The Stainless Steel Traits & Ancillaries Improvement Project (SSTAIP) - Merged into SSMAP!

[Zenith_Zenith]

a few more:

generals:
- slanderer/defamer - he uses mockery and slanders (false gossips to defame) against the appreciated individuals, so that himself would appear superior to all: -piety, -chivalry, +unrest
- respects the better ones - he acknowledges when somebody is better than him at something, and does not get upset. Instead, he believes that every man should do the thing he is best at and contribute for the common good. And he knows people appreciate him for having this attitude. +piety, +chivalry, +popularity, -unrest.
- racist - he disrespects people of other race. -popularity, -chivalry
- disrespects the commoners he considers that people of lower social status, as farmers and workers, do not worth his respect. Instead, he respects only the wealthy and the people of high rank (regarded as important people) - -popularity, -chivalry, +unrest
- respects the commoners he believes that every man should be treated with respect and appreciated, no matter the social class, as long as they work or do something for the country. +popularity, +chivalry, -unrest
- dreams of a new world order (perhaps it sounds bad, but perhaps there exists a better term) - he dreams of the age where everybody will believe the same faith (his faith), and is doing all he can so that age would approach faster. +3 command, +public order, +dread. (this is and was real: christians believe that all will have the same faith at the end, muslims believe the same about their own faith, jews the same... though we don't have jews in the game).
- practices sorcery he secretly uses sorcery and rituals to unnaturally fulfill his objectives. -6 piety or something

ancillary:
- witch - he knows a secret witch to whom he appeals in times of need.

by the way, about all generals I forgot the "squalor" attribute, and most often "population growth". but I suppose you would take care of what misses.

also for witches (by the way, I haven't seen witches lately in SS)
- practices sorcery she uses sorcery at the request of people, to unnaturally fulfill their wishes, for payment.
- uses magic she uses magic to fascinate people, and receives money from them.
- fortune teller she can find out what will happen to individuals in the future, or at least this is what she claims to. People pay her to find out what their future holds.
- clairvoyant/medium - she can establish communication with the dead and gets payed by individuals who want to talk with their beloved relatives that have died.
- unholy guidance - she claims to be guided by the spirit of an important personality that lived many centuries before. (other times/in other circumstances she says he is an angel. - I'm not sure this should be added)
- diabolical - she hates any organized religion that confines fleshly freedom, and is actively fighting against any of it!
- used to cursing - she made a habit of cursing people that she dislikes. It is said that some of them have even been struck with plague!
- lives in the woods - she is harder to find, more sinister, and can learn more of her sorcery there, because she's alone.
- blasphemer should be a witch trait as well.
- can find justifications - she can find justifications if questioned by people, saying that magic is not unnatural at all, but she is actually using the natural forces in nature, just like scholars and inventors do. Moreover, she claims to use only white magic, to help people.
- wise - able to gain more 'religious' traits.
- she gets possessed - from time to time, her voice changes into a horrible voice, which people do not describe as a human voice at all. They claim she becomes very angry and very scary when it happens.
- studied the occult - unlike most witches, this one has studied some unholy scriptures that taught her more about practicing sorcery.
- has committed great sins - people say that she has committed unimaginable sins. It is hard for them even to describe them! (Some people believe they were for a ritual, others believe they were done just by simple pleasure. - I don't know if this fits to be added)
- evil woman - people describe her as a very evil woman.
- follows the left hand path (I hope it's not exaggerated to put such term) - as a follower of the left hand path, she despises the right hand path religions as Christianity, blaiming its followers of hipocrisy, of abstinence - which she considers a crime against human's own nature, and of the blindly respecting the social conventions and avoiding the things considered taboo. Her reasoning is quite simple: man is part of the nature, the nature is evil, so evil is good! She believes that all that a man can do is natural, and therefore, good. She acts and teaches people accordingly.
- she serves a pagan god - she is a worshiper of an unknown pagan god that she claims to have been worshiped since times of old, and she claims that he gives her the magical powers. (I don't believe it can work with "finds justifications", so a witch should either get this or the other trait).

ancillaries, if possible:
- occult book (if ancillaries are possible for witches, it should replace "studied the occult").
- adjutant - someone who helps her prepare her potions and perform the rituals.
- zodiac - used for guessing the future of people, and even their personality traits, in stars.

for heretics again:
- he uses other scriptures - he uses other secret scriptures, whom he considers holy and superior to the holy scriptures already in use.
- author of a heretical scripture - he wrote a scripture from himself, which he considers holy and asks people to believe it as divinely inspired.
- he claims to be reincarnated - he claims that he is actually an important prophet from a long time before, that got reincarnated. He even calls himself with that name!
- he claims to be a savior - he claims to be a prophet sent to save humanity from utter destruction... but they need to listen to him!
- he claims to be divine - he claims to be of a divine nature, superior to any king or spiritual leader.
- false authorship - seeing that people pay more attention to the works of the renowned prophets of the past, he fabricated a scripture using the name of a renowned prophet of the past, as its author, writing his beliefs in it, so people would believe both his views and that his beliefs are based on good scripture.
- he doesn't believe in Hell - he managed to interpret scriptures in such a way to prove that Hell does not actually exist. This makes it very attractive for people who are worried about their afterlife.
- manipulator - he knows how to speak, how to gesticulate and how his attitude must be, to convince people when his arguments are weak.

