The Stainless Steel Traits & Ancillaries Improvement Project (SSTAIP) - Merged into SSMAP!

[birdy51]

This is sort of a random idea, but when a general from Egypt invades a region such as the area that is now Russia, it would be very likely that the general would not be used to the conditions that the Rus are already accustomed to. Therefore, perhap generals should get a trait that focuses on their home terrain.

When they are not in their home element, they may not recieve bonuses, or they can be hindered. Over time, the Egyption general may become used the frozen north, and may be able to change his home terrain trait. So basically...

"Desert General" - This unit has been born in the raised in arid Desert conditions.

+1 Command when fighting on Desert Terrain. 5% movement speed bonus on Desert Terrain.
-1 Command when fighting on Snow Terrain. 5% movement speed cut on Snow terrain.

To counter this, if your general resides in a city with an Explorer's Guild, you may have the chance to receive a "guide" who can help counter the natural disadvantages that a general may have.


Either way, I'm just throwing my own ideas about. Good luck!

[Fair Prince]

This is sort of a random idea, but when a general from Egypt invades a region such as the area that is now Russia, it would be very likely that the general would not be used to the conditions that the Rus are already accustomed to. Therefore, perhap generals should get a trait that focuses on their home terrain.

When they are not in their home element, they may not recieve bonuses, or they can be hindered. Over time, the Egyption general may become used the frozen north, and may be able to change his home terrain trait. So basically...

"Desert General" - This unit has been born in the raised in arid Desert conditions.

+1 Command when fighting on Desert Terrain. 5% movement speed bonus on Desert Terrain.
-1 Command when fighting on Snow Terrain. 5% movement speed cut on Snow terrain.

To counter this, if your general resides in a city with an Explorer's Guild, you may have the chance to receive a "guide" who can help counter the natural disadvantages that a general may have.


Either way, I'm just throwing my own ideas about. Good luck!

The idea is good, though I'm not sure if the Command bonus could be linked to the type of terrain - I remember that something similar was included in RTW, but it's doubtful if it remained in M2TW. Maybe the terrain factor could be replaced with home/foreign effect, but I'm not sure if that's feasible either.
Anyway, thanks for the tip! (+rep)

[Dagda]

How do I install this?

[Fatecheater]

Dear,

I love this idea of extra ancillaries and traits, but are you certain that there should be benefits for the "Of Royal relation" traits? If so, people will most likely try to obtain marriages from as many factions as possible to get a super-human family with 4 Chivalry, tons of Law, 1 plus to Command, and movement point, piety,.... I believe something like that is... wrong, since not everyone at 14 can be such a genius, gameplay-wise.

[Fair Prince]

How do I install this?

Nohow, as the mod is not released yet.

Dear,

I love this idea of extra ancillaries and traits, but are you certain that there should be benefits for the "Of Royal relation" traits? If so, people will most likely try to obtain marriages from as many factions as possible to get a super-human family with 4 Chivalry, tons of Law, 1 plus to Command, and movement point, piety,.... I believe something like that is... wrong, since not everyone at 14 can be such a genius, gameplay-wise.

Well, I think these bonuses are too petty to gain significant advantage from them, but nevertheless, I'll keep your remark in mind! (+rep)

[TwinBird]

Dear,

I love this idea of extra ancillaries and traits, but are you certain that there should be benefits for the "Of Royal relation" traits? If so, people will most likely try to obtain marriages from as many factions as possible to get a super-human family with 4 Chivalry, tons of Law, 1 plus to Command, and movement point, piety,.... I believe something like that is... wrong, since not everyone at 14 can be such a genius, gameplay-wise.

My Of Conquered Blood submod gives bonuses to royal relations, but at the cost of loyalty. You'll be able to absorb some royals but too many and they could rebel.

[Dagda]

Nohow, as the mod is not released yet.

Oh. What's the attached file in the OP for?

[Fair Prince]

Oh. What's the attached file in the OP for?

It's just a file that lists all the in-game traits and ancillaries, and also contains some proposals of mine.
I plan to update it with my ideas when I'll have some time for that.

[TazzyB]

I think that Byzantine traits of Exarchs of Carthage (Tunis) and Ravenna (Ancona) would be a great addition to the gameplay. Nothing too big on the additions command/loyalty front, but certainly an interesting target for Byzantine players. Posisbly even expanding to the old provinces of the Empire if players were to get that far.

[Fair Prince]

I think that Byzantine traits of Exarchs of Carthage (Tunis) and Ravenna (Ancona) would be a great addition to the gameplay. Nothing too big on the additions command/loyalty front, but certainly an interesting target for Byzantine players. Posisbly even expanding to the old provinces of the Empire if players were to get that far.

As a matter of fact, there are already some plans in this regard - the Exarch title will only be assigned to the most important settlements (preferably to faction capitals), while Doux to the remaining ones. The full list of these Byzantine ducal titles will be available once the SSMAP submod is finished.
Thanks for the suggestion, nevertheless!

