Could Isreal regain it's power?

[XSlingerX]

In biblical times, God made a covenant with the Isrealites to bless them through all generations. He would give them fertile land, make them wealthy, and fight alongside them in battles so they would always be victorious. However, should the Isrelites sin, he vowed to give them drought, make them poor, and have them lose battle to their enemies.

God said he would keep this promise for all time to come, so my question is...

If the Isrealites renewed their covenant with god and did not sin, could the once again become the most powerful nation?

I say yes, because God's promises remain constant. Though I find it unlikely that they will renew their covenant.

Please discuss, and no flaming.

[Turbo]

Depends on what you believe.

From my Christian perspective and opinion only. I am speaking only for myself --
Jews lost that covenant when they rejected Christ message. When they agreed to crucify Christ, they said let his blood be on our head. The people have found no peace. Even though they are now a nation, it is a nation that persecutes the muslims and is hated for this by the muslims (this doesn't however justify the terrorism). Their legacy is unfortunately going to continue to be one of suffering and blood.

[Atheist Peace]

God has nothing to do with whether a nation strengthens in terms of power or not.

[Francisco Montana]

In biblical times, God made a covenant with the Isrealites to bless them through all generations. He would give them fertile land, make them wealthy, and fight alongside them in battles so they would always be victorious. However, should the Isrelites sin, he vowed to give them drought, make them poor, and have them lose battle to their enemies.

God said he would keep this promise for all time to come, so my question is...

If the Isrealites renewed their covenant with god and did not sin, could the once again become the most powerful nation?

I say yes, because God's promises remain constant. Though I find it unlikely that they will renew their covenant.

Please discuss, and no flaming.

Interesting take on today's reality, XSlingerX.

Maybe after the dust settles from the end of this current struggle the whole world might rethink their faith in something greater than themselves.

Funny how our own arrogance is leading to our demise.

Funnier still that someone called it 2000+ yrs ago.

[Boudicca]

The question is: Did Israel ever have the powers promised by god.

The kingdom of Saul was highly controversial. He was not even permitted to build god's temple. The blood of too many people was on his hands. It seems to me that only Salomon was non disputed from a legal perspective. So, did israel ever stand up to what it had been promised..that would be a question I would ask first.

[XSlingerX]

The kingdom of Saul was highly controversial. He was not even permitted to build god's temple. The blood of too many people was on his hands. It seems to me that only Salomon was non disputed from a legal perspective. So, did israel ever stand up to what it had been promised..that would be a question I would ask first.

I wouldn't be able to answer that, I have only read up to Joshua so far.

The question is: Did Israel ever have the powers promised by god.

As I have only read up to Joshua, yes, so far Isreal has had the powers promised by God. (ex. Conquering the Cannanites, taking their land)

[Sidus Preclarum]

[INDENT]If the Isrealites renewed their covenant with god and did not sin, could the once again become the most powerful nation?

Israel & Judah never had much power to start with...

I say yes, because God's promises remain constant. Though I find it unlikely that they will renew their covenant.

I say no, because "God's covenenant" was an a posteriori historiographic thesis trumped at the time of Josias, to justify his religious reforms, as well as bolstering his claims on the former land of the Northern Kingdom, from which the Assyrians were withdrawing.
It was kept after the fall of Jerusalem, because interpretating everything that had happened , bad or good, to the Hebrews in in terms of a direct result of abiding by said mystical covenenant, (and drawing the logical extension that everything that would henceforward happen to them will also result from success or failure in keeping true to the convenant) was a wonderful mean to (re)create the cultural, political & religious identity of a people who had been scattered in foreign lands.
It still serves this purpose wonderfully.

[Tom Paine]

Having broken the Covenant, surely God gets to punish them? And surely he'll mainfest or otherwise renew it if he isn't going to punish them?

[Mr.Flint]

Frankly one can argue that the Covenant was broken only in the eyes of christians.... and Israel rose and even surpassed in power today.
Squeakus: oh we did get our punishment..............

[Tigran of Sasoun]

The fact is that its not just Arabs and Muslims who hate Jews.

But Jews will never be powerful again. In Christian teaching thier nation will be destroyed by thier enemies, and surrouning neighbours. But Jews are not damed to hell, just are not favoured to have greatness as in Davids days or Solamons.

Edit: Jews have always survided during these past few hundred years and never been great. The Jews now are not powerful, but strong enough to put fear in the hearts of thier enemies not to attack. But Isreal will be destroyed in prophesy. Infact there is many prophesies that Isreal is destroy.