ancillaries:
- devout follower - this guy is blindly believing and following his Teacher, and is doing anything he can to protect him (improves personal security)
- heretical scripture(s) (if using ancillaries is possible, then should replace "he uses other scriptures" trait.
- modified holy scriptures - (I suppose it's better as an ancillary, rather than a trait): he has brought modifications to the Holy Scriptures to accord with his views, and he claims that this is how they were actually in the beginning!

priests:
I don't know how good this can be, but just an idea:
- Wise Teacher - not only he understands the scriptures well, but he also knows how to teach them, so that people would understand easily.

ancillary:
- Holy Scriptures

for diplomats: is charismatic already included? learning foreign languages is also included as trait, right?
- experienced diplomat he has served a long time as a diplomat, and therefore has learned much of how to talk to people.

perhaps it's possible learnt latin to work if he talks to a catholic faction. learnt arabic would work for muslims, learnt greek for greeks, learnt slavic for russians and I believe Lithuania, learnt the cuman language (I found it existed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuman_people)

[Zenith_Zenith]

I also believe "Diplomat" should be changed to "Ambassador", if you are also willing to make changes like that.

[Jambat]

What about some famous historical swords as ancillaries? They could effect either combat or morale statistics as many of them were used both as weapons of war and as well as swords of office.

Bruncvik’s Sword – Czech sword, according the legend the sword is hidden in Charles Bridge in Prague.
Czech Lion on Coat of Arms is sometimes called Bruncvik lion but in reality is a different. Czechs used a flaming eagle in the beginning. They obtained their heraldic lion from Barbarossa (Holy Roman Emperor) as reward for their kamikaze-berserk conquest of Italian city Milano.


Colada – the secondary sword of El Cid. Colada and Tizona were two swords of El Cid - a Spanish national hero. El Cid Campeador (Rodrigo Diaz de Vivar) was chief general and a national hero of fight against the Moors in Spain during reconquista.

Crocea Mors- sword of Julius Caeser, the name is Latin for 'Yellow Death'. The British prince Nennius acquired it when, during single combat with Caesar, it got stuck in his shield. It killed everyone Nennius struck with it. Nennius died fifteen days after the battle of a head wound inflicted by Caesar, and the sword was buried with him.

Curtana – the sword of Holger Danske, vassal of Charlemagne. Curtana or "Sword of Mercy", is a symbolically broken sword that is part of the traditional English regalia, now included in the Crown Jewels of the United Kingdom. It is one of five swords used at the coronation of the kings and queens of England. The Curtana has a blade cut off short and square, indicating thereby the quality of the mercy of the sovereign; according to the mythological history of the sword, its tip was broken off by an angel to prevent a wrongful killing.

Grus - the historical sword of Bolesław III Wrymouth, medieval prince of Poland.

Joyeuse – the sword of Charlemagne (Charles the Great), the famed Medieval king of the Franks and first emperor of the Holy Roman Empire.Joyeuse was the name of Charlemagne's personal sword. The name translates as "joyful".Some legends claim that it was forged to contain the Lance of Longinus within its pommel; others state it was supposedly smithed from the same materials as Roland's Durendal and Ogier's Curtana.

Legbiter – Viking King Magnus Barelegs’s sword. When King Magnus was killed in an ambush by the Men of Ulster his sword was retrieved and sent home.

Lobera – the sword of the king Saint Ferdinand III of Castile. Lobera is a Spanish word, literally meaning 'Wolfslayer'. Ferdinand III used this weapon instead of a more traditional rod of office and always was depicted with sword in hand.

The Sword of Attila - discovered by Attila the Hun through mysterious means. Attila used it as both a military weapon and a symbol of divine favor, which may have contributed to his reputation as "the Scourge of God," a divinely-appointed punisher.

Szczerbiec – The sword of Polish kings. is the coronation sword that was used in crowning ceremonies of most Kings of Poland from 1320 to 1764. It is currently on display in the treasure vault of the Royal Wawel Castle in Krakow as the only preserved piece of Polish Crown Jewels.

Tizona – one of the two swords of El Cid. Colada and Tizona were two swords of El Cid - a Spanish national hero. El Cid Campeador (Rodrigo Diaz de Vivar) was chief general and a national hero of fight against the Moors in Spain during reconquista.

Zulfiqar (Thul fiqar) – The two-tipped sword of the Islamic leader Ali. Received at the Battle of Uhud, Zulfigar became a symbol of honor and martyrdom to the muslim peoples.

