RS II: Questions, Suggestions & Discussion

[johnnieangel]

Question for the powers that be....Sorry if I missed a post answering this earlier. playing RS2 and started Marian reforms. I assume game rules are the same as RS1 for legion recruitment and cohorts . Can you recruit a legion in each city they appear in or once only? AOR changed quite a bit from RS1.

[apple]

Only once.

[IamSp00ky]

First time player here -

When I hit Marion Reforms I see Legionary units and Legionary 1st Cohort recruitable in several cities. But these do not have Legion names, are these the so-called Legions? Their unit card appears identical to those legionarys in all other cities.

How do I recruit the named and numbered legions?

[ImperatorCaesar]

You will need to build the Roman Fortress to access the named and numbered legions. Those first legions represent the first legions after the Marian Reforms whose names/numbers are not known but served as the transition from the old Polybian style legions.

[pilleman182]

continuous question to this: i think it would be nice to maybe publish some all buildings including building-tree since you cant see half of the build-able buildings in the settlement's building browser nor on the settlement itself and i would really like to see all the relations betweeen them


second: there is lots of "hidden" effects on the buildings i've just noticed by capturing some barbarians cities as the romans ( same for the greek cities) . e.g. if u destroy their "army base"+upgrades you will get a minor plus percentage to the cities' law n stuff. dunno, says it for some buildings in the description once you conquer a region but not for all. would be nice if you could add it!

[johnnieangel]

building built by "barbarians" in this case lend to the cultural differences which you can see by the black and white faces depicting potential unrest on the happiness graph for each town, if Im not mistaken....

@ Apple- I like the change that legions can retrain near their (sometimes multiple)historical areas of operation compared with RS1. makes for a realisitic distance likely covered by the legions to resupply and replenish. Love this mod!!
Slainte'

[fingon]

If you actually read the line 214 of the aforementioned document, it said that the next time they would need to be yellow with green squares and pink dots.
No, just kidding, we don't, that's why some are red and others white.

More seriously, tone created most of these units, but he has (mostly) quit modding, so he won't create new one.
Let's hope you manage to do it yourself. If you do, I want some picture.

What about this? A 1 minute job in Gimp. I actually only copied the color from Legio I. Germanica, because I really liked it, but I can dye it to whatever of course. Its not maybe the best legion (and not best environement - winter) to try on - I would make the II. and IX. Hamata (same helmets as X. which looks awesome) instead of this one.. But its definetely possible.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

To try it:

1) Make a backup of RTW - Roma Surrectum/data/models_unit/textures/tone/romans/legio_iii_augusta.tga.dds
2) And then overwrite it with this model



Anyway, I ll try it on other Hamata and Segmentata legions and see what looks better and what not.

[fingon]

And I just made Legio IX. Hispaniensis too.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Just try it and ur see what u like more..

[Caesar's Heir]

What color are they originally? I never really noticed any difference. Maybe I'm colorblind.

[Zing]

Several questions/suggestions.

In Dacia, we have dismounted dacian archers. But there are no mounted dacian archers, so the player has to use scythians. WAD?

According to description, by the game time Dacians almost universally prayed to Zalmoxis, and were disregarding other, older gods, yet Dacian player can build all temples. Shouldnt Dacians be restricted to Zalmoxism, make it the only kind of temple available for construction?

Javelin cavalry is not very useful as it is now. They exhaust their missiles very quickly, and have almost no use after that, except for following routed enemy. Would it be better to give them more ammunition?

Also, I think it would be interesting to change the recruitment time for soldiers. Levy troops (clubman, light spears, light skirmishers) can have 0 turn recruitment, so you can quickly assemble a rag-tag emergency army. For more competent army (hopplites, heavy swordmen/spearmen, archers), you have to spend 1 turn to recruit them. The elite and rare troops (falxmen, etc) might take even 2-turn recruitment. The only problem I see might be an issue with AI hiring bunch of clubmen all the time.

[fingon]

What color are they originally? I never really noticed any difference. Maybe I'm colorblind.

White. Look at those legions in game or in RS download thread/Roman Legions.

[tone]

And I have a proposition for graphic enhancement in the patch 2.2 if possible.

Do you realised, that roman legions with RED tunic actually looks BETTER and more like true legions, than the ones with white tunic (majority unfortunately). Also on vast majority of paintings you see roman legions with red tunic only. I wonder what brought the artist to the white tunic idea. Anyway, the shields, helmets are awesome, just the color of the tunic is wrong in my opinion and decrease the whole impression of the unit. Just look at the Legio X Gemina or Legio IIII Scythica how awesome they look with the red tunic and (brighter) red shield. So this is just a proposition, the artist who made the legions can try the versions with red tunic and decide himself if he likes it better or not. Of course there is no need to do the red tunic to every legion, but just try it, if the legion looks better with it or not.

There's pretty good evidence for different colors being used, particularly white, which is why if you look at any art that's done by people that know what they're doing, you'll see white used frequently.

[Sandrus Castus]

If you want a read on tunic colours: Grahamn Sumner, Roman Military Dress.

[fingon]

There's pretty good evidence for different colors being used, particularly white, which is why if you look at any art that's done by people that know what they're doing, you'll see white used frequently.