[Lee1026]

The Jews will never rise if they don't drop this silly idea of a "chosen people". There is a reason why in most of history, the Jews were deeply unpopular and were a ready made scape goat. Saying you are superior to everyone else tend to make you unpopular.

[Mr.Flint]

The fact is that its not just Arabs and Muslims who hate Jews.

But Jews will never be powerful again. In Christian teaching thier nation will be destroyed by thier enemies, and surrouning neighbours. But Jews are not damed to hell, just are not favoured to have greatness as in Davids days or Solamons.

Edit: Jews have always survided during these past few hundred years and never been great. The Jews now are not powerful, but strong enough to put fear in the hearts of thier enemies not to attack. But Isreal will be destroyed in prophesy. Infact there is many prophesies that Isreal is destroy.

Indeed there are many people who hate us....
Never were great? as a whole? maybe... on personal level though Jews achieved much against all odds in all aspects of life.
Define powerfull....
Compared to the biblical times, Israel today is far far more powefull.
Evangelists beleive the opposite, infact they think that existance of Israel is crucial for christianity. so who is right?

The Jews will never rise if they don't drop this silly idea of a "chosen people". There is a reason why in most of history, the Jews were deeply unpopular and were a ready made scape goat. Saying you are superior to everyone else tend to make you unpopular.

Being ignorant is making you popular though ...
One of the greatest crimes of humanity against jews is IGNORANCE. Jews do not say they are superior to everyone else, being Chosen doesnt mean being better, it means that you have to be better, as in strive to be better or put an effort to be better. Jews required to follow 613 commandments while gentiles only 7. Being Chosen means that you are judged harsher for your trangressions than anyone else.
Jews weredeeply unpopular first, because they were too different, and shunned the popular customs of the time ,
and then Christianity came, you know the rest...

and as side note, your comment lee is very offensive and insulting.

[Lee1026]

Problem is, most Jews didn't know that either. Look at the first post, if that is not proof that they think that they are better, then I don't see what is.

For more proof of that, look up Zionism.

On a side note, there are other groups that were very different, and none of them were shunned as thoughly as the jews were.

[Mr.Flint]

Problem is, most Jews didn't know that either. Look at the first post, if that is not proof that they think that they are better, then I don't see what is.

For more proof of that, look up Zionism.

On a side note, there are other groups that were very different, and none of them were shunned as thoughly as the jews were.

Prove me that jews dont know that....
That one skewed way of understanding....
I am a zionist, got a problem with it?
oh yeah? what about the Roma people?

the stink of an anti-semite growing stronger here....

[Lee1026]

What about Roma people?

Zionism is a extremely racist concept. It is the idea of forcing out others to make "living space" for yourself. For any such concept to appear at all means that it is racist in nature: we deserve the land better then they do.

[Damocles]

You guys seem to be missing a whole lot of modern history in favor of ancient vague statements.

Israel has been an immensly successful nation since 1948. They've won seemingly impossible wars and are the most powerful nation in the Middle East by far.

[Mr.Flint]

What about Roma people?

Zionism is a extremely racist concept. It is the idea of forcing out others to make "living space" for yourself. For any such concept to appear at all means that it is racist in nature: we deserve the land better then they do.

Well well ignorance in its prime....
Roma people were persecuted as much if sometimes more than jews, those people had and actually still have a hell of a life....
You obviously dont know much about Zionism...
enlighten yourself
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism

[Lee1026]

The Jews did expell the arabs, and the modern settlements were also one group of people forceblly expelling another, for "living space"

and as for the Gypsies, they were not the the offical scape goat for anything that went wrong that teh jews were.

[Mr.Flint]

The Jews did expell the arabs, and the modern settlements were also one group of people forceblly expelling another, for "living space"

True, to a small extent, but were they expelled for "Racist" reasons, as you trying to portray? for the most part no.
settlements rarely caused expulsion if any... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlement

and as for the Gypsies, they were not the the offical scape goat for anything that went wrong that teh jews were.

yet every time when a horse was stolen, gypsies were the suspects... that smell like an official scape goat as well...
but frankly what is your point? that its jews own fault that they are hated?

do me a favor, get an education...

[Sidus Preclarum]

Edit: Jews have always survided during these past few hundred years and never been great.

The jews's religion made them derive inner spiritual strentgh from external temporal weakness. Which was a at times a necessity, really, condisering the vicissitudes history made them go through

The Jews now are not powerful, but strong enough to put fear in the hearts of thier enemies not to attack.

as a regional power, modern-day Israel can be regarded as "powerful".
Far more so than either Israel or Judah ever were in ancient times.

But Isreal will be destroyed in prophesy. Infact there is many prophesies that Isreal is destroy.

somebody actually believe that ?