[Fair Prince]

@Zenith_Zenith
See my feedback on your massive post below!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

a few more:

generals:
- slanderer/defamer - he uses mockery and slanders (false gossips to defame) against the appreciated individuals, so that himself would appear superior to all: -piety, -chivalry, +unrest I don't think it's necessary as the Feck trait more or less covers this.
- respects the better ones - he acknowledges when somebody is better than him at something, and does not get upset. Instead, he believes that every man should do the thing he is best at and contribute for the common good. And he knows people appreciate him for having this attitude. +piety, +chivalry, +popularity, -unrest. The Prim and Upright traits pretty much cover this in my opinion.
- racist - he disrespects people of other race. -popularity, -chivalry Same as above.
- disrespects the commoners he considers that people of lower social status, as farmers and workers, do not worth his respect. Instead, he respects only the wealthy and the people of high rank (regarded as important people) - -popularity, -chivalry, +unrest Same as above.
- respects the commoners he believes that every man should be treated with respect and appreciated, no matter the social class, as long as they work or do something for the country. +popularity, +chivalry, -unrest Same as above.
- dreams of a new world order (perhaps it sounds bad, but perhaps there exists a better term) - he dreams of the age where everybody will believe the same faith (his faith), and is doing all he can so that age would approach faster. +3 command, +public order, +dread. (this is and was real: christians believe that all will have the same faith at the end, muslims believe the same about their own faith, jews the same... though we don't have jews in the game). It's similar to the planned Ambition trait (see first post).
- practices sorcery he secretly uses sorcery and rituals to unnaturally fulfill his objectives. -6 piety or something Maybe.

ancillary:
- witch - he knows a secret witch to whom he appeals in times of need. Possible.

by the way, about all generals I forgot the "squalor" attribute, and most often "population growth". but I suppose you would take care of what misses.

also for witches (by the way, I haven't seen witches lately in SS)
- practices sorcery she uses sorcery at the request of people, to unnaturally fulfill their wishes, for payment. I guess witches do this by default, it is what makes them witches.
- uses magic she uses magic to fascinate people, and receives money from them. Same as above.
- fortune teller she can find out what will happen to individuals in the future, or at least this is what she claims to. People pay her to find out what their future holds. Same as above.
- clairvoyant/medium - she can establish communication with the dead and gets payed by individuals who want to talk with their beloved relatives that have died. Same as above.
- unholy guidance - she claims to be guided by the spirit of an important personality that lived many centuries before. (other times/in other circumstances she says he is an angel. - I'm not sure this should be added) I don't really see the point in this.
- diabolical - she hates any organized religion that confines fleshly freedom, and is actively fighting against any of it! That's another default witch attribute.
- used to cursing - she made a habit of cursing people that she dislikes. It is said that some of them have even been struck with plague! Possible, with even more levels.
- lives in the woods - she is harder to find, more sinister, and can learn more of her sorcery there, because she's alone. Default witch attribute.
- blasphemer should be a witch trait as well. Again, witches are usually blasphemous by default.
- can find justifications - she can find justifications if questioned by people, saying that magic is not unnatural at all, but she is actually using the natural forces in nature, just like scholars and inventors do. Moreover, she claims to use only white magic, to help people. I don't see the point in this.
- wise - able to gain more 'religious' traits. Same as above.
- she gets possessed - from time to time, her voice changes into a horrible voice, which people do not describe as a human voice at all. They claim she becomes very angry and very scary when it happens. It shouldn't be a separate trait in my opinion.
- studied the occult - unlike most witches, this one has studied some unholy scriptures that taught her more about practicing sorcery. Maybe.
- has committed great sins - people say that she has committed unimaginable sins. It is hard for them even to describe them! (Some people believe they were for a ritual, others believe they were done just by simple pleasure. - I don't know if this fits to be added) I'm not sure about it, either.
- evil woman - people describe her as a very evil woman. Possible, with more levels too.
- follows the left hand path (I hope it's not exaggerated to put such term) - as a follower of the left hand path, she despises the right hand path religions as Christianity, blaiming its followers of hipocrisy, of abstinence - which she considers a crime against human's own nature, and of the blindly respecting the social conventions and avoiding the things considered taboo. Her reasoning is quite simple: man is part of the nature, the nature is evil, so evil is good! She believes that all that a man can do is natural, and therefore, good. She acts and teaches people accordingly. I don't really see the point in this.
- she serves a pagan god - she is a worshiper of an unknown pagan god that she claims to have been worshiped since times of old, and she claims that he gives her the magical powers. (I don't believe it can work with "finds justifications", so a witch should either get this or the other trait). Default witch attribute.

ancillaries, if possible:
- occult book (if ancillaries are possible for witches, it should replace "studied the occult"). Possible.
- adjutant - someone who helps her prepare her potions and perform the rituals. Good idea, but Aide or Servant would sound better in my opinion.
- zodiac - used for guessing the future of people, and even their personality traits, in stars. I don't see the point in this.

