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Thread: Flavius Aetius - Last of the Romans? Or Backstabbing Generalissimo?

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    Default Flavius Aetius - Last of the Romans? Or Backstabbing Generalissimo?

    First a little background:

    Flavius Aetius was born around the year 396 in the Town of Durostorum (Silistria) Bulgaria. Durostorum was a military frontier town, as it had previously been the home of LEGIO XI CLAVDIA PIA FIDELIS. Not much is known about his early life, but we know he served as a page in the camp of Alaric from approx. 406-408 and in the camp of Rua from approx. 410-414. In his childhood he made many important friends, including Marcellinus, and most importantly, Attila. In 423, Honorius Died and Ioannes ursurped against the Theodosians. Placidia, Valentinian and Honoria fled to Constantinoplolis, to seek help. Meanwhile Ioannes had sent Flavius Aetius to the camp of Rua, to seek help from the Huns. He Retuned in October or November, 425 to find that Valentinian III had been placed on the throne earlier that month on the 23 by the Praesentalis army. Aetius engaged the Praesentalis and Italian field army, led by Ardabarus Asparus and Flavius Gaudentius, respecticvely. Aetius, outnumbered, drew them into a stalemate, and was granted the title of Magister Militum per Gallias, as they had no other options at that point. Aetius campaigned against the Franks and Visigoths sucessfully for the next 4 years, until Placidia pitted him in civil war against Felix and Bonifacius. Aetius killed them both; Felix in may, 430, and Bonifacius outside Rimini in 432. Bonifacius actually defeated Aetius, but died from a fatal injury. Ridiculed, Aetius returned in 433 at the head of a massive army of huns, in return for granting them Pannonia Savia. Aetius went again to Gaul and spain, as Aspar helped fight the Vandals in africa. In 439, Carthage was captured, and Litorius destroyed Aetius' foederati army after a mistake outside Tolosa, due to his lack of knowledge of the Huns. Fortunately he had rebuilt most of the western Field armie, and was launching a Campaign in late 440 to retake Africa, when Attila attacked the East. Without support, he redeployed his armies wherever it was necessary, preparing for a hunnish attack. The 440s were quiet, with only Merobaudes and Vitus campaining agianst the Suebes in spain between 443-446, and a campaign agianst the Alans and Franks from 448-449. In 450, Aetius prediction was made correct. Attila moved on gaul. His excuses were a wedding ring from Honoria and succession of the Franksih throne. Either way what happenned net is the part that actually matters. On June 20th, 451, Aetius and Theodoric with their Burgundian, Frankish, Alanic and Librone Allies engaged Attila's co-alition of Goths, Gepids, Huns, Alamanni, Franks, Sarmatians, Slavs, Thuringians and whatever else he could scrape out of his empire. The battle was relatively large, comparably to most. Each side averaged an estimated 70000 troops, with the Romans making up around 60-70% of he Allied forces. After a brutal battle, which resulted in the Death of Theodoric, Attila suffered his first actical Defeat and Retreat. He Returned in 452 only to retreat because of a shortage of Food, Plauge, and Attacks by the organized and readily supplied Roman Field Armies of Aetius, Marcellinus, and Marcian. In 453, Attila Died. Valentinian III saw that there was no need for him anymore, although there was in the long term. After the break up of the hunnic empire after Neado in 454, Aetius was murdered by Valentinian on September 21 of that year. Marcellinus usurped immediately, and Aegidius after the Death of Avitus, one of Aetius' patrons, in 457. Valentinian III was murdered on March 16, 455.

    I think he's the hero he's cut out to be. And that he rates as the one of the Top 5 Greatest Roman Generals. What do you think? Feel free to state your opinion.

