The Stainless Steel Traits & Ancillaries Improvement Project (SSTAIP) - Merged into SSMAP!

[SonofPeverel]

FP,
Is the Italian jurist :Accursius already in the game? If not I think he would be a great addition to bring a law bonus as an ancillary for a character....
Also his son Franciscus Accursius would be a great addition for an Italian or English general to bring a law bonuse. Edward I of England brought him to Englad to rework the English system of laws.

They can both be found on wikipedia but i read about them in the book "The Three Edwards" by Thomas Costain, he has written alot on the middle ages and i think it would be wise to review some of his work
Thanks

[Polydamas]

How is the plague spread in the game? Doesn't it have to check the other characters?

[Gorrrrrn]

I have 8 monks (1 for each of 6 catholic and 2 orthodox orders) to add to the goodies if you want them.
(with nice pix.)

[Zenith_Zenith]

FP, I was thinking: if a subject of a king did something outstanding for the country, wouldn't he receive the appreciation of the king and a higher status (which implies greater satisfaction for the subject)? If yes, then doesn't this mean that for a glorious victory a general should be 'rewarded' and therefore his loyalty increased? (a kind of, becoming the king's right hand, one of the people the king will rely on in the future)

[Fair Prince]

How is the plague spread in the game? Doesn't it have to check the other characters?

Honestly, I have no idea at the moment, but I'll check it soon.

I have 8 monks (1 for each of 6 catholic and 2 orthodox orders) to add to the goodies if you want them.
(with nice pix.)

Thanks Roz, I'll let you know when I need them!

FP, I was thinking: if a subject of a king did something outstanding for the country, wouldn't he receive the appreciation of the king and a higher status (which implies greater satisfaction for the subject)? If yes, then doesn't this mean that for a glorious victory a general should be 'rewarded' and therefore his loyalty increased? (a kind of, becoming the king's right hand, one of the people the king will rely on in the future)

The new military rank system will be responsible for this, as I already pointed out in post #316. To quote myself from there:

Every newly spawned/trained general would start as a Junior and could earn Senior status by serving his king loyally in the course of time. It's nothing serious, basically he just has to avoid bad defeats and any rebellions to earn a promotion. However, he can speed things up by excelling on the battlefield or demonstrating great loyalty to his lord, exactly like it's going in the real life as well: you either show promise or kiss some ass.

[Zenith_Zenith]

ok, glad to hear that... because I've really seen unfit, if you have a glorious victory to have your loyalty decreased.

[Fair Prince]

ok, glad to hear that... because I've really seen unfit, if you have a glorious victory to have your loyalty decreased.

Well, I only see the point in loyalty decrease if a general doesn't gets due reward and respect for his performances. Basically, he should lose some loyalty points by nature for being a renowned victor, but this should also be countered by giving him new ranks, titles, princess, etc.

I'll reply to the other posts tomorrow!

[Polydamas]

What if the mentorship thing was a passable trait? You know like how you can pass the title of governor between nobles.

[Zenith_Zenith]

FP, I was thinking of something... perhaps it is a good idea:
In history, when a hero (emperor) conquered a lot of territory, it seems that his authority was great (e.g. no one attempted or at least succeeded to bring a rebellion to replace him). But after he died, most of the times his territory was splitted, there were rebellions, etc. (e.g. the mongols splitted, the empire of Alexander the Great splitted, the turks splitted after conquering a lot of Anatolia, etc.)

Also, I believe there should be unrest increased in the settlements that are often besieged (or enemy army go in the territory often).

[Silver Legionary]

@Zenith: There is a trait in BGR similar to the siege unrest thing,
IIRC it lowers troop morale if you let yourself
be besieged often; perhaps a similar trait, but with unrest instead
of lower morale could be made?

[Gorrrrrn]

Perhaps Orders of Chivalry:
such as:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_o...r_%28France%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Garter

could give loyalty bonus to generals

[SonofPeverel]

Perhaps Orders of Chivalry:
such as:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_o...r_%28France%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Garter

could give loyalty bonus to generals

Supreme Order of Christ---Portugal

[Fair Prince]

FP,
Is the Italian jurist :Accursius already in the game? If not I think he would be a great addition to bring a law bonus as an ancillary for a character....
Also his son Franciscus Accursius would be a great addition for an Italian or English general to bring a law bonuse. Edward I of England brought him to Englad to rework the English system of laws.

They can both be found on wikipedia but i read about them in the book "The Three Edwards" by Thomas Costain, he has written alot on the middle ages and i think it would be wise to review some of his work
Thanks

Thanks, I haven't heard about them before, but I shall take a look at the links now.

What if the mentorship thing was a passable trait? You know like how you can pass the title of governor between nobles.

The two are completely different things: titles are made of ancillaries (not traits), and that is what makes them transferable. Granted, characters can sometimes also hand over traits too, but only through inheritance (from father to his son or daughter).