for heretics again:
- he uses other scriptures - he uses other secret scriptures, whom he considers holy and superior to the holy scriptures already in use. A default attribute once again, this is what makes him a heretic.
- author of a heretical scripture - he wrote a scripture from himself, which he considers holy and asks people to believe it as divinely inspired. Same as above.
- he claims to be reincarnated - he claims that he is actually an important prophet from a long time before, that got reincarnated. He even calls himself with that name! Could be a good idea.
- he claims to be a savior - he claims to be a prophet sent to save humanity from utter destruction... but they need to listen to him! Too similar to the previous one.
- he claims to be divine - he claims to be of a divine nature, superior to any king or spiritual leader. See above.
- false authorship - seeing that people pay more attention to the works of the renowned prophets of the past, he fabricated a scripture using the name of a renowned prophet of the past, as its author, writing his beliefs in it, so people would believe both his views and that his beliefs are based on good scripture. Possible.
- he doesn't believe in Hell - he managed to interpret scriptures in such a way to prove that Hell does not actually exist. This makes it very attractive for people who are worried about their afterlife. Not significant enough to be a separate trait.
- manipulator - he knows how to speak, how to gesticulate and how his attitude must be, to convince people when his arguments are weak. Good idea!

ancillaries:
- devout follower - this guy is blindly believing and following his Teacher, and is doing anything he can to protect him (improves personal security) Excellent idea!
- heretical scripture(s) (if using ancillaries is possible, then should replace "he uses other scriptures" trait. As I wrote above, heretics do this by default.
- modified holy scriptures - (I suppose it's better as an ancillary, rather than a trait): he has brought modifications to the Holy Scriptures to accord with his views, and he claims that this is how they were actually in the beginning! Same as above.

priests:
I don't know how good this can be, but just an idea:
- Wise Teacher - not only he understands the scriptures well, but he also knows how to teach them, so that people would understand easily. I'm not really sure what bonus could it give to a priest.

ancillary:
- Holy Scriptures Priests usually carry this by default.

for diplomats: is charismatic already included? learning foreign languages is also included as trait, right? Possible.
- experienced diplomat he has served a long time as a diplomat, and therefore has learned much of how to talk to people. Good idea!

perhaps it's possible learnt latin to work if he talks to a catholic faction. learnt arabic would work for muslims, learnt greek for greeks, learnt slavic for russians and I believe Lithuania, learnt the cuman language (I found it existed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuman_people) The Multilingual trait is already in the game, and I think it covers this function very well.

[Polycarpe]

FP, I've got a suggestion towards the education. I personally think that it needs more work on it. And adding a "military school" for the castle will be more realist. Here how it should look:

Military School:
-Gives basic military education. Higher learning skill has a chance to learn Standard military education.
-At the End of his study, the character gains "promising commander".

Military Academy:
-Gives Standard military education. Higher learning skill has a chance to learn Advanced military education.
-At the End of his study, the character gains "promising commander".

The character might also learn one of these skill(s) randomly, there's several traits:
-Good at defending/Good at attacking. +1 command when defending/Attacking.
-Poor at defending/Poor at attacking. -1 Command when defending/attacking.
-Good with cavalry/Poor with Cavalry. +1/-1 Command when commanding cavalry.
-Good with Archers/Poor with archers. +1/-1 Command when commanding archers.
-Good with Infantry/Poor with infantry. +1/-1 Command when commanding infantry.
-Good at defending wall/Good at attacking wall. +1 Command when defending/Attacking walls.
-Poor at defending walls/Poor at sieging walls. -1 Command when defending/attacking walls.

I would say that, during his learning, he could learn randomly 1-3 good/bad traits.
If he's a good learner, then his chance of getting flaws will be lower.

Great military Academy:
-Gives Advanced military education. Higher learning skill has a chance to learn Master Strategist.
-At the End of his study, the character gains "promising commander".

As the military academy before except the character might increase his bonus on a skill(s)(good and bad traits) or decrease or remove flaws. The bonus will be +2.

That's pretty much it. You could add any of your new traits related to military learning too
What do you think FP?

[Jambat]

I can get you pictures for any of those swords, or others, if you would like FP if interested. I think it would be neat since the this is the era the sword really took on the myth of nobility. They could give just about anything; Attack, morale, dread, authority.

[Zenith_Zenith]

practices sorcery she uses sorcery at the request of people, to unnaturally fulfill their wishes, for payment. I guess witches do this by default, it is what makes them witches.

- perhaps then start with this trait already. but I don't think all witches were necessarily LIKE THAT - see the future, do sorcery, worship a pagan god, being blasphemous - alltoghether!. come on, what witch traits can you put, except attributes of witches and what witches do??

perhaps not all witches performed magic and sorcery for others.

