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Thread: Thoughts on Spies

  1. #1
    B-DizL's Avatar TGW Lead Modeller
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    Default Thoughts on Spies

    Id like to see spies changed in the following ways....

    1. Make spies spawn from either government buildings or from a barracks, get rid of the lodge altogether.
    2. Increase the number of spies overall.
    3. Make only very high level spies be able to assassinate generals.
    4. Make spies gain stars a little faster(they never seem to gain stars in vanilla).
    5. Reduce the number of turns it takes to set up a spy network.

    What do you guys think? any other changes you can think of?

  2. #2
    The Hedge Knight's Avatar Fierce When Cornered
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    Default Re: Thoughts on Spies

    Im not sure 3 is possible. 4 is difficult but not impossible i think...

  3. #3
    B-DizL's Avatar TGW Lead Modeller
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    Default Re: Thoughts on Spies

    Quote Originally Posted by 'The Hedge Knight View Post
    Im not sure 3 is possible. 4 is difficult but not impossible i think...
    Couldnt you just increase the value that determines success for assassination so that only high level exp would give success? and increase the value that gives stars so each success gives more exp, or is the difficulty finding those values?

  4. #4

    Default Re: Thoughts on Spies

    I thought spies were going to be changed to planes...?
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Thoughts on Spies

    Well I'm pretty sure all spies could start with a trait that gives them extra stars.

    But yeah, it appears that I can't add new abilities so we might have to remove them to make room for planes (though we should still have spy planes so its not a big deal).
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  6. #6
    B-DizL's Avatar TGW Lead Modeller
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    Default Re: Thoughts on Spies

    i think the idea of using spies as planes is inherently flawed, and we need to have spies, they played a large part in the war and should not be removed IMO

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Thoughts on Spies

    I dont thik spys played a big part in WW1 as they did in WW2, i think it would be a good idea as suggested to make an Agent a Assasin (bi-plane), and it call it a squadron, if it could be implemented, instead of an agent only being able to target a General/building, if they could a unit in the stack instead, say, they just strafed a Machine Gun Unit killing the whole unit right out, instead of just taking one man, Only way to counter this would to have the Spy in each army (acting as AA or mabey Air to Air defence protecting the Stack) only trouble is, not sure if the AI would use it as effectivily as my theory, not sure if thats well explained thou

    Edit: for the Agent Video outcomes, it could perhaps snap some movie footage, althou if the AI doesn't protect it stacks with Agents you could probably keep strafin them with Agents if they gain elite status, i understand you cant implement them as a unit as the engine doesnt allow for them, as they can be engaged in melee i think?
    Last edited by AgentGB; August 27, 2010 at 08:06 PM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Thoughts on Spies

    Indeed, but planes still need to be included somehow. And King Sama, I don't think planes made spy networks...?
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  9. #9

    Default Re: Thoughts on Spies

    Quote Originally Posted by BDIZZLE356 View Post
    i think the idea of using spies as planes is inherently flawed, and we need to have spies, they played a large part in the war and should not be removed IMO
    Well I think that how spies are made in napoleon don't exactly represent spies in ww1. But I suppose it would be possible to retain a spy unit in the purest sense of the word (i.e. only spying ability, nothing else). However, to me that would just be useless micromanagement ( I barely use them now anyway). And I think planes are much more important and interesting to include. So we'll see, but given a choice I'd prefer airplanes over spies every time.

    @Icy Fresh Werewolf
    They don't need to, but I think if I give spy planes the spy ability the spy netwrok will come with it. But yeah, now that I think of it we could have both
    Last edited by King Sama; August 27, 2010 at 08:06 PM.
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  10. #10
    B-DizL's Avatar TGW Lead Modeller
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    Default Re: Thoughts on Spies

    You guys should watch the documentaries i posted, many spies were used (mostly in the middle east) there was a group of german spies dressed up as a traveling circus that tried to get afganistan attack india... also spies were used in europe to try to encite rebellion in their enemies countries.

    But the main problem with spies as airplanes is you cant have a stack of spies so managing a decent sized air force would be a nightmare IMO, im gona do a write up on my idea for planes soon...

