About the Fyrd

[danova]

Ceorlwerod - *(Fyrd: only for saxons)
Infantry - Light/Heavy - Sword+Shields

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Ceorlwerod were the true middle class, landowners with a sizeable farm and connected family which supported slaves and lowerclasses working the fields around them, often lotted and hired out to thralls. The Churls were men of varying power and wealth yet all had good means to equip themselves for war, who could for example transport themselves to the levy gatherings by horse or even fight as light horsemen if required. They were dutybound to their local leaders, the Thegns, as well as bound by honour to protect their homes. They were no strangers to military service even if it was not their chosen way of life.
Ceorlwerod have armour and swords, and it is dangerous to the other infantrys.

We thinking on about the Fyrd

What kind of mechanism would be better for the Fyrd?


Call the Fyrd with mercenary mechanism...
limited to the saxons, cheap to hire, upkeep is multiplied by about 50%

Call the fyrd by garrison script with yes/no option...
units are free, but upkeep is high, the fyrd units will be disbanded after a while

Something else, read my comment...

... or any oppinion or idea.



Fyrd unit (only only for saxons):
Hundradeflocc (Missile with Javelin/Axe)
Geoguthas (Infantry with Spear)
Ceorlwerod (Infantry with Sword)

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[danova]

Someone?
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[MagUidir]

the Ceorlwerod look sweet. wouldnt mind having them recruitable! haha good job!

[Warface93]

i´m for the yes no option
and nice unit danova!

[danova]

thanks mates.
...its very strange feeling because i made in this unit a long rótim age (January 02, 2009)
.

[Warface93]

but are you sure the fyrd was so well equipned as in the picture?
i think they were untrained peasants

[danova]

but are you sure the fyrd was so well equipned as in the picture?
i think they were untrained peasants

Yes, sure:

... Ceorlwerod were the true middle class, landowners with a sizeable farm and connected family which supported slaves and lowerclasses working the fields around them, often lotted and hired out to thralls. The Churls were men of varying power and wealth yet all had good means to equip themselves for war, who could for example transport themselves to the levy gatherings by horse or even fight as light horsemen if required. They were dutybound to their local leaders, the Thegns, as well as bound by honour to protect their homes. They were no strangers to military service even if it was not their chosen way of life.They were dutybound to their local leaders, the Thegns, as well as bound by honour to protect their homes. They were no strangers to military service even if it was not their chosen way of life.

.. but they are small in numbers. The mass are followings:
Hundradeflocc (Missile with Javelin/Axe)
Geoguthas (Infantry with Spear)

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[MagUidir]

true, most were poor and used spears or their farming tools... cant wait this mod looks great.

[IrishBlood]

i voted for the first option, hiring them as merc's, i think this would be a much simpler option

[redxavier]

Simpler to be sure, but not very interesting. The idea of hiring fyrd units is almost as wrong as being able to recruit them. Calling the fyrd to arms should be the only way to get the fyrd units and their use should be limited.

Fyrds fit into the gameplay by being an almost instant army that support your professional troops when you go up against powerful enemies (i.e., the vikings), but this free army is balanced by the fact that you can only call it once every 12 turns, their strength is only in their numbers, they cannot be retrained or replenished and they autodisband after 3 or 4 turns.

In the progress thread, I suggested scripting the spawning of a fyrd army in a region after the player has constructed a building in the settlement. So it sorts of works like this:

Player fulfills requirements for calling a fyrd in the region -> call fyrd building becomes available -> player wants to call the fyrd to fight a viking army -> player adds call fyrd building to queue -> building finished next turn -> fyrd army (3-6 units?) spawned in region -> player uses fyrd army to supplement their professional troops to fight off viking army -> 3 turns pass -> message pops up 'fyrd want to go home' -> player destroys building -> fyrd units automatically disband.

You could probably have it so that you can keep the fyrd in the field for longer, but with some penalty like you have to pay more money, but you shouldn't ever be able to keep a fyrd active for longer than 6 turns (i.e., half a year).