- follows the left hand path (I hope it's not exaggerated to put such term) - as a follower of the left hand path, she despises the right hand path religions as Christianity, blaiming its followers of hipocrisy, of abstinence - which she considers a crime against human's own nature, and of the blindly respecting the social conventions and avoiding the things considered taboo. Her reasoning is quite simple: man is part of the nature, the nature is evil, so evil is good! She believes that all that a man can do is natural, and therefore, good. She acts and teaches people accordingly. I don't really see the point in this.

it's a kind of diabolical + evil intended. "left hand path" is actually satanic path (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-Ha...ight-Hand_Path).
This supposed to be more outrageous to the people and make her a more fierce witch.

- zodiac - used for guessing the future of people, and even their personality traits, in stars. I don't see the point in this.

- a helper for guessing in the stars.

he uses other scriptures - he uses other secret scriptures, whom he considers holy and superior to the holy scriptures already in use. A default attribute once again, this is what makes him a heretic.

- not all heretics used other scriptures, others just modified the holy scriptures or interpreted differently the holy scriptures.

author of a heretical scripture - he wrote a scripture from himself, which he considers holy and asks people to believe it as divinely inspired. Same as above.

- few heretics were authors of a heretical scripture claiming to be divinely inspired!

he claims to be a savior - he claims to be a prophet sent to save humanity from utter destruction... but they need to listen to him! Too similar to the previous one.

- inspired from false messiahs & gurus.

he doesn't believe in Hell - he managed to interpret scriptures in such a way to prove that Hell does not actually exist. This makes it very attractive for people who are worried about their afterlife. Not significant enough to be a separate trait.

- only some heretics did not believe in hell... not significant? but perhaps convincing for others to believe him, I'd say...

heretical scripture(s) (if using ancillaries is possible, then should replace "he uses other scriptures" trait. As I wrote above, heretics do this by default.

- as I said, not all used other scriptures.

modified holy scriptures - (I suppose it's better as an ancillary, rather than a trait): he has brought modifications to the Holy Scriptures to accord with his views, and he claims that this is how they were actually in the beginning! Same as above.

- as I said, not all modified the holy scriptures. others just interpreted differently the text and were accused of heresy.

dreams of a new world order (perhaps it sounds bad, but perhaps there exists a better term) - he dreams of the age where everybody will believe the same faith (his faith), and is doing all he can so that age would approach faster. +3 command, +public order, +dread. (this is and was real: christians believe that all will have the same faith at the end, muslims believe the same about their own faith, jews the same... though we don't have jews in the game). It's similar to the planned Ambition trait (see first post).

- but planned ambition has nothing to do with religious promises! Come on, this is how Jihads started and Crusades (at least the teutonic crusades)

- diabolical - she hates any organized religion that confines fleshly freedom, and is actively fighting against any of it! That's another default witch attribute.

- not all witches were or are diabolical and not all are blasphemous! haven't you heard of "white magic" or right hand path witchcraft? wicca is an example. Anyway, not all were diabolical, evil-intended, non-emotional persons - actually, perhaps most were not like that at all.

can find justifications - she can find justifications if questioned by people, saying that magic is not unnatural at all, but she is actually using the natural forces in nature, just like scholars and inventors do. Moreover, she claims to use only white magic, to help people. I don't see the point in this.

- harder to be convicted.

she serves a pagan god - she is a worshiper of an unknown pagan god that she claims to have been worshiped since times of old, and she claims that he gives her the magical powers. (I don't believe it can work with "finds justifications", so a witch should either get this or the other trait). Default witch attribute.

-devil worshiper sounds better? or all witches were both devil worshiper and worshiper of an obscure ancient god??

unholy guidance - she claims to be guided by the spirit of an important personality that lived many centuries before. (other times/in other circumstances she says he is an angel. - I'm not sure this should be added) I don't really see the point in this.

I've heard that some witches or persons involved in practicing sorcery claim to have some kind of spirit that tells them things, what to do, where to go, etc. And I thought that this is good for a witch trait. or should it be ancillary? (though I don't know how one would draw the spirit).

do prim and upright really cover "respects the commoners" and "disrespects the commoners"? I guess prim and upright are shown in his attitude towards others like himself mostly, while the "disrespects the commoners" is that thing that makes a man that became high in the social status to disrespect the poor, and being ashamed to talk to one, or to be seen talking to one, etc. It has nothing to do with common "righteousness", as far as I see. or perhaps I don't understand "prim" and "upright" correctly.

lives in the woods - she is harder to find, more sinister, and can learn more of her sorcery there, because she's alone. Default witch attribute.

well, I think that people that were curios about sorcery were not necessarily going to live in the woods.

diabolical - she hates any organized religion that confines fleshly freedom, and is actively fighting against any of it! That's another default witch attribute.

practicing sorcery has nothing to do with "diabolical"/"evil" stuff. there are and were people whom did not approach sorcery because they were evil or desired to be evil or something. perhaps a trait like "white magician" or something could be added to show the other (actually, more frequent) type of witch. Also, if somebody uses black magic (curses, rituals that are supposed to hurt someone he sees fit) does not necessarily make him a person devoted to evil. perhaps he just uses black magic on people that wronged him or for money (without the intention to overthrow the Catholic Church!)

wise - able to gain more 'religious' traits. Same as above.