  11. #11

    Default Re: Thoughts on Spies

    Quote Originally Posted by BDIZZLE356 View Post
    You guys should watch the documentaries i posted, many spies were used (mostly in the middle east) there was a group of german spies dressed up as a traveling circus that tried to get afganistan attack india... also spies were used in europe to try to encite rebellion in their enemies countries.

    But the main problem with spies as airplanes is you cant have a stack of spies so managing a decent sized air force would be a nightmare IMO, im gona do a write up on my idea for planes soon...
    Also you can't recruit spies, spies just randomly come to you... hmmm...
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  12. #12
    B-DizL's Avatar TGW Lead Modeller
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    Default Re: Thoughts on Spies

    Quote Originally Posted by Icey Fresh Werewolf View Post
    Also you can't recruit spies, spies just randomly come to you... hmmm...
    oh yeah forgot about that downside too thats even bigger of a problem then not being able to have stacks.... + rep

  13. #13
    Aanker's Avatar Concordant
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    Default Re: Thoughts on Spies

    Point is, even though there certainly were spies on both sides, spies simply couldn't carry out the tasks of revealing and photographing enemy positions, or strike as powerful blows at a nation's economy as they can in the vanilla game. Therefore, planes would be the ideal replacements; fighters and spy planes could capture, in detail, how the enemy had arranged his forces, his reinforcements, etc. Furthermore, bombers could destroy at least some structures, and attack enemy HQs (killing generals).

    PS. The spy network would of course be "Air Superiority":

    Your squadrons have established air superiority over this area, meaning that spy planes now have unhindered access to the skies above your enemy. All his activities should now be revealed on homecoming mission reports and photographies.
    Last edited by Aanker; August 28, 2010 at 01:36 AM.

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  14. #14
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    Default Re: Thoughts on Spies

    I thought spies will be made airplanes, and the lodges airports
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  15. #15

    Default Re: Thoughts on Spies

    Quote Originally Posted by BDIZZLE356 View Post
    oh yeah forgot about that downside too thats even bigger of a problem then not being able to have stacks.... + rep
    1)you wouldn't have so many airplanes in ww1 so you wouldn't need stacks. Also the individual plane agents should represent fleets, so it would be further justified to not have as many agents.

    2)there might be some irregularity, but if you raise the chance of a plane agent spawning to say 100%, then it would be completely dependent on the agent cap. This means that with technology and buildings we can raise the agent cap, and thus control exactly how many airfleets the player has.

    Regardless, I would be interested in hearing your ideas.
    Last edited by King Sama; August 28, 2010 at 08:41 AM.
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  16. #16
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    Default Re: Thoughts on Spies

    Quote Originally Posted by King Sama View Post
    1)you wouldn't have so many airplanes in ww1 so you wouldn't need stacks. Also the individual plane agents should represent fleets, so it would be further justified to not have as many agents.

    2)there might be some irregularity, but if you raise the chance of a plane agent spawning to say 100%, then it would be completely dependent on the agent cap. This means that with technology and buildings we can raise the agent cap, and thus control exactly how many airfleets the player has.

    Regardless, I would be interested in hearing your ideas.
    i actually like that concept so far! will be teadious work, sortin out new traits aswell! but will add more campaign depth for sure! making agents alot more enjoyble

    another little idea thou its going off topic, i understand each bullet as its own trajectory, if you guys could get yourselves a good animator, mabey animate for soilders laying flat or going prone , making them harder to hit, mabey added in the "light infantry doctrine" making artillery being the tool to dig them out, could act as a assault/raid/patrol class, just an idea anyway

  17. #17
    'Gunny's Avatar Überrock über alles
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    Default Re: Thoughts on Spies

    Is it perhaps possible to carry the provocator thing over? lol incite rebellions etc

  18. #18
    Herr Lindstrom's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Thoughts on Spies

    I think i've mentioned this before but. why not make spies act or look like air squadrons. i mean.. it's impossable in the game engine to add planes into the battle map so instead replace spies with planes. I mean... they can sabotauge buildings right? so that would act as a bombing run on that target. the only hard thing to do is to damage some units on a "strafing run"

  19. #19

    Default Re: Thoughts on Spies

    Quote Originally Posted by pvtgunny View Post
    Is it perhaps possible to carry the provocator thing over? lol incite rebellions etc
    I think its based on religion and thus indirectly effects unrest. We do however have the pamphlets ability.

    @Herr Lindstorm
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