BROKEN CRESCENT 3.0 PREVIEW - EDU and Battle System Preview and Release

[Babygod22]

Yea I like that, in the orriginal EDU I only need to charge from the back about 1-2 time then they start running already, too fast for my taste.

Not sure if this is a mistake you've made but the late knights of sait John cavalry unit have the horse armour of KoJ bodyguard, it's kinda weird to see red horsemen on blue horses.

[Tony83]

Lol - OK, fair comment, but who said anything about wanting to field a bucket load of full stacks!

I'm contending is that your new EDU radically changes the outlook financially and, thereby, the tenure of the campaign, from one of steady growth to a campaign of early blitzing to survive.

Both styles of campaign are equally entertaining to those who like one or the other, and there are plenty of RTW and Med II mods around to satisfy most peoples' tastes, so there's no huge problem.

We all have our preferred style of play, and all I'm saying is that I don't care to play campaigns that force me down the blitzing route. Just because I prefer a gentler campaign and playing on M/M doesn't mean that I enjoy playing the game or get immersed any less than those who like blitzing on VH/VH, this isn't a pissing contest in that respect.

I've enjoyed playing BC since the day it was released, in all its incarnations, and I am quite happy to wait to play BC3 once it is released.

And, yes, I have played EB, many times, and I'm surprised that you consider its setup imbalanced, that is certainly not the case with their Roman campaign, in fact I would say that it is similar structured to your Roman one in 2.02!

Just because you can't field a million fullstacks per turn, doesn't make it financially unbalanced. If you ever played Europa Barbarorum, every faction starts with an imbalanced budget, and has to blitz or balance, quickly. Same thing is true here.

It isn't hard to play a successful campaign on VH/VH - you have to play it sound, and make decisions count. It isn't unbalanced, it is an honest challenge to the players. From all the times I hear people say that campaigns are easy thanks to battles - no longer.

Play it smart, and you can have a good sized surplus and take a few settlements, within a few short turns. You can't always have your cake and eat it too; and don't judge a book by its cover.

And, you may say that this isn't EB - but this is in fact, features an easier economy than EB. And, from what I know, EB is one of the most highly rated mods not only for its historical accuracy, but because it offers a good challenge.

[Tadzreuli]

avesome work , thanks and + rep

this file is for BC 2.02 or 3.0 v ?

[Neige]

@ Tony, capturing a few rebel towns at the beginning of the game isn't blitzing. After you've captured them, you can turtle as long as you want. Even in the 2.0 many complained about economy being too rough. The thing is that you must disband most of the elite units at the start of the game. Disband or use them wisely. In the end it turns out to be a very rewarding gameplay. Some people just don't know what's good for them.

[Tony83]

Oh Lordy! I wish I'd kept my trap shut now and just posted the usual "Well done guys!"

For, don't get me wrong, I love BC, it's one of my favourite Med II mods, it's just that I prefer my campaigns to have a quiter start. This is not an issue of right or wrong, simply one one akin to someone preferring their tea with sugar, and another without.

[Neige]

Well, considering how many people don't like the new economy, I think gamegeek2 might consider releasing 2 different EDUs for the release of 3.0... One for normal players, the other - for pussies.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Just kidding about the pussies. What! Don't look at me like that!

[Tony83]

Have at thee!

[gamegeek2]

I don't consider the EB economy imbalanced, nor is its setup imbalanced, either - except for the Ptollies (yellow fever!!!)

And by "blitz" that's what I mean, go after nearby locals quickly.

[General George Monck]

Hi GG,

A few points of support;
I am a long time fan of EB1.2 and alwasys play VH/VH for the challenge. I was anihilated three times as Pontos before I got things right. Then, with some luck, I conquered all the near east and even made it to the Indus river. I really enjoy BC2.02, but I can play as any faction on VH/VH, blitz and become a 20 region empire by about 1230 CE. I therefore agree with your analysis of what is reqired to bring BC up to the difficulty of EB.