I meant something like... wisdom helps to learn new practices, to discover them, etc. to progress more rapidly.

[Fair Prince]

I can get you pictures for any of those swords, or others, if you would like FP if interested. I think it would be neat since the this is the era the sword really took on the myth of nobility. They could give just about anything; Attack, morale, dread, authority.

That's an excellent list, but as I already said a couple of times before, I prefer not to include these kind of artifacts, nor mythical items in my work - they are more suitable for the METAL mod (though I'm not sure if that project is still alive).
Thanks for the input, nonetheless! (+rep)

[Jambat]

That's an excellent list, but as I already said a couple of times before, I prefer not to include these kind of artifacts, nor mythical items in my work - they are more suitable for the METAL mod (though I'm not sure if that project is still alive).
Thanks for the input, nonetheless! (+rep)

Ah sorry, didn't notice you had said that like I said I skipped a chunk of the thread. No worries, I'll keep an eye out for other stuff, looking forward to this.

[Zenith_Zenith]

and others for priests:

self denial (or, denies himself - I don't know which sounds better) - he understands that denying his needs and his desires lead to greater spiritual purification, and that, by denying himself, he can better serve God. +piety, +purity

used to fasting - he fasts regularly

lacks logic - it is harder to convince people about the Truth, when his own reasoning lacks in logic!

(perhaps this to heretics as well: )
misinterprets scripture - though he is convinced to know the Holy Scriptures, he doesn't understand them properly, and teaches people so.

for witches again, just came into my mind:
- unskilled witch

for diplomants/ambassador:
- unskilled diplomat/ambassador
- arrogant

perhaps it's good for spy and assassin (unskilled ...)

[Fair Prince]

FP, I've got a suggestion towards the education. I personally think that it needs more work on it. And adding a "military school" for the castle will be more realist. Here how it should look:

Military School:
-Gives basic military education. Higher learning skill has a chance to learn Standard military education.
-At the End of his study, the character gains "promising commander".

Military Academy:
-Gives Standard military education. Higher learning skill has a chance to learn Advanced military education.
-At the End of his study, the character gains "promising commander".

The character might also learn one of these skill(s) randomly, there's several traits:
-Good at defending/Good at attacking. +1 command when defending/Attacking.
-Poor at defending/Poor at attacking. -1 Command when defending/attacking.
-Good with cavalry/Poor with Cavalry. +1/-1 Command when commanding cavalry.
-Good with Archers/Poor with archers. +1/-1 Command when commanding archers.
-Good with Infantry/Poor with infantry. +1/-1 Command when commanding infantry.
-Good at defending wall/Good at attacking wall. +1 Command when defending/Attacking walls.
-Poor at defending walls/Poor at sieging walls. -1 Command when defending/attacking walls.

I would say that, during his learning, he could learn randomly 1-3 good/bad traits.
If he's a good learner, then his chance of getting flaws will be lower.

Great military Academy:
-Gives Advanced military education. Higher learning skill has a chance to learn Master Strategist.
-At the End of his study, the character gains "promising commander".

As the military academy before except the character might increase his bonus on a skill(s)(good and bad traits) or decrease or remove flaws. The bonus will be +2.

That's pretty much it. You could add any of your new traits related to military learning too
What do you think FP?

Yes, it might make sense to create this new building, and perhaps it could be added to the city building tree as well, as an alternative to the university. The Military_Edu trait is currently attached to the castle type settlements, so the player has no chance to raise well-educated generals in cities.

As for the education, I suggest sticking with the current education levels (Kindergarten -> Freshman -> ... -> Graduate), albeit with some tweaks: when a character comes of age (might be reduced from 14 to 12), he would start with a 'clean sheet', and player could select from the following career path options:
1. Send him to a military school, to be a skilled general.
2. Send him to a city school, to be a skilled governor.
3. Send him to an abbey (if he's less talented or something), to be an abbot or a priest -> I'm still thinking about what bonus could it give, but it was certainly an option in the Middle Ages (see Louis VII of France).
4. Or send him to the wilderness to be the next Conan.

After the school would come the Academy then the Great Academy (perhaps with a different name), as you mentioned. I guess it would also be nice if the characters could graduate in more than one basic school, but only until a certain age. However, once they would start a mid-level Academy, they won't be able to change their career path anymore.
Random traits could be of course gained during the studies (very good idea!), moreover, the various Inclination traits could also stay in the game to make the emerging characters more diverse and interesting.
Have a big rep for your suggestions!