Under this system, each region has its own fyrd units. So you'd have Ceorlwerod of Winchester and Ceorlwerod of York etc. You could combine the fyrd armies of two or 3 regions together to form a powerful army to beat off a full scale viking invasion or launch your own invasion into viking held territory.

[diiter]

I like the idea of redxavier... You could also add serious unrest linked with the "call fyrd"-building, but occuring not until the fyrd wants to go home... this way even very rich players are forced to destroy the "call fyrd"-building sooner or later, respectively let the fyrd go home.

[Celtichugs123]

Brilliant thought Redxavier, also the Unrest penalty is a brilliant idea. Would make perfect Historic and gameplay sense.

[Warface93]

oh, i thought the showen unit is the only fyrd unit

[worldsdead]

i like the merc idea, because in history you can't just call a fyrd and they're all there ready.
but with the merc units, they could be free and recruitable in each territory in set amounts. this way you'd have to send a general/ generals around to your provinces to gather the fyrd.
then when unit routs/ killed/ disband, that unit could be up for recruitment again in their region after a certain amount of turns.
i don't know if its doable but maybe you could make fyrd units likely to desert after a certain amount of turns? farmers and land owners never liked to be away from home for long. also think after first turn they should be cost prohibitive because in history you were losing the income of the working class, maybe make them cost more per each turn, to simulate unused land and shops in their homeland.

[Peteriscoolz]

I vote mercanary.I think the garrison script would be messy and would take a while to do.But another thing if you do add them as mercanry how are you going to do it? I mean are you going to tie it in with a specific event?For example:

 
unit Crusader Sergeants  exp 0 cost 210 replenish 0.15 - 0.35 max 2 initial 1  end_year 1280 religions { catholic } crusading

Or are you going to tie it in with a mission or specific event? Such as in TATW:

 
unit Rhovanion Mercs,   exp 0 cost 780 replenish 0.02 - 0.04 max 1 initial 1  events { mission_defend_dale_success } factions { timurids }

[Csatádi]

redxavier, I like your building idea but danova doesn't and he is the mod leader.

Peteriscoolz, the first version without crusading

worldsdead, we can make random and other parameters into scripts. For example to link fyrd unit numbers to the faction leader's authority.

[danova]

true, most were poor and used spears or their farming tools... cant wait this mod looks great.

I dont think the Fyrd's units were badly trained and unweaponed.
In the eraly times most of he Fyrd's units used javelin and some used spear and shields, and wealthy ones had good weapons. As far as i know they had training few times in every year.

More interesting info:
http://www.regia.org/warfare/fyrd1.htm
http://www.regia.org/warfare/fyrd2.htm

for early Fyrd:

…
These descriptions are borne out by archaeology. Male burials in the pagan period were often accompanied by war gear. On average around 47% of male burials from the pagan period contain weapons of some sort. This figure has often been used to argue for the idea of a "nation in arms", but has conveniently overlooked the fact that although spears were found in just over 86% of the accompanied burials, shields were found in only 44%. As we have seen earlier, and as the literary evidence bears out, spear and shield made up the basic war-gear of an Anglo-Saxon warrior. It should be borne in mind that, although the spear was used in battle, it was also a tool of the hunt. Many of the interred spears probably represent hunting tools rather than weapons. As we start to look at other types of weapon, we find they are far less common than the spear and shield. Swords are found in only about 12% of accompanied burials, axes in about 2% and seaxes (traditionally, the knife from which the Saxons derive their name.) only about 4%. This makes for an interesting comparison with the Saxons" continental homelands where some 50 - 70% contained seaxes.
…
It would seem likely from these sources that the kings and more important noblemen would possess a coat-of-mail and a crested helmet, a sword, shield and spear(s). Noblemen of middling rank may have possessed a helm, perhaps a sword, and a shield and spear(s). The lowest ranking warriors would have been equipped with just a shield and spear(s), and perhaps a secondary weapon such as an axe or seax.
Regia Anglorum

for late Fyrd:

…
How Alfred's fyrdmen were equipped is uncertain, although spears and shields still remained the prime weapons. It may well be that this was all the equipment the average burwaran would use, possibly supplied to him by his lord. The fyrdmen, on the other hand were a professional warrior class, drawn from amongst the wealthiest men in the country, expecting to face a well equipped, professional enemy army. The evidence we have suggests that helmets, swords and mailshirts had become much more common by the time of Alfred's reforms, and most of the fyrd would have been equipped with at least a helm and sword in addition to their spear, shield and horse. Many would also have possessed a mailshirt. Some of the more well off burwaran may also have been equipped in a similar way to the fyrd.
Regia Anglorum

[danova]

Yes redxavier, my older idea is very similar.
... but i dont want to connect for a building (the Fyrd), because in this case we get a normal vanila recruit system... just a difference is building type (barrack vs fyrd 'building').

But i'm opened.

Simpler to be sure, but not very interesting. The idea of hiring fyrd units is almost as wrong as being able to recruit them. Calling the fyrd to arms should be the only way to get the fyrd units and their use should be limited.

Fyrds fit into the gameplay by being an almost instant army that support your professional troops when you go up against powerful enemies (i.e., the vikings), but this free army is balanced by the fact that you can only call it once every 12 turns, their strength is only in their numbers, they cannot be retrained or replenished and they autodisband after 3 or 4 turns.

In the progress thread, I suggested scripting the spawning of a fyrd army in a region after the player has constructed a building in the settlement. So it sorts of works like this:

Player fulfills requirements for calling a fyrd in the region -> call fyrd building becomes available -> player wants to call the fyrd to fight a viking army -> player adds call fyrd building to queue -> building finished next turn -> fyrd army (3-6 units?) spawned in region -> player uses fyrd army to supplement their professional troops to fight off viking army -> 3 turns pass -> message pops up 'fyrd want to go home' -> player destroys building -> fyrd units automatically disband.

You could probably have it so that you can keep the fyrd in the field for longer, but with some penalty like you have to pay more money, but you shouldn't ever be able to keep a fyrd active for longer than 6 turns (i.e., half a year).

Under this system, each region has its own fyrd units. So you'd have Ceorlwerod of Winchester and Ceorlwerod of York etc. You could combine the fyrd armies of two or 3 regions together to form a powerful army to beat off a full scale viking invasion or launch your own invasion into viking held territory.

[Peteriscoolz]

Sadly garrison script is number one

[redxavier]

Yes redxavier, my older idea is very similar.
... but i dont want to connect for a building (the Fyrd), because in this case we get a normal vanila recruit system... just a difference is building type (barrack vs fyrd 'building').

But i'm opened.

I should clarify, the building doesn't actually do anything, it doesn't allow for recruitment of the fyrd units - it is only the trigger for a fyrd army to spawn and is merely an alternative to scripting a Yes/No event. With a Yes/No event you have to find some way to activate it, like using ButtonPressed (but which button?) or tying it into a condition (settlementundersiege?) but use a building and you give the player full control over when it starts - the campaign_script merely monitors the completion of the building in a settlement and then spawns the army somewhere in the region (most likely the middle). Further, when you destroy the building, that then also triggers the disbanding of all the fyrd units, but also allows you to keep playing with the settlement's fyrd units under increasingly severe penalties. That stuff would be complicated to script, but the building makes it a lot easier to do.

So the building isn't a building at all - it's merely an entity that starts and ends the script. Its picture wouldn't show a building either - just text saying 'Call Fyrd' or something.

i like the merc idea, because in history you can't just call a fyrd and they're all there ready.

Except with the merc option that's precisely what they would do - be there immediately. With a script, you can delay their appearance, a turn for example, to simulate the amount of time it takes them to muster.