    A few sources for this:

    The Fall of the Roman Empire: A New History of Rome and the Barbarians by Peter Heather
    Priscus
    Jordanes' Getica
    Merobaudes Pangeyrics of 432, 439, and 443.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flavius_Aetius
    Edward Gibbon's The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire - Abridged Edition
    The Ruin of the Roman Empire by James J. O'Donnel
    A Brief History of Byzantium by John Julius Norwich
    Hydatius, Chronicla 154
    Sidonius Apollinaris, Carmen VII, xii, 3

    This was based on breif excerpts from their books
    Last edited by Magister Militum Flavius Aetius; October 22, 2010 at 03:43 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Flavius Aetius - Last of the Romans? Or Backstabbing Generalissimo?

    cant he be both?



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    Default Re: Flavius Aetius - Last of the Romans? Or Backstabbing Generalissimo?

    Yeah, well, Placidia pitted that civil war, not Aetius so it's not really his fault he fatally wounded bonifacius (no accounts of whether it was aetius himself that inflictd the wound or whether it was a random soldier)
    my point is that he really isn't a backstabber, if he was he would have killed ricimer instead of simply firing him...
    Last edited by Magister Militum Flavius Aetius; August 21, 2010 at 04:04 PM.

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    Default Re: Flavius Aetius - Last of the Romans? Or Backstabbing Generalissimo?

    updated first post

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    Default Re: Flavius Aetius - Last of the Romans? Or Backstabbing Generalissimo?

    I'd like to point out that to be a Generalissimo at all in the Western Roman Empire, one had to be a backstabbing prick to some degree. I think it's much more important to concentrate on the sheer, blunt fact that Aetius saved the West from the horrors of a truly barbarian reign of terror.

    Chalons erases a good deal of sins, I think.

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    Default Re: Flavius Aetius - Last of the Romans? Or Backstabbing Generalissimo?

    Being a "backstabbing generalissimo" is very roman.


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    Default Re: Flavius Aetius - Last of the Romans? Or Backstabbing Generalissimo?

    Yes, well chalons was pretty epic, but not necessarily the greatest battle of all time. Aetius did blackmail a lot though

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    Default Re: Flavius Aetius - Last of the Romans? Or Backstabbing Generalissimo?

    I have ever compared him to Wallenstein.

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    Default Re: Flavius Aetius - Last of the Romans? Or Backstabbing Generalissimo?

    Wallenstein?

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    Gäiten's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Flavius Aetius - Last of the Romans? Or Backstabbing Generalissimo?


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    Default Re: Flavius Aetius - Last of the Romans? Or Backstabbing Generalissimo?

    Quote Originally Posted by HansDuet View Post
    Being a "backstabbing generalissimo" is very roman.
    This.


    Also a couple of thoughts. Aetius' self-serving machinations against Boniface initiated the chain of events that led to the collapse of Roman Africa [Procopius, On wars, III.9-33]. Thus wheatever stabilisation he may have accomplished in Gaul is outweighed by the disaster he caused, since Africa's grain supplies and secure tax base were much more vital to the survival of the state. And what did he really manage to accomplish in Gaul? Subjugate the weak Burgundians, while the Franks and the Visigoths were strengthening their positions and Spain had been completely left to its devices.
    Chalon may have been pretty epic, but he chose not to desicively defeat the Huns and Rome paid the price with the destructive invasion of northern Italy the next year. And another thing to add that the Huns were effectively withdrawing after having ravaged central Gaul by the time Aetius intercepted them, so his victory did not really culminate in any strategic advantages whatsoever. I suppose he deserves a honorary mention as a tactician, given that the Eastern Roman armies had been defeated by the Huns in three out of three battles in the 440s, but what should not be overlooked that the victory came at the cost of much Alan sacrifice in the center and especially the Visigothic efforts in the right. The Romans under his command do not appear to have exercised significant influence over the course of the battle.

