RS II: Questions, Suggestions & Discussion

[RodriguesSting]

Could someone kindly link me to a macedonian guide/aar or, at least, a good phalanx combat guide? Just realized I suck at it.

Edit: I think it would be better if I just explained the problem, and maybe, you could help me.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I created an macedonian army, using an phalanx model I found in Wikipedia. Following that, I arrived to the conclusion that I needed:
5 phalangites (katoikoi on this case)
5 long range skirmishers (used slingers)
2 fast moving skirmishers (thracians)
2 light cavalry (tarentine)
2 heavy cavalry (one being general's, the other was a lonchophoroi)
4 light infantry (in this case, thureophoroi)

With that army, arranged in a formation pretty similar to the one you can see on the image, I fought an stack and a half of athenian hopilites, some light infantry, a bunch of archers and an general. And, oh boy, I've lost and badly.

I've grouped my phalangites in a line, relatively close of each other, in groups of 6 ranks to make sure that every single sarissa would be used in the battle against the many armored oponents. My slingers would soft them before retreating behind the spear wall. The slinger part worked pretty well, but when the hopilites arrived, well... even being stopped by the pikes, in a loose formation, soldiers from the same unit were able to attack my phalangites from the flanks. I didn't even moved them, but, apparently, a straight line wasn't the smartest choice. Tried to help them with the thureophoroi, but everything was lost to that point.

So, was a strategical (unit selection and army composition) or a tactical (positioning in the battle field)? Because the computer WON that battle latter with a Clear Victory.

[Sertorio]

I don't see a problem with your army although i would increase the phalangites and reduce the skirmishers. I think the problem is the ranks. 6 is too thin for a phalangite formation, use the standard file they are deployed, and the light infantry to protect the flanks of the formation. You can also increase you Heavy cav because they are the hammer. Your phalanx pins the enemy infantry, then your cav circles and engages the flanks or back. You can also play on Alex.exe i read it's slightly better for phalangites. Try that and see how it goes. Also in the first clash, if your army does not have either experience or armor bonus, you can expect some casualties. I will get better as the army gets some veteranship.

[RodriguesSting]

Well... the problem, you see, is that, even I having Alexander (didn't impressed me not even one bit), the folder where I've installed Roma Surrectum 2 is only Barbarian Invasion. I would have to install EVERYTHING again to play it? It's really worth of it?

Edit: Also, can 6 really be so thin? Come on... the 6th sepear line is already pointed at 45º degrees, everything after that is pointed up. These spears are not being used. Also, is easier to hold up with a thinner but longer formation, isn't?

[Taelok]

I wonder if anyone could help me with some economic woes: I'm playing as Rome, H campaign, and I'm having trouble raising cash. Without any legions in the field, I have about 50k a turn coming in. However, if I raise 2 legions this drops to around 20k, which means taking on any of my powerful neighbours is going to be very tough indeed.

I currently control Italy, Sicily, North Africa and all of Iberia. I'm building docks, roads, markets, and infrastructure everywhere I can.

Thoughts?

[RodriguesSting]

Well, don't own more than you can protect!

Try reducing your garrisons to, at max, 4 troops in Iberia and Italy. Put a legion at the hearth of Italy and one in the northern frontier of Iberia. If it shows necessary, garrison Carthage with an entire legion. Hopefully that will reduce your military income enough for you to make some investiments. Also, put your generals that are most well versed in managment in your most important cities, and they will improve your income there.

Still, your case is strange... I've had 4 entire legions in field when I've toke Carthage and my income was around 40k per turn. Maybe you didn't invested enough in your infraestructure, or didn't got enough trade agreements (Romans benefits a lot from those. 10k from my income was only from trade).

[Sertorio]

Well... the problem, you see, is that, even I having Alexander (didn't impressed me not even one bit), the folder where I've installed Roma Surrectum 2 is only Barbarian Invasion. I would have to install EVERYTHING again to play it? It's really worth of it?

Edit: Also, can 6 really be so thin? Come on... the 6th sepear line is already pointed at 45º degrees, everything after that is pointed up. These spears are not being used. Also, is easier to hold up with a thinner but longer formation, isn't?

Well just try it for size then you will be able to make a more informed opinion, about Alexander all you need is to put the Exe. in the RS2 folder.

[RodriguesSting]

Your answer came a little... too late. But thanks anyways.

[Taelok]

Still, your case is strange... I've had 4 entire legions in field when I've toke Carthage and my income was around 40k per turn. Maybe you didn't invested enough in your infraestructure, or didn't got enough trade agreements (Romans benefits a lot from those. 10k from my income was only from trade).

Strange indeed; are you running the standard EDU? or any submods at all? I'll have another look at my campaign soon.

[RodriguesSting]

No, totally standard (even tough my unit size is normal, because my computer is a glorified calculator). Maybe you rushed to build up armies to take the fight to Carthage. Maybe you tried to invest equally trough all your provinces, when you should focus big income centers or strategic provinces. Would be awesome if you take a print of your financial record and posted here. Would be a lot easier for all of us to help you.