[Polycarpe]

Then we could do the characters starts it's education at the age of Seven (not too early and not too old for learning education). They will graduate at the age of Sixteen. So how the character will learn:

1)They are coming to age at Seven years old. I don't know if it's possible but to increase his movement and make the child unable to command any units except his own bodyguards.
2)When settled in a settlement for learning his education. They must not move for a period of time or he will miss education.
3)After 3 years, they gain his basic level of education. Now he could move to another settlement with a different school (opposite education or higher level of school) or simply stay at his current location. If there's a higher level of education in the current settlement, then he will start his second level of education. If there's no higher level of school, then he will not learn anymore education but he might learn some traits related toward administrative or military paths.
4)Now, he's Ten years old, he will start his second level of education.
5)After 3 Years, he can do the same choices of No.3.
6)He's now Thirteen years old, he will start his next education.
7)At Sixteen years old, he finally finish his education.

We could also let the character to further gain education if he stays longer in school.

[Polycarpe]

We could also tied up the recruitable generals to schools. Maybe make the general able to gain education as the family members would be interesting.

[Zenith_Zenith]

- Wise Teacher - not only he understands the scriptures well, but he also knows how to teach them, so that people would understand easily.
you said:
I'm not really sure what bonus could it give to a priest.

well, I was thinking that it is not a real need to increase his faith. Instead, as "manipulator" of the heretic does not increase his faith, but his convincingness, the same I thought about Wise/Good teacher - there is the ability of some people to explain to other people so that they would understand. Others, on the contrary, cannot make themselves understood, but they say something while the listener understands other thing, or they simply have a complex reasoning that put their listeners into a deep confusion about the subject.

so Good/Wise Teacher vs. Unfit teacher (or, "cannot explain properly") do help in converting people and growing their faith - my logic. so +piety, if not something else. (as "manipulator" attribute of the heretic should add to piety, as I believe)

[Fair Prince]

Then we could do the characters starts it's education at the age of Seven (not too early and not too old for learning education). They will graduate at the age of Sixteen. So how the character will learn:

1)They are coming to age at Seven years old. I don't know if it's possible but to increase his movement and make the child unable to command any units except his own bodyguards.
2)When settled in a settlement for learning his education. They must not move for a period of time or he will miss education.
3)After 3 years, they gain his basic level of education. Now he could move to another settlement with a different school (opposite education or higher level of school) or simply stay at his current location. If there's a higher level of education in the current settlement, then he will start his second level of education. If there's no higher level of school, then he will not learn anymore education but he might learn some traits related toward administrative or military paths.
4)Now, he's Ten years old, he will start his second level of education.
5)After 3 Years, he can do the same choices of No.3.
6)He's now Thirteen years old, he will start his next education.
7)At Sixteen years old, he finally finish his education.

We could also let the character to further gain education if he stays longer in school.

No, I'm firmly against moving the coming of age event to such an young age, as it could lead to ridiculous situations which tend to happen in Meneth's LLP mod, like a 5 year old kid getting marriage proposals.
The coming of age minimum shouldn't be lower than 12 in my opinion, and when they reach that, they could start their career on the paths I mentioned before. Their education should last for at least 8 years (2 at school + 3 at academy + 4 at great academy), so they won't finish it before the age of 20 - but when they finally do, it will certainly worth the waiting. Moreover, those ugly 'lock him down until he grows up' tricks could also be avoided by that.

We could also tied up the recruitable generals to schools. Maybe make the general able to gain education as the family members would be interesting.

Good idea, though I think it would even better if we would tie their quality instead of their availability to the schools. Then we would get better generals from settlements with better educational opportunities, which sounds quite reasonable in my opinion.

[Zenith_Zenith]

Fair Prince,

did you change your mind about the witches & heretics traits I tried to show that are ok? (post #267)

also what do you say about the new ideas in #270?
and what do you think about what I said in #274? (the post just above your last one)

[Fair Prince]

Fair Prince,

did you change your mind about the witches & heretics traits I tried to show that are ok? (post #267)

also what do you say about the new ideas in #270?
and what do you think about what I said in #274? (the post just above your last one)

Oh sorry, there was just too many ideas I had to reply to - I'll study your suggestions and will try to give some feedback tomorrow.

[luciferleigh]

have not read through the entire thread, but ive been looking for a way to "fix" the disgraced foreign princess problem, looked for the announcements files and havent found them, im thinking theyre still in the core game, i was hoping to give the generals that have "acquired" said princesses some form of princess adultress ancillary or trait, giving children of their legal wives a higher chance of being bastards and blood traits from their fathers "mistress"

with any luck (apparently i have none) youll find them, im guessing they have to be unpacked

[Lord Humungus]

I have an interesting idea, don't know if it was suggested already.

