Hero Renders

[Zenith Darksea]

Oh, Apostate, you raise so many good points. I'll try to answer each one.

"i ll definitely download TTW"
Good to hear it!

"Achilleus,i cant stand that face of the holywood actress"
Well, it's a matter of taste really. Many people do like it, many people don't. I'll put it this way - you can have fun taking Hector and killing Brad Pitt!

"also where are his legendary weaponry?"
Good question. I would answer that since Achilles only obtains it in book 18 of the Iliad, and this mod starts before the beginning of the Trojan War, it wouldn't be appropriate to give him his fancy armourl.

"so remember Achilleus is very prone to his legendary "menis" (if u have read Ilias u will understand) and dont make him furious again!"
I've read the Iliad in Greek actually. You must feel strongly about this! I personally would prefer it if Achilles went without a helmet, but really, Brad Pitt isn't THAT bad. It's just a matter of opinion.

"but i m rather confused by the term "Minoan"....
maybe Cretan would be better"
This was very difficult. In the end, I decided that 'Cretan' was not better. The thing is that this is not purely a historical mod - it is primarily mythological. The Trojan War happened in approx. 1270 BC, but what we call the 'Minoan' civilisation ended approx. 1450 BC. Yet King Minos was the grandfather of Idomeneos, who fought in the Trojan War! The problem here is that ancient mythology has no idea of accurate chronology. What we've done is to merge history and myth as far as possible, though when we get a conflict we go with myth. So we've blended the mythological Minoans with the historical Minoans and set them both at the time of the Trojan war. To say 'Cretan' would be to discount the fact that Idomeneos is Minos' grandson, which just wouldn't be right.

"dorians (probable an anachronism)"
It's a huge anachronism!

If you can reconcile history and myth, then you have superhuman powers of mind! However, we felt that myth takes precedence.

[apostate]

given that there are many historical mods around i agree that this should walk between myth and history (lead to myth) so it will be the most attractive and interesting and unique....i didnt like the movie because it tried to make myth as history

just i cant understand the need of implementing softy pit in the mod
he is neither mythology nor history.....
the only good that offers is to satisfy possible fans of the movie (its hard to believe there are any if they have read Iliad!)

-k for Hephaistos giving him new armour late and k for not sticking to Iliad itself but i d expect Achilleus with somehow better looking arms

-as i said Idomeneus has Minos himself as forefather but to name him Minoan sounds rather awkard to me....
anyway i have not followed the progress of that mod and the factions setup

[Osceola]

Finally, on the subject of the Latins, I'm afraid that the mod does not expand so far. Perhaps later, if Troy is a success, we could move on to Aeneas' conquest of Italy (it's not a bad idea, actually!) as a follow up, but for now it's outside of our scope. We wanted to make the mod purely Mycenaean and Trojan in character. Besides, Troy might not fall, and it might end up being Agammemnon and Menelaos who have to flee! I have to say, I much prefer the Aeneid to the Iliad, but for now it's just too much.

Ah thank you for that info on the Dorians. Since these are such an odd people and didnt write nothing down, just what in the hell did you use for inspiration on thier units/style of warfare? You people never cease to amaze me lol..

Also I was just looking at the "Aleysha" faction, I'm very confused! Is this an Egyptian type culture or what?

Also have you guys read Stephen Pressfield's Last of the Amazons? I feel it provided a very possible accurate portrayal of Amazons! It's set during the time of Thesseus, a purely realistic novel, they also mentioned other peoples of the time including some sort of people that started with an S, I looked them up and it said they were thought to be from Finland, and the Greeks claimed that they practiced cannibalism during war. It also mentioned Scythian warriors, and many others. Have you guys taken anything from this excellent novel? And if you've read it, did these Finnish cannibals that start with an S that I believe Heroduts mentiones, make it into the mod? It said the Greeks very much feared them, and n the book the Amazons used em as mercs, so those dudes would make awesome merc units for the Amazons.

And no doubt this mod will be a success, and I think Birth of Roma sequel would be awesome!

[Zhuge_Liang]

Most concepts had to come from my brain! I made 90% of the units in the mod and after that many my creativity was failing me, so go easy on them when you see them

I hope you like all the units we have done, but i'm affraid all that will feature in the mod will belong to the factions listed + the sea people who aren't listed because they aren't a proper faction (rebel raiders - destroyed the hittites and caused the egyptians much strife) - but they will only have 3 units.

[Osceola]

Oh I know it's hard, there are just resources I was suggesting/hoping you used.

And I was pretty sure the Sea Peoples were the same thing as the Minoans?

[Zenith Darksea]

Again, many questions to answer. Firstly, no, the Sea People were not the Minoans. To be honest, we don't know who they are.

Aleshya is portrayed as an Egyptian culture here. Cyprus was very much under the Pharoah's influence, and our only concrete written evidence of them (of any huge significance, that is) is in Egyptian. We don't know what language they did speak, but we can be pretty sure that they were very similar to the Egyptians at least.