    In my opinion, the last of the Romans is a title more appropriately applied to Belisarius. Brought the Persians to a standstill, squeezed the Nika riots, reconquered Africa and easily destroyed the Roman rebels securing Solomon governorship, conquered Italy that would be lost in his absence, came out of retirement to save the capital from the Cotrigur Huns. All these with limited means at his disposal, regularly raising and training troops at his own efforts and expenses, and all this despite facing the machinations of jealous officers, an ungrateful emperor and a treacherous court of eunuchs. He was a charismatic personality, a stout patriot, a moral compass, a brave soldier and a great general. He was the Scipio of his age and his accomplishments put those of any other commander of the late empire to shame.
    Last edited by Timoleon of Korinthos; August 24, 2010 at 01:10 PM.
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    Gäiten's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Flavius Aetius - Last of the Romans? Or Backstabbing Generalissimo?

    In my opinion, the last of the Romans is a title more appropriately applied to Belisarius.
    But did he believe in the concept of Imperial Rome? IMHO he was a Byzantine, more believing in the principles of Byzanz.

    IMHO the last of the Romans was Stilicho, that great Vandal generalissimo.

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    Last Roman's Avatar ron :wub:in swanson
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    Default Re: Flavius Aetius - Last of the Romans? Or Backstabbing Generalissimo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magister Militum FlaviusAetius
    Each side averaged an estimated 70000 troops
    an overestimation. Each side had about 30,000 troops.
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    Default Re: Flavius Aetius - Last of the Romans? Or Backstabbing Generalissimo?

    Aetius could do nothing about the loss of africa, there were other matters that had to be attended to, such as the ongoing visigothic war. In 440 the east was providing a massive fleet for aetius, who was about to attack the vandals, but they had to recall it because of attila.
    @ last roman
    That is not an overestimation. Most modern scholars believe that (after subtracting the loss of africa from the equation) Aetius could have fielded an army of 50000 including limitanei, and the visigoths and franks could match it. In barbarian cultures every alble man was a warrior, and therforew attila could have fielded about the same, as his empire stretched from the caspian to the atlantic.
    @gaiten
    the last of the romans was a term applied to many people, most notably stilicho, aetius, and bonifacius. It was also applied to constantine, romulus augustulus, justinian I, belisarius, narses, and theodoric I

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    Default Re: Flavius Aetius - Last of the Romans? Or Backstabbing Generalissimo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gäiten View Post
    But did he believe in the concept of Imperial Rome? IMHO he was a Byzantine, more believing in the principles of Byzanz.
    Principles of Byzanz? In the 6th Century? What would these be, exactly? The Empire of Justinian was still very much Roman.
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    Offensive Bias's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Flavius Aetius - Last of the Romans? Or Backstabbing Generalissimo?

    I can honestly say, I never heard of Flavius Aetius before now. Sounds like an interesting character, but killed off by the lethal world of Roman Politics.

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    Default Re: Flavius Aetius - Last of the Romans? Or Backstabbing Generalissimo?

    Many people have never evenheard of Attila the Hun. In school they teach you adrianople and skip everything till romulus augustulus, and then teach you a 5 min lesson on the byzantines

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    Offensive Bias's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Flavius Aetius - Last of the Romans? Or Backstabbing Generalissimo?

    Over here, my school skipped COMPLETELY! All Medieval history, briefly glanced over the Romans, the Greeks and the Egyptians, and focused on Nazi Germany and medical history.

    It's a good thing I took History education into my own hands and taught myself a lot about history ^.^ Although, I am lacking in Medieval history, sadly

    Out of interest, is there any record of what Pope Leo said to Atilla the Hun? Because the Pope talked to him, and then he left.

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    Default Re: Flavius Aetius - Last of the Romans? Or Backstabbing Generalissimo?

    NOne. It was written in the late 8th century which mean its probably all fake (like half of the stuff the catholics say) If anything he used the church treasury to bribe attila and the constant Pestilence and Aetius' 10000 roman in the italian and illyrian field armies were backing up the pope

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    Offensive Bias's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Flavius Aetius - Last of the Romans? Or Backstabbing Generalissimo?

    Hmm, I'd have thought he had enough Roman gold from the Eastern Romans buying him off.

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