Post Marius Legions

**makeshift52** · November 27, 2005, 06:54 AM

Have any of you noticed that the Republican Cohort's statistics are only 2 points overall better than princepes?

The princepes have better impact damage with their pilum and the Republican Cohorts have 1 better melee.

Why is the difference so slight?

**lt1956** · November 27, 2005, 08:29 AM

Its a balance issue. SPQR is not designed for UBER units. its based off these are the same men just better trained. The pilum doesnt change, its how it used that changes. the stats are adjusted and Early cohorts are MUCH better on the battlefield than Principes. Dont go by the Ingame stats, its the real stats that make a difference and the fact I tested out the performance of all the units.

There is other things like morale etc that make a difference, The Game just adds up all the points and shows that ingame, but it doesnt mean its acurrate. Go by how they perform in the field not some numbers in a box. lol

Test them out in custom battle Have 4 units of Gaul Chosen sword and then 4 units principes. Then do the same except with the early cohorts. You will see the difference.

Lt

**makeshift52** · November 27, 2005, 12:11 PM

Thanks very much, I was disappointed when I compared the two.

How muh better are they (I have barely played with them!)?

**mb1972** · November 28, 2005, 02:20 PM

They are far far better than the earlier principes. They lose far less men in battle and from my experience heal up better after the battle (using a general who has a healer stat). I just love the reforms. They turn my otherwise killer army into a real killer grinder, able to tear through multiply enemy armys with ease.

On a side note what type formations do you all use after the reforms? Here is mine:

-----L L L L-----
----L L L L L----
Sp-Sw-N-Sw-Sp
------A A-------
C------G------C
-------Sw-------

L=Legion Cohorts N=Named Legion Sp=Spear Aux Sw=Sword Aux A=Archers C=Calvery Aux G=General
1st line is always setup in shieldwall/hold formation 3 deep, 2nd line is regular formation/hold, and 3rd is same as 2nd line formation/hold. Archers are always set to not skermish and hold. All Legions including Named get switched to fire at will when the main enemy line starts to charge.

I just swing out a Aux and drop in a Seige equip when needed.

**lt1956** · November 28, 2005, 02:25 PM

Shield wall should be 2 deep for fairness of its design. CA's shield wall is also 2 ranks deep.

**jackwei** · November 28, 2005, 02:32 PM

Thats strange wasn't the republican Legions the once who really ruled the world at first under sulla, Marius, Pompey, Caesar and Octavian. remember these were the legions who smashed the gauls, germans under caeasr command, the mitradites, the britains, spartacus, numdian and so on. The republican legions under caesar and pompey in asia were unstoppable u could say. Look at caesar's legions the ones who smash gauls, germans, britons, pompeys troops in spain, Greece and senatoral faction in africa, more troops in spain, the ones in the asia minor and the egyptians. If u think about it these legions were prehaps the most effective ones overall. and basically ruled the world.

The republican legions have to be alot stronger than for the next mod.

**mb1972** · November 28, 2005, 02:41 PM

Hell, the Republican Legions as is rip through anything. I for one play SPQR due to it being harder than original R:TW. Doing that would just make it easier to steam roll then don't you think?

I'll switch to doing 2 deep on shield wall, LT.

**lt1956** · November 28, 2005, 04:10 PM

Um I can already get 100 losses to 3200 kills with the republic legions. Remember they were just MEN, it was TACTICS and training that made them conquer the world!

**Revan The Great** · November 28, 2005, 04:28 PM

The reason that Republican Cohorts conquered the world weren't superior soldiers, as people in fields of intelligence, physical fitness. They perhaps got that way, but what made them become better individual soldiers was simply experiance under great generals,and their success were due to great Generals commanding them. If you stuck Julius Caesar with "Imperial" Cohorts and, say, Gaius Vibius Volusianus (a very obscure emperor.) with "Republican" Cohorts, you would then claim the "Imperial" Cohorts are better, with their Lorica Segmentata instead of Lorica Hamata.

-Revan

**jackwei** · November 28, 2005, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by lt1956

Um I can already get 100 losses to 3200 kills with the republic legions. Remember they were just MEN, it was TACTICS and training that made them conquer the world!

Yeah well obviously they were men and the tactics and trainning made them conquer the world prehaps the greatest disaters these legions had were probably under marcus licnius Crassus in Partha. But still marian reforms these legions well to deal and to be able to withstand the barabarians especially the gauls and german and he did modifed the pila especially too and done much more. anyway the republican legions still rock and the defense of the legions is just right too it rocks. oh yeah by the way u i have the best spartans i've ever seen so far in a mod.

Are there any modifcations or changes ud think ud probably make for the next mod lt regarding the roman legions?

**makeshift52** · November 29, 2005, 01:50 AM

I have just begun to notice improvement, I just looked at the stats and they were the same. Sorry to waste everybodoy's time.

**Freddie** · November 29, 2005, 03:43 AM

Man for man the (in real life) the imperial legion was the superior solider if you compare to a republic legionnaire from Caesar’s time. He had better armor (plate instead of chain mail), better logistics (I never heard of a roman army that went hungry), and support (medics etc), better technology (blister bolts, scorpions improved pillia design).