I'm afraid that I haven't read that book, though I'll be sure to do so when I get the time. For sources we used Lysias, the Aeneid, Herodotus, the Metamorphoses and various other works on Greek mythology. As for the mercenaries, I assume that you mean the Scythians? Certainly the Amazons were supposed to have warred with them. However, I don't think that we do have any Scythians in the mod. The Amazons themselves are only in because they supplement the Trojans and are a pretty interesting faction.

[Zhuge_Liang]

Steven Pressfield's books are very good, they are historical fiction and based on actual events (certainly in the case of the thermopolae one and 'the tides of war'). I've not read the amazon one. 'Tides of War' was amazing though.

There is much else that could be included from the era. But it is similar to the rome mods like RTR. There is just as much great history happening in China at the same time as these mods, but this isn't included (and even India isn't included iin great depth in RTR). It is similar for us with the Italian and northern factions. They sound really interesting, but are worlds apart from the focus of the mod.

Who knows what might be included if the mod is popular enough to generate an expansion set just after the dorian invasion. :wink:

[LordSaradain]

What about Ajax?

[Zhuge_Liang]

What about ajax (aias)?

[Zenith Darksea]

He's one of the heroes above (Telemonian Aias, or 'Ajax' as the Latins spell his name).

[Osceola]

Awesome!

Well umm.. maybe you might want to throw in some Scyth merc units for the Amazons though? That sounds pretty logical..

Also I believe the name for those Finnish cannibals they described was 'Saami"? I might be wrong, but the Greeks very much feared and detested them, and the Amazons hired them as mercs.

Also Aleysha sounds like an awesome faction! I know I'll play as them for sure..

I got questions on the Thracians, how "savage" or "barbarous" or "monstrous" have they been portrayed? I mean they were obviously bad enough to scare the living **** outta the Greeks..

[Zenith Darksea]

They're pretty barbaric, but we've been careful not to make them just like cartoonish Asterix characters (as in RTW). They are pretty scary, yes. As for the 'Saami', I can't say that I've heard of them (sounds like a Finnish word to me though; Sir Jodi would know about this), but I'll have another look through Herodotus to see if he mentions them. Yes, Aleshya will be quite fun.

[Zhuge_Liang]

I have added an Aleysha render to the unit renders topic

[Zhuge_Liang]

Also, once we have the total no. of models back if there is any space left over i will see about making this northern unit, i'm sure sir jodi would approve and it sounds cool, i wouldn't mind making it either.

[Osceola]

Ah m8s! I found who I was talking about! It still supposes they were Finns, but they arent called the Saami, mustve been thinking of something else.

They are the infamous Androphagi. Which in Greek means, "maneaters." In Last of the Amazons, they serve the Amazons as mercs when they invade Greece, (which apparently really did happen) partly because they terrify the Greeks so much. Heres a wiki on them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androphagi

Herodotus calls them the "more savage than any other race of men", hell they could have been the 1250 B.C. version of the "Wendol" in that case, lol.

If anyone has the book written by Herodotus, look em' up thier in there.

So thats the Androphagi. A people even the Scyths even appear to have left alone. An entire nation of cannibals, and I dont think it's to improbable, considering ther in a remote part of the world, and our good friends the Scyths arent famous for spreading the seeds of civilization now are they? Plus these were the "most savage race of men" and looking at who all the Greeks didnt like.. those fools mustve been pretty bad.

Sounds like an awesome Amazon or Thracian merc unit. Androphagi Maneaters perhaps?

[Zenith Darksea]

Not a bad idea.

[Zhuge_Liang]

Yes, i am getting excited about this potential unit now, if there is a general agreement about including it i will make it tomorrow or later today.

How do you think it shoud look? I'm thinking animal furs and a crazy club/sword with little/no armour but amazing stats - like berserkers. Let me know what you think. The first 'unit of the people' ... a cannibal... says a lot about the 'people' lol

[Osceola]

I was thinking a club too.

Primitive animal furs/skins. Extremely shaggy long unkempt hair, maybe a shagy unkempt beard or facial hair of some sort. Give em berserk ability, no armour. Also I was thinking tie some "trophies" around tiher waist. Maybe scalps (Scyths were notorious for it) or human bones. Maybe a skull at his waist too. Especially since Scyths and other peoples of this area would take skulls as trophies, and use them as drinking cups. I'm seeing him with dark hair btw..

[Zenith Darksea]

Yes, 'Androphagoi' will be an excellent addition. Shaggy hair and beard, animal skins, skulls dangling from his belt, a tunic made out of human scalps, maybe a ragged cloak around his shoulders and perhaps a single-headed axe? Maybe some javelins as well? But no armour, and no shield. You could give him a wolf skin on his head, like the velites have in RTW (except better, obviously).

[Zhuge_Liang]

I'm not sure about the wolf hat thingy, but i'll put something together.