[Re_Minder]

I'll drop my 2 cents too and see what happens.

As it stands now, Royal Relations is a useless trait which only serves to fill the game with checks for it. It could either be replaced by Royal Blood (therefore allowing super breeding as Fatecheater described) or by simply giving separate Royal Blood traits to princesses which do not affect their children in any way (let's say a new Royalty trait which gives +1 charm to princesses and Royal Wife trait which gives all husbands some law). That would cut a couple of pages in traits no matter what. While loyalty drops to limit royal relations may be a solution to improve that trait, it might even prevent royal marriages later to avoid zero loyalty.. it's a fine solution, but certainly not a perfect one.

I hardly ever see Loves_Father or Hates_Father in effect or making any difference.. quite pointless traits I believe.

RulerOfSicily seems to be a trait that is meant only for Italian nations. Don't get me wrong, but is there a point in trait that gives (meagre) bonuses to owners of only one particular location? Since owning Iberia or other large clusters of lands gives you nothing... it should go, at least till many more locations start giving traits.

FactionKiller giving dread is quite annoying. So, if you kill an enemy who is constantly attacking you and refuses to stop that is abominable? Or, let's say, a nation destroying their natural enemies, like French vs England? I believe this trait shouldn't influence dread/chivalry in any way.

Cutting the middle level in fears/hates traits might be a good idea - not only I haven't ever seen the third level, but also separating hate into three parts looks way too detailed. Neutral > dislike > hate seems to be more reasonable to me as much as Neutral > Fears > Terrified.

Mm.. should be enough for now. Comments?

[Fair Prince]

Thanks for your useful ideas mate (+rep), see my comments below in blue!

I'll drop my 2 cents too and see what happens.

As it stands now, Royal Relations is a useless trait which only serves to fill the game with checks for it. It could either be replaced by Royal Blood (therefore allowing super breeding as Fatecheater described) or by simply giving separate Royal Blood traits to princesses which do not affect their children in any way (let's say a new Royalty trait which gives +1 charm to princesses and Royal Wife trait which gives all husbands some law). That would cut a couple of pages in traits no matter what. While loyalty drops to limit royal relations may be a solution to improve that trait, it might even prevent royal marriages later to avoid zero loyalty.. it's a fine solution, but certainly not a perfect one. Actually, RollingWave already suggested the introduction of Faction_Blood traits which would allocate the same bonuses to every character in a faction, not just royal family members - for the latter, the Royal_Blood trait would provide the necessary Authority and Loyalty boost. As for Royal_Relation, this trait enables players to track the ancestry of a characters, which I believe is a good feature and should be kept.

I hardly ever see Loves_Father or Hates_Father in effect or making any difference.. quite pointless traits I believe. They give Loyalty bonus or penalties, not the greatest traits in my opinion either, but I think they could remain untouched.

RulerOfSicily seems to be a trait that is meant only for Italian nations. Don't get me wrong, but is there a point in trait that gives (meagre) bonuses to owners of only one particular location? Since owning Iberia or other large clusters of lands gives you nothing... it should go, at least till many more locations start giving traits. Agreed, this trait is completely useless - Rozanov has already removed it in his own mod, and I already indicated I'd follow suit.

FactionKiller giving dread is quite annoying. So, if you kill an enemy who is constantly attacking you and refuses to stop that is abominable? Or, let's say, a nation destroying their natural enemies, like French vs England? I believe this trait shouldn't influence dread/chivalry in any way. Agreed again, actually, if you check out the Excel file in the first post you can see I already proposed its removal (to be merged with the VictorVirtue trait).

Cutting the middle level in fears/hates traits might be a good idea - not only I haven't ever seen the third level, but also separating hate into three parts looks way too detailed. Neutral > dislike > hate seems to be more reasonable to me as much as Neutral > Fears > Terrified. Great idea, at least it will mean less work for me!

Mm.. should be enough for now. Comments?

[Re_Minder]

About royal relations... well... I do see your point, but isn't family tree meant for that? The thing is, in any longer campaign I have up to 6 Royal relations and it ain't pretty... if earlier ones could be cleared, that'd be another matter, but now grand-grand-sons inherit this trait... if it was reality,in the same case we could say that more than half of Europe has Mongolian blood...

I'll look through the file (I checked it before), but either I fail or it's quite hard to navigate. A changelog instead of result sheet would be much more informative for me.


Edit: May I propose cutting the middle levels for Vendetta traits too then?

Other traits seems to be more or less fine, except maybe for triggers and probabilities in some cases.. for example, I believe BadTaxman should be given only when taxes are below normal, cause normal is... normal, it shouldn't make any changes by default. As it stands now, it is called normal but still gives traits, meaning that's "bad" in reality.

[bɑne]

This is sort of a random idea, but when a general from Egypt invades a region such as the area that is now Russia, it would be very likely that the general would not be used to the conditions that the Rus are already accustomed to. Therefore, perhap generals should get a trait that focuses on their home terrain.