I am not saying the red was used exclusivelly.. Even you have done the legions from Arretium with red tunic (Legio I. X. XIII. / XIV). All I am saying is that I can make a red tunic to some legions I found better looking with the red tunic without being historically wrong, because noone knows exactly what legions used only red or white or other color tunic. Or do you have any source proving the color for each one of them? If they used different shields, why not different tunics. Anyway, I ll do some research on this.

[tone]

Well your post said "more like true legions" which is misleading and not historically accurate...maybe more like what our stereotyped thinking says?

[fingon]

Well your post said "more like true legions" which is misleading and not historically accurate...maybe more like what our stereotyped thinking says?

Of course "more like true legions" = "more like legions we know from paitings" for example - a propos, even pretty old one. Thats what I meant with this post of course. But if you do not know sure they were not red, you cannot say its not historically accurate, can you? Well, Graham Sumner in his Roman Military Clothing Part I wrote, that legionary had at least 2 tunics. One that he wore under his armor (red one) and the off-white (from undyed wool) for all other occasions (for example wandering thru miliatary camp). And contrary to this Centurions wore white (not off-white) tunics with narrow (equestrian) or wide (senatorial) stripe - it depended on their social status. Of course its only one source (even though pretty sourced itself). I wonder, what makes you so sure, that nation, that used (water) clocks (from Greeks), built wonderful buildings from a high-end concrete, had such a thought-out military and invented soo many great things, that were rediscovered in Renessaince or later would wear undyed off-white tunic (on a quite expensive armour) to such an important events, which wars surely were.. Even the "barbarians" dyed their own dresses. Why roman military shouldn´t. Well, its ur opinion.
A propos, not all stereotypes must be founded on untrue informations.

[Grimbold]

Is there a thread where i can read about golden armor upgrades?

I know that with Rome if you build a vulcan temple (pantheon lvl i think) you can get golden shields.

But can other factions obtain this aswell? I thought i'd build a temple to Hephaestus (spelling) since he was the greek god of crafts and such stuff, but there's nothing in the building description that indicates obtaining that upgrade.

And if its possible, does it depend on the city, as in, does it have to be a specific city in order to get it?

[REDrake]

I am somewhat concerned about the lack of barbarian units that can charge without order. In that regard I believe RS2 portrays a barbarian army dominated by much more order than it was historically.
Another question regards the city of Nicopolis. It starts as a Greek city state, but placed in the middle of the Balkans. I have trouble finding any such city in the Ancient Age. There was a Nicopolis city, however it was founded by emperor Trajan in the 2nd century AD.

[tone]

Of course "more like true legions" = "more like legions we know from paitings" for example - a propos, even pretty old one. Thats what I meant with this post of course. But if you do not know sure they were not red, you cannot say its not historically accurate, can you? Well, Graham Sumner in his Roman Military Clothing Part I wrote, that legionary had at least 2 tunics. One that he wore under his armor (red one) and the off-white (from undyed wool) for all other occasions (for example wandering thru miliatary camp). And contrary to this Centurions wore white (not off-white) tunics with narrow (equestrian) or wide (senatorial) stripe - it depended on their social status. Of course its only one source (even though pretty sourced itself). I wonder, what makes you so sure, that nation, that used (water) clocks (from Greeks), built wonderful buildings from a high-end concrete, had such a thought-out military and invented soo many great things, that were rediscovered in Renessaince or later would wear undyed off-white tunic (on a quite expensive armour) to such an important events, which wars surely were.. Even the "barbarians" dyed their own dresses. Why roman military shouldn´t. Well, its ur opinion.
A propos, not all stereotypes must be founded on untrue informations.

My objection is not to red tunics....as you see there are a number of legions with these. My objection is to you making a blanket and categorical statement about something even the experts debate about. How about just saying that you prefer the red color and prefer the evidence that points towards the use of red tunics? Let's just leave it there shall we?

[fingon]

My objection is not to red tunics....as you see there are a number of legions with these. My objection is to you making a blanket and categorical statement about something even the experts debate about. How about just saying that you prefer the red color and prefer the evidence that points towards the use of red tunics? Let's just leave it there shall we?

Interesting.. I knew you havent read my previous posts at all! The problem here is ur neverending objection to something I never said!

Can you say WHERE I made "blanket and categorical statement" that the red tunic is the only one possible? Thats just a pure lie you have just made up. I said the EXACT OPPOSITE. If only you were reading my previous posts, this debate would never start.. Pity. And yes, I deemed this debate pointless right from the start, not knowing why are u constantly arguing about this.

1) I said I like the red tunic better on SOME of the legions in the game. On some I like the off-white tunic.
2) I said noone really knows what color was really used, so if both colors will be used on some legions, the chance of having that wrong is the same.
3) I said that possibly both existed and according to Graham Sumner the red one was used in fight ( but that was the last post). And I added, that its not sure at all. I just wanted to make a contra argument to you stating the red one is just an (unhistorical) stereotype.
4) I reacted on Paedric, when he said that the white color is used in this mod because of some order from Alexandria, that this is not an entire proof, that the white one should be used on majority of legions..
5) I never made a blanket and categorical statement. This you have just made up.. On the other hand you were saying something like red tunic is an (unhistorical) stereotype.

And yes, we can leave it like this. I like some legions with red tunic better. I will make the change myself. And I don´t really think, that this change is unhistorical, because easily the off-white tunic can be unhistorical too. You never realised that. Ok "debate" over. Bye.