I just think it would take a long time before people could treat zombies as manageable.

I mean they've seen everyone they know killed and then turned into zombies themselves, even being bitten has a chance to kill you. It is like having large herds of human sized venomous snakes that feel no pain and have an unquenchable drive to kill you.

Humans have never dealt with anything like that before, and I think it would just take a while to both develop safe tactics and then to be convinced that you should risk undertaking them.

The show is called the Walking Dead and all of them including Carl have accepted that they are going to be killed by these zombies. I don't think anyone is even optimistic enough to start talking about long term strategies of dealing with the zombies.

[Claudius Gothicus]

What I do see as realistic is the general "reaction" to a zombie apocalypse situation on the part of the survivors:

- "Hunter-gatherer" communities that move around possible food/utilities sources.
- Violent interaction between groups and rapid assimilation of isolated or sparsely found individuals. (these situation arise due to the general feeling of insecurity, to avoid threatening the commanding authority of each group and the possibly not-so-cool individuals who originally survived and thrived in such a world).
- Generally avoiding large cities and population centres.
- The fact that for the survivors, after a while, zombies turn into a complex yet not-so-threatening "part of the environment", something that might angry a few but's quite realistic at the end.

What I do see as unrealistic on the show:

- The absolute lack of organized military groups or governmental authorities (I can try to understand why they got overrun in the first place, but unless the virus/bacteria is airborne and expanded all along the earth's atmosphere there would be local, overseas, distant and fleet units hanging around somewhere, quite organized and with unbroken chains of command).
- The unexplained weaponry "purchases", for example in season 3 Rick's group shows up with several US army M4 carabines, automatic rifles etc.
- The episode where the director was presenting the viewers with "the ruthless and power hungry" governor, decided that it would be a good idea to have an entire platoon of US soldiers easily getting killed by a bunch of civilians. That's unrealistic, because those soldiers(clearly watching the perimeter) were so stupid that they did not see Merle & Co. crawling through the field.
- The somewhat absolute inability of group leaders to hold peace-talks, treaties or just quit shooting each other for a while. I understand everyone distrust everyone, that these are mostly regular or average joes dealing with leader roles, that resources are scarce and expectations to survive all but come on...

[PointOfViewGun]

- The absolute lack of organized military groups or governmental authorities (I can try to understand why they got overrun in the first place, but unless the virus/bacteria is airborne and expanded all along the earth's atmosphere there would be local, overseas, distant and fleet units hanging around somewhere, quite organized and with unbroken chains of command).

When Shane died and turned to a walker without ever being bitten by one they realized that everybody was somehow infected. If I remember correctly the guy at CDC also said something like that.

The remote military bases should still be secure though. The problem is that those soldiers also have families. It should be very hard to keep a company together.