[Taelok]

No, totally standard (even tough my unit size is normal, because my computer is a glorified calculator). Maybe you rushed to build up armies to take the fight to Carthage. Maybe you tried to invest equally trough all your provinces, when you should focus big income centers or strategic provinces. Would be awesome if you take a print of your financial record and posted here. Would be a lot easier for all of us to help you.

Thanks for your help RodriguesSting. Managed to get my economy back on track.

For anyone that's curious, to get my economy working again, I focused my attention on building mines, trade boosting buildings and infrastructure. I also disbanded as many troops as population order would allow. Most importantly, though, was the building of the economic city focus building in whichever city would allow it, discounting key military cities of course.

[RodriguesSting]

Would be nice, though, if you tell us how you did this. Just for record.

Edit: The way you wrote made me think that following that path led you to that crisis. But now it makes sense. Anyways, sorry for the unnecessary post.

[Taelok]

Would be nice, though, if you tell us how you did this. Just for record.

Check my post again, I've listed the structures I prioritized. That should help anyone else with the same issue. For what it's worth, most of the information was available on this forum, just had to search a wee bit.

[NekoGenijalan]

Getting economy is the most important thing in every TW game. I usually:

1. Disband high upkeep units
2. Set taxes to very high
3. Build money making buildings
4. Sack or exterminate nearby settlements

After this you have to keep an eye on your army upkeep. If you can manage your army with weaker and cheaper units, you'll never run out of money. This means to choose your battles carefully, and use terrain to your advantage.

My two cents about the topic.

[RodriguesSting]

It may work well on Vanilla or most of the mods, Neko, but here, it would be extremely hard for your armies to suck all of your income, as commonly happened. Damn, I've got two full stacks of Silver Shield with Armenia and was still receiving some thousands. But still, if you create 3 or 4 armies of levy pike-man you are pretty much screwed. The thing is... I am sleepy as a hell... and most elite troops are usually only two times more expensive than regulars. This would mean a lot in Vannilla, but not here. That's why I am at favor of building one or two powerful armies instead legions of light infantry. I, for myself, group up all of my initial troops, leaving behind just the necessary to garrison some cities and A) take the nearest settlement; or B) put them in a chock point to hold my initial enemy (do this all the time with Macedon).

About sacking... well... how much you gain by doing this? 9k in a medium city, or till 20k on a huge one? 20k I make in one turn and, dear god, managing carefully your money, stacking buildings and making the best of your armies will ensure that you will only have to do this to put the population on its place. I never run out of money, neither a single one of my Pegamon generals (playing with them to train in the use of phalanx combat without the pressure you would have playing as Macedon) gained bad traits because of the 50k in treasure.

[Ferdiad]

Getting economy is the most important thing in every TW game. I usually:

1. Disband high upkeep units
2. Set taxes to very high
3. Build money making buildings
4. Sack or exterminate nearby settlements

After this you have to keep an eye on your army upkeep. If you can manage your army with weaker and cheaper units, you'll never run out of money. This means to choose your battles carefully, and use terrain to your advantage.

My two cents about the topic.

To put it as blunt as I can, this is wrong.

[NekoGenijalan]

This is what I wrote for the very beginning of playing. Maybe first ten or fifteen turns. It gives you nice boost on the start. And I meant this in general.

After that change of strategies is required of course.

[Drowsy]

Started a new test campaign on 1-turn yesterday. The gods truly had forsaken the republic as i fell back to Rome to re-arm my cohorts a storm broke out decimating the consular legion and severely damaging Roma. Among other buildings the Curia Hostilia was damaged but my attempts at repairing it has proven futile. Even after the reforms of Marius it remains damaged. The only thing i haven't tried is building a Fortress in Roma, which would normally unlock the Curia Hostilia. Could this be it? Tried some console commands as well, to no avail.

[RodriguesSting]

We-hell... the entire consular army in the Poseidon's Locker? In the 1 turn campaign? I believe that it will take a lot of time to train these guys in the 1-turn. Anyways, I think that they worked less on the 1-turn, since the 0-turn is the focus of the mod. Probably a bug.

[Drowsy]

It wasn't so bad, it just made it very hard and i ended up loosing a city to Hannibal. As long as a cohort is not completely destroyed it can be retrained in a single turn even in a 1-turn campaign, though at considerable expense. +/- 50 years later we had our revenge during the invasion of Africa during which we enslaved the inhabitants of Carthago

[ur-Lord Tedric]

Started a new test campaign on 1-turn yesterday. .....................

I............ +/- 50 years later we had our revenge during the invasion of Africa during which we enslaved the inhabitants of Carthago

Hang on one second - you started a "test" campaign yesterday - and you've completed ~100 turns already?

I take it you're not fighting any battles? What is it you're testing?