FP, I was thinking of something... perhaps it is a good idea:
In history, when a hero (emperor) conquered a lot of territory, it seems that his authority was great (e.g. no one attempted or at least succeeded to bring a rebellion to replace him). But after he died, most of the times his territory was splitted, there were rebellions, etc. (e.g. the mongols splitted, the empire of Alexander the Great splitted, the turks splitted after conquering a lot of Anatolia, etc.)

Also, I believe there should be unrest increased in the settlements that are often besieged (or enemy army go in the territory often).

You have a point, and I guess this feature has been already (more or less) realized in the game through the Authority attribute. Leaders with high authority won't have internal problems, but if their successor is not so convincing then the global unrest level will be higher.

Perhaps Orders of Chivalry:
such as:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_o...r_%28France%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Garter

could give loyalty bonus to generals

Thanks Roz, but I see these were founded in 14th century, and as such, they're not really suitable for either campaigns.

[Zenith_Zenith]

You have a point, and I guess this feature has been already (more or less) realized in the game through the Authority attribute. Leaders with high authority won't have internal problems, but if their successor is not so convincing then the global unrest level will be higher.

I'm not talking about that - I'm talking about REAL problems! Something that would make you FEAR to have your king killed! (and would be a hard blow to the enemy if you kill its king)
No matter how the next hair would be, there is still a great probability for other family members to claim the throne and fight one another for power! This should be especially significant if the ex-king had conquered a lot of territory in his life (the conquered territories might try to gain independence).

None of these is implemented yet: So far, if your king dies, you don't fear that your generals and settlements would rebel!

[Gorrrrrn]

Thanks Roz, but I see these were founded in 14th century, and as such, they're not really suitable for either campaigns.

depends when your campaigns start and finish

[Polydamas]

The two are completely different things: titles are made of ancillaries (not traits), and that is what makes them transferable. Granted, characters can sometimes also hand over traits too, but only through inheritance (from father to his son or daughter).

That's what I thought. I was thinking you could make some ancillary based on their skill and pass it to the apprentice.

The ancillary would be like Book of War - a collection of a great general's thoughts on military warfare +2 command. I doubt that you could change the name and conditions of a trait (so that the composer of the book does not receive the +2), so I don't think this is a very good option.

I think that the plague script would be the best to mess with, but I haven't the faintest clue how it works. If it checks each character for a trait then you could give great generals a trait called great general (), have the script check for that, and give +1 command to all in the settlement, although if you could limit it to only generals under 24 it would be best. Also to avoid spamming maybe the trait mentored by a great general could be given. Hmm I need to rethink this lol. First though someone would need to figure out whether or not any of this is even possible.

Anyway, thanks for considering this proposal and not ignoring it as I suspect most modders would.

[SonofPeverel]

Thanks, I haven't heard about them before, but I shall take a look at the links now.

I hadnt eiter until i read that book and researched them. Apparently they were expercts in law and i thought that they may be worth looking into. Let me know if you find anything interesting.

[Gorrrrrn]

Given that the game engine seems to ignore them, would it make sense to remove the barren /fertile traits for wives?
--
and whilst I'm here:

PassiveRuler - has no effects associated with it - can't see it serves any purpose - ditch?

[Fair Prince]

That's what I thought. I was thinking you could make some ancillary based on their skill and pass it to the apprentice.

The ancillary would be like Book of War - a collection of a great general's thoughts on military warfare +2 command. I doubt that you could change the name and conditions of a trait (so that the composer of the book does not receive the +2), so I don't think this is a very good option.

I think that the plague script would be the best to mess with, but I haven't the faintest clue how it works. If it checks each character for a trait then you could give great generals a trait called great general (), have the script check for that, and give +1 command to all in the settlement, although if you could limit it to only generals under 24 it would be best. Also to avoid spamming maybe the trait mentored by a great general could be given. Hmm I need to rethink this lol. First though someone would need to figure out whether or not any of this is even possible.

Anyway, thanks for considering this proposal and not ignoring it as I suspect most modders would.

I don't really fancy that Book of War idea, given that there's already an education system in the game that makes it possible for characters to go and learn about warfare at a university. Also, having a good book shouldn't necessarily mean the character will use it.

It's only natural I consider every idea that is posted in this thread, as that's the purpose of this thread. That's why this work is called Stainless Steel T.A.I.P. and not Fair Prince's T.A.I.P. - I'm just a guy who collects the ideas and tries to realize them, and not one who takes them then sells them under his own name.

Given that the game engine seems to ignore them, would it make sense to remove the barren /fertile traits for wives?
--
and whilst I'm here:

PassiveRuler - has no effects associated with it - can't see it serves any purpose - ditch?

You have convinced me about removing those wife traits, so now I also don't see the point in keeping them.
As for the PassiveRuler trait, I was never a great fan of it, so I think you can dump it as well.

[Polydamas]

I don't really fancy that Book of War idea, given that there's already an education system in the game that makes it possible for characters to go and learn about warfare at a university. Also, having a good book shouldn't necessarily mean the character will use it.

Yeah, I didn't like it either. It was the only workable thing I could think of though unless you could change the name of the ancillary (or trait) when you pass it, though I very much doubt that it is possible.