When they are not in their home element, they may not recieve bonuses, or they can be hindered. Over time, the Egyption general may become used the frozen north, and may be able to change his home terrain trait. So basically...

"Desert General" - This unit has been born in the raised in arid Desert conditions.

+1 Command when fighting on Desert Terrain. 5% movement speed bonus on Desert Terrain.
-1 Command when fighting on Snow Terrain. 5% movement speed cut on Snow terrain.

To counter this, if your general resides in a city with an Explorer's Guild, you may have the chance to receive a "guide" who can help counter the natural disadvantages that a general may have.


Either way, I'm just throwing my own ideas about. Good luck!

I'm a bit late to the party on this one, just wanted to mention that I have read several reports that those terrain bonuses partially don't work as intended or are broken. If this is considered for implementation let me know and I will try to dig the info / source up again.

[Ichon]

From just my experience playing battles terrain bonuses don't seem to work well or if they do the difference is very hard to tell. The only terrain bonus I am sure works is elevation and forest fighting.

[Fair Prince]

About royal relations... well... I do see your point, but isn't family tree meant for that? The thing is, in any longer campaign I have up to 6 Royal relations and it ain't pretty... if earlier ones could be cleared, that'd be another matter, but now grand-grand-sons inherit this trait... if it was reality,in the same case we could say that more than half of Europe has Mongolian blood...

I'll look through the file (I checked it before), but either I fail or it's quite hard to navigate. A changelog instead of result sheet would be much more informative for me.


Edit: May I propose cutting the middle levels for Vendetta traits too then?

Other traits seems to be more or less fine, except maybe for triggers and probabilities in some cases.. for example, I believe BadTaxman should be given only when taxes are below normal, cause normal is... normal, it shouldn't make any changes by default. As it stands now, it is called normal but still gives traits, meaning that's "bad" in reality.

Sorry for the late reply, I'm quite busy with the map project at the moment.

You seem to be absolutely right with the royal relations - I didn't think about it before, but getting these traits for every generation could indeed be a bit annoying, though seemingly most players don't really have a problem with it. Nevertheless, I admit that this feature should be improved.

Removing middle levels for Vendetta traits is no problem, and I'll also have a look at the BadTaxman triggers.
Many thanks for your help and have some deserved rep for it!

[Sir Alucard]

After following your collection of submods for some time, I decided to make to make a few additions to SS as I wait for your overhaul of SS. Making various change and adding multiple submods and features from other mods, I wasn't happy with the current Ancillary pictures, finding them to small and bland, so I set about creating a few (hundred).

Whilst I am still currently adding new pictures all the time, I offer you the work I have already done if you you wish to use it in you submods. I do plan to remake the regional titles, I was just waiting for the SSMAP region list to be announced.

[Fair Prince]

After following your collection of submods for some time, I decided to make to make a few additions to SS as I wait for your overhaul of SS. Making various change and adding multiple submods and features from other mods, I wasn't happy with the current Ancillary pictures, finding them to small and bland, so I set about creating a few (hundred).

Whilst I am still currently adding new pictures all the time, I offer you the work I have already done if you you wish to use it in you submods. I do plan to remake the regional titles, I was just waiting for the SSMAP region list to be announced.

Many thanks mate, I got your file now, a big rep is yours immediately!
Once SSMAP is done I'll focus once again on this mod, but in the meantime you may work on the ancillary pics if you feel like it.

[Sir Alucard]

I am sorry I've replied this late, but the last few section are incredibly hardy to find any coat of arms/heraldry of any sort. (Especially the Muslim based countries). So after exhausting heraldry sites and searches on the internet, I contacted Tokus*Maximus to ask if he would send me the original/large files he used. Unfortunately he did not have these as he created the titles at their current size.

Eventually after trawling the internet for god know how many hours, I stumbled across a screen shot for a strategy game that used heraldry that would suit us quite well - Crusader Kings. As we intend to vastly decrease the size and modify them to a size much smaller than avatar/thumbnail dimensions, I figure that we should be able to use these to fill in the gaps from my heraldry searches.

Regards
Sir Alucard

[Fair Prince]

I am sorry I've replied this late, but the last few section are incredibly hardy to find any coat of arms/heraldry of any sort. (Especially the Muslim based countries). So after exhausting heraldry sites and searches on the internet, I contacted Tokus*Maximus to ask if he would send me the original/large files he used. Unfortunately he did not have these as he created the titles at their current size.

Eventually after trawling the internet for god know how many hours, I stumbled across a screen shot for a strategy game that used heraldry that would suit us quite well - Crusader Kings. As we intend to vastly decrease the size and modify them to a size much smaller than avatar/thumbnail dimensions, I figure that we should be able to use these to fill in the gaps from my heraldry searches.

Regards
Sir Alucard

Thanks, I got all of your files now, great job!