I suppose you all played MTW1? The ones that did should remember nice feature about hidden traits (usually bad ones, such as "secret pervert", "secret heretic" etc.) that took effect only when they were "discovered" by spy. Can we make something like this?
I believe it is possible, because already there are some spy-scripted traits in MTW2 (all this security traits after detecting a lot of spies). All we need - a bunch of "secret xxx" taits (well, they won't be secret really, they'll just have no effect until detected by spy and changed to simply "xxx trait"). I don't know much about scripting, but I suppose it won't be difficult to make some script like:
If_spy_detection_success - change trait "secret pagan" to "pagan" chance "50%" (I know it's gibberish, but you get the idea).

So, in result, we'll have interesting situations like this: your english general goes crusading to Baltic region, captures Vilnius and stays there for too long (like 10 or 20 turns). He gets trait "secret pagan", which doesn't have any effects (yet). Then he gets back home to London, but french spy infiltrates it and finds out all the dark secrets! Trait becomes "public" - so your general is "openly pagan", gets huge penalties for piety, public order, papal favor and so on. You can come up with all sorts of bad traits and ways to get them, but I just offered basic idea.

So, what do you think?

[Zenith_Zenith]

more traits for priests:
- secretly apostate - he has apostated from the faith, but acts as if he didn't, in fear of death or persecution.

(perhaps heretic as well)
- self inflicted - this man is so religious, that cannot live happily knowing that he has mistaken or has done wrong something, so he punishes himself to attain forgiveness and lower more the chances of being punished for them in the afterlife. (I know it sounds crazy, but it was practiced, and perhaps it is still).

only for christians (if possible)
-stigmata - he has suffered the wounds of the cross in his body, miraculously, which is a proof of holiness and a strengthening that he follows the right path.

only for heretics:
- false stigmata - he has inflicted himself wounds on his hands, claiming to be inflicted miraculously by God, as a proof of his holiness and to convince others that his ways are correct and must be followed.

- diabolises his adversaries - he represents the ones that contradict him as diabolical, with great evil intentions and plans, even that they secretly worship the devil, to convince the people (or, followers) that they must be avoided with all costs, and that people (or, his followers) should be very strong in not taking heed to anything they say, and teaching that himself is the only reliable person, the only person they can trust, and must trust!

priests, perhaps similar for heretics as well:
- loves to be right all the time - he knows that his official job (or what is called) is to teach people, and that makes him believe that he knows everything and that everything he says must be true. Therefore, he gets very annoyed when questioned by a layman (i.e. if the layman believes otherwise that particular thing and expects the priest/imam/etc. some logic so he (the layman) would have the thing clear and set how it is exactly. Instead, the priest/imam/etc. sees this as "what, you know better than me, your teacher??").

for heretics:
- hates the truth - when he is confronted with sound doctrine and very good logic (i.e. from cardinals, bishops, imams, etc.), he gets very angry, and doesn't want to listen. (the inverse is when the priest/imam/etc. may not have sound doctrine and very good logic).

for witches: perhaps it's best to have more levels: amateur (she only knows a few tricks, but they work only sometimes), novice, unskilled, skilled, very skilled, unmatched witch (she knows so many rituals, practices and spells, that it is hard to find any match (i.e. a witch the same skilled as her)

for generals:
there are two similar things, I don't know if they should be combined or leave them so:
- fights for the faith - he is eager to fight the infidels, if the religious leaders request it and he is allowed by the King/Emperor/Sultan. (for catholics and muslims this applies as well: he is eager to fight in a crusade/jihad.)
- defender of the faith - he realizes the danger of the other religions and that they may attack his country and force their religion on his own people, and he decided to do all he can not to let that happen.

to priests, generals, perhaps even other agents:
- indoctrinated - he has been imbued with doctrine/teachings since child, and now he is devoted in defending them with all cost, without thinking or finding rational explanations to them. Moreover, when he talks about them, he always speaks loudly and authoritatively to make sure that the others receive them (i.e. the teachings/beliefs) without thinking them as well.
priests: +2/3 violence, -2 purity
generals: +1 piety, - popularity + unrest
diplomat (if he fits): -diplomatic skills
princess (if she fits): -2/3 charm
heretic (I guess he fits as well, if he lived in a heretical family or was converted by a heretic): + piety.

also, for priests, perhaps even other agents:
priest:
- materialist - though as a religious leader he supposed to focus on the spiritual issues, he is attracted only to material things like money, richness, social status, popularity (respect/veneration from layman). - piety -purity

for heretics: he is doing all he can to convince people of his evident truth, but doesn't forget to take the money from their pockets. + piety (he's a heretic, so materialist is a plus)

for generals: he is pure materialist: all it matters for him is money and fame. he regards foolish things as love, devotion to faith, caring for somebody else, etc. -piety, -chivalry, - tax income

for princesses - she can only show 'love' to a man that has high social status and is very reach. And that's the only thing she needs of a man. -charm, of course

then, as Byzantium guard suggested in the post after this: "humanists and scientists were considered heretics.":
humanist and scientist might work well as heretic and perhaps even general traits.