However;
I am concerned that in order to acheive a kind of balance between cost and effectiveness some peasant units are being made too strong and some elite units are not elite enough. Would you consider allowing each faction access to a limitless supply of "Mud Scratchers", say 201 men per unit at say 50 florins upkeep, and then making the very best of the Heavy cavalry even better and making them cost, say 3000 florins foe 50 men. In my mind this one super elite unit should slaghter a full stack of "Mud Scratchers". What do you think?

[Lupu]

I tried out a lot of custom battles, and I really don't like the way heavy cav is set up. I have tried most elite cav in 1vs1, and they are all almost equal. Royal mamelukes and templars for example seem to be exactly just as good in close combat, same with khwarezmian guard which again is exactly as good as royal kataphractoi etc...... The differences are so minimal that which unit is stronger isn't determined by stats but by pure luck.

[fightermedic]

well its not THAT surprising that units with quite similar training and equipment and the same role on the battlefield are somewhat equal of strength

[onlygokhan]

Please add more units for Turkish sultanate.. it's immediately needed.. And I want to see "deliler (crazys)", "akıncılar (Turkish raiders)", "serdengeçti", some spearman units (it's urgently needed) and like these units in Broken Cresent 3.0 mod..

[diamutene]

Looks great!

[Babygod22]

gamegeek would you consider raising the unit's size in BC 3.0 to, say:

_200+ for peasant, militia and most low level spear units (make spear weaker ofcourse)
_150 for most missle and standard infantry, elite spear.
_120 for elite infantry unit.
_100 for low level horse archers and javelins cavalry
_80 for elite horse archers, elite javelins cavalry and light cavalry.
_60 or elite cavalry (make them more devastating in the charge)

This way people with bad computer can still choose small unit size to play with, while people with strong computer can enjoy the most out of it. With the Kindoms engine I think you'd be able to set them as high as 300

[Lupu]

I'm not going to argue too much about th heavy cav, it was just an overreaction on my part. But something useful, Ghorid Awan Horsemen lack a unit card picture. And are Sipahis supposed to have barded horses, they didn't have in 2.02 as I remember.

[babatje]

I did not like the endless spam of stacks in the previous mods... Are units going to be more expensive or are they ready to be spammed once more? I do like the idea of a middle east centred map and the awesome looking units in BC.

[Horatius Flaccus]

This is exactly what I missed in most (if not all) M2TW mods, and loved in EB. Well done gamegeek!

[gamegeek2]

I'm not going to argue too much about th heavy cav, it was just an overreaction on my part. But something useful, Ghorid Awan Horsemen lack a unit card picture. And are Sipahis supposed to have barded horses, they didn't have in 2.02 as I remember.

Eh, maybe Ghorids shouldn't have Awans, I think I added them to them.

I added barded horses to Sipahis on a whim, from what I've seen of depictions of Sipahis they had felt horses.

I am concerned that in order to acheive a kind of balance between cost and effectiveness some peasant units are being made too strong and some elite units are not elite enough.

This certainly happens in EB, no? Often, a few peasant skirms will kill a couple Hetairoi in a melee in EB, often more than that.

IIRC unit sizes don't go above 150 on basic M2TW, as said before; BC 3.0 will be on kingdoms and thus there will be more men per troop; I will make sure this doesn't increase unit costs.

[gamegeek2]

On the St. John knights, I mounted them on the blue horses...A. I like the contrast, and B. they needed an armoured horse IMO, given that they were at least as well armoured as the templars, and I didn't want to give them the "templar horse."

[gamegeek2]

To test out what you guys are saying about heavy cav, I ran some tests of Khwarezmian Cataphract Lancers (heaviest cavalry in the game) vs. a good assortment of units:

These are frontal charges

Akolouthoi - 40 killed
Spathatoi - 40-45 killed
Skutatoi - 10-15 killed
Vestiaritai - 10 killed
Pelekyphoroi - 25 killed
Stratatoi - 12-15 killed
Royal Kataphractoi - 3-4 killed

Stratatoi (from back, 120 strength) - 65 killed

Note that Byzantine units tend to be a step up in quality from many comparable units of their rivals.