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Thread: RTW Models for Spear/Javelin combo units?

  1. #1

    Default RTW Models for Spear/Javelin combo units?

    Are there some modified model somewhere for spear/javelin combination units in RTW? Problem is right now you can convert spear units to this, but the model has either the spear or javelin reversed. Sword units don't work as they retain the sword and its model. So I need edited CAS files. I figure some of you know what mods I could mine for that, or if any are offered as a package.

    I know Legionario did some testing of this and did edits for it in 1.2. I was hoping to find a few modified CAS files that do this for some of the units out there that are in the game already: the basic warband model, some of the peltasts (particularly like the heavy peltasts to make a proper thuerepheroi), scutarii, desert spearmen, and the samnite model. (Roman town watch might work for making early Republican army version.)

    Another interesting one would be the bastarnae model with javelins/rhomphaia and javelins/spear. (Making use of that proper pelte shield.)

  2. #2

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    I doubt this skeleton exists or we would have seen it by now :/

    I wish you the best of luck on making these happen - I too want to see units like peltasts carrying a spear (because it seems stupid that they only carry a dinky dagger for self-defense instead of just keeping a spear in reserve - just like the Franks did with their axes)

  3. #3

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    The skeletons are already there. Using the javelin and spearman skeletons works, but there are certain problems like the fact that javelins are reversed relative to spears. And of course sword based units without pila/jav need to be converted to spears, the skeleton switch is easy, but the other requires 3d modeling and reskinning (although the weapons are already available in some of the skins.) The big problem as I understand it is that the models with the appropriate features are not there. To edit the model you need 3D Studio Max...and that is extremely expensive. Hence the bottleneck. Since most modders are limited to skinning by this, RTW's modability is rather limited to using existing models.

    The only thing I know game mechanic wise does not work is using two melee weapons together: spear and sword without phalanx. If you give them the appropriate skeletons they CTD. You can sort of make it work by instead assigning two spear skeletons (which is not so bad looking). However, if you do that they seem to be somewhat confused as to when they should be holding/using each weapon. Afterall secondary melee weapons have been problematic for mounted troops.

  4. #4
    Hexdragon's Avatar Libertus
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    IIRC there is a model on Dimebagho's Extended Greek Mod named Elite Hypaspist

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge35
    IIRC there is a model on Dimebagho's Extended Greek Mod named Elite Hypaspist
    Thanks, I'll take a look at that one.

    Side note:
    I was rechecking what happens when you use: fs_javelinman, fs_spearman with an existing spearman unit (non-phalanx, in this case desert infantry.) You get a guy throwing his spear backwards as a javelin (because of the model), then when he switches to melee he is stabbing with no weapon in his hand. Kills pretty well though...because of the skeleton I suppose...not sure what the model is using, might be transparent spear projection. Without a properly adjusted model, it won't look right, although it is functionally just fine. That is a shame.

  6. #6

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    Thinking out loud...is there any chance of something like this becoming a small project? If folks have models that already do this that they want to donate or have the time to do and add, perhaps we could make a collection of them for general use? It would be sort of a spearman/javelinman enhancement pack that people could pick and choose from.

    I can't offer much more than testing to make sure they work/look right in battle along with some proposed names/description and suggested stats, then turning them into a bundle with generic instruction of how to incorporate each, along with credits for the creator contributor. Obviously, none of that is the hard work. The hard work is altering the model and adding the spear or javelin texture to the skin or tying it to the model.

    Time is going to get tight for me over the next 6 weeks...but I've been wanting something like this for a long time, so I could shepherd it as opportunity allows.

  7. #7
    Hexdragon's Avatar Libertus
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge35
    IIRC there is a model on Dimebagho's Extended Greek Mod named Elite Hypaspist
    Checked again...
    Is a sword javelin Model wrong advice sorry

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge35
    Checked again...
    Is a sword javelin Model wrong advice sorry
    Yeah, I had discovered that. I'm kind of surprised no modders seem to be going after this. Seems a rather simple way to expand the number of unit choices available. Could fill some nice gaps in Numidia, maybe even alter Germania, Thrace, etc. Would give the skinners a bunch of new options.

    Don't know if EB is doing this or not, perhaps it has sucked up all the modelers? EB seems like sort of a black hole at the moment...stuff keeps going in but nothing is coming out.

  9. #9

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    Bumping this...surprised at the lack of these type units. Are none of the RTW mods using them? I can see from the stats that there are several of these in BI.

  10. #10
    Civis
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    Hm, don't quote me on this, but IIRC, we have those kind of units in RTR. The spear+javelin combo works just fine. Again, I'm going by memory, as i haven't played in a while, but try downloading RTR 6.0, and see if that's what you want.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark89
    Hm, don't quote me on this, but IIRC, we have those kind of units in RTR. The spear+javelin combo works just fine. Again, I'm going by memory, as i haven't played in a while, but try downloading RTR 6.0, and see if that's what you want.
    Sorry, but you're being quoted. Yes, you are right. Looks like there are a bunch in there. I've been looking at the skins of a couple and tracking down their models. Guess I have some experimentation to do. Main problem I see for me is that they aren't using standard faction colors...so I might actually have to figure out how to rework the colors. I'm a mechanics/numbers guy, not Rembrandt.

    Wish I had that elephant javelin model for 1.3.

    Thanks.

  12. #12
    Hexdragon's Avatar Libertus
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge35
    Checked again...
    Is a sword javelin Model wrong advice sorry
    It was version issue.

    On XGM 3.2 and later all hypaspist are sword/javelin

    Earlier versions (i've downloaded XMG 2.2.1) have a spear/javelin model :sweatingb
    I didn't see the units, but the text file clearly says spear/javelin for the model (the sword/javelin model is also there).

    DimeBagho's XGM - Older versions:
    http://homepage.mac.com/abradbury/di...Sharing80.html
    http://homepage.mac.com/abradbury/dimebagho/Menu77.html

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