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Thread: WO1 rifles

  1. #1
    Falconpilot's Avatar Join Arma3 campaign!
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    Default WO1 rifles

    Hi,

    i found this great website today where they had all rifles and helmets of the major countries in world war 1 lined up, hope you guys can use this

    Allies-
    Serbia/Russia/Montenegro:

    (NOTE: The two Mosin-Nagant rifles are the same length. The apparent difference is an optical illusion caused by the angle of the photograph.)
    From the top:
    -M1910 Mauser, Mauser Oberndorf, Germany 1910-1912, cal. 7x57. Commercially marked model 1910 with Serbian proofs. In very rough shape, but I have searched long & hard for any Serbian WWI configuration rifle.
    -M-1891 Mosin-Nagant, 1917 Tula Peter the Great marked, mismatched but markings intact, no importer marks or importer serial #. No evident Balkan or Finn markings.
    -Remington bayonet for same.
    -M1907 Mosin-Nagant cavalry carbine, Izhevsk 1912. Stock well sanded & with inappropriate sling, but all matching.
    -M1895 Winchester, Russian contract. Not Spanish marked, came to me with two rounds of Finnish 7.62x54R in the butt trap, not that that signifies, but it was a nice surprise.
    -M1891 M-N, Tula 1899, Balkan import, Romanov birds more or less intact. Has the eagle over HI mark on the left side of chamber & receiver. Was sold to me as a Montenegrin rifle. Marks had fresh looking white goo in them when the rifle arrived. Goo obscured the markings, so was removed, revealing equally fresh looking marks stamped in the metal. Doesn't really resemble the pictures of JPS's I've seen, either. Long description, but that's to say that I have my doubts, but it's my Montenegrin until something better comes along.
    -M1895 Nagant revolver, 1913. Arsenal marks removed, but still has the old front sight.
    -M1911 Colt, caL. .45acp, commercial pistol with English Contract mark in Cyrillic on left side of frame, refinished.
    -Serbian Adrian helmet, fairly rare, made in France.
    -Sohlberg helmet, Finnish made, intended for the Russians, mostly used by the Finns.
    -Russian Adrian helmet, like the Serbian helmet , made in France.

    France:

    -Mle1886 M.93 'Lebel', cal. 8x50R, MAC 1889. World's first smokeless powder military rifle. Above it is the early version of the Mle1886 bayonet 'Rosalie', with German silver hilt and quillion, below is the later version, with brass hilt & no quillion.
    -Mle 1907/15 'Berthier', cal. 8x50R, Delaunay Bellville, 1917. 3 shot rifle. Delaunay Balleville was a well known automobile manufacturer in France at the time.
    -Mle1890, MAC 1890. This was the first weapon of the 'Berthier' type. The 1890 cavalry carbine came in two styles (maybe more, ask those who know on the French forum to be sure), the other version had a different type of stock for the Cuirassiers. As a cavalry carbine it takes no bayonet.
    -Mle1892, MAS 1892. This modification of the Mle1890 to take a bayonet was for artilleryman, fortress troops, and anyone else who needed a rifle but not an infantry rifle. This one escaped the modifcations made after the war to most of these, and still has provision for its cleaning rod. This celaning rod is a repro. Above is the earlier version of the Mle1892 bayonet, with a rubberized composite handle, together with its scabbard & frog, below is the later version of the bayonet with the wooden handle.
    -Mle M. 16, MAC 1918. The Berthiers were modified to take five shot clips, resulting in the extended magazine you see here. That was the modification M. 16. This rifle was assmbled at Chatellerault, but the receiver was made at the Etts. Continsouza, who were manfacturers of Motion picture cameras and equipment.
    -Mle 15 'Adrian' helmet, painted in the mustard-khaki of the French Colonial troops. The crescent badge with RF, for Republique Francais, was used by Zouave & Spahi regiments, amongst others.
    -Mle 1873 revolver, Cal. 11mm, MAS 1883. Double-action revolver, which came out in the same year as the Colt SAA. nice handling revolver.
    -somewhat squashed holster for the Mle1892 revolver.
    -Mle 1892 revolver, cal. 8mm, MAS 1896. Has a loading gate, but also a cylinder which swings out to the right, for cavalry use. This one is naval marked.
    -Mle 15 Adrian helmet. This helmet bears the standard flaming bomb with RF of the French infantry. It is painted in the slate blue-grey color that wa adopted after the initial horizon blue color turned out to be too conspicuous.

    Here are some more French rifles that didn't fit in the first photo, along with some other widgets, and since we have the room, more than the usual one or two helmets:

    -Mle1874 M. 80 M.14 'Gras'. The black powder 11mm Gras rifle was modified early in the war to accept the 8mm Lebel round as a war emergency measure. The barrel was reamed out and sleeved to 8mm, and a handguard was added. The t-backed bayonet & scabbard are for the Gras, but the bayonet is marked Steyr, 1881. I'm not sure if that is appropriate to go with a French rifle or not, maybe someone will enlighten me.
    -Fusil Automatique Mle 1917, cal. 8x50R, MAT 1917. The first semi-automatic issue infantry rifle used in combat. the Germans used both Mondragon & Mauser semi-autos in aircraft, and the French used Winchester M1907 & M1910 rifles in aircraft & the trenches, but this rifle was the first semi-auto built & issued by a military for its ground forces. utilizes a five round clip different from that of the Berthier M.16. This rifle, as with most Mle 1917s, was modified in the 1920s or 30s by having its gas system plugged, thus making it essentially into a bolt action.
    -'Petard de la Troisime armee'. improvised French grenade from early in the war. A piece of wood with a belt hook on the back. The block at the top has a nail stuck in it to act as a friction fuse. Pull the wire attached to the nail, nail rotates & grinds against the black powder starting a train, which burns down into the iron cylinder and explodes the main charge. Extra bits of iron are wired to the sides for more shrapnel.
    -Mle 1914 'bracelet' grenade. Cast iron sphere with a wooden plug fuze. The pin in the fuze would have been connected by a chain to a metal hoop worn around the wrist. When the grenade was thrown, the pin would be pulled by this chain to start the fuze. This gave some distance between the thrower & the grenade, as the fuzes had a tendency to go off prematurely.
    -Vivien-Bessier rifle grenade, without launcher, but with brass guard to protect the igniter. There are threads with better examples & excellent descriptions of how these work in the French board.
    -French P1 grenade.
    -Hotchkiss 37mm HE round, 1918. This is the type used in the infantry guns use by both the French & US troops, as well as in the Renault FT tanks when they were cannon equipped.
    More Mle 15 helmets:
    -Another infantry helmet, an early example which was originally painted horizon blue but has been overpainted in the darker color. compare with the light Horizon Blue artillery helmet below it.
    -The badge of the Engineers.
    -The badge of the Medical Corps.
    -The badge of the Chasseurs. most of the darker blue-gray has worn off this helmet, revealing the early light Horizon Blue.
    -That on the left has an artillery badge and is painted in the early, lighter horizon blue color.
    -The helmet of the Czech Legion, serving in France. I have no Czech section for WWI, so this may rest here.
    -Helmet of an Officier Medecin. Pre-war medical badge used by some officers instead of the wartime version, above.
    -Helmet of an Officier de Chasseurs. Some Chasseur Officers used the pre-war hunting horn emblem, which lacked the RF of the wartime version, above.
    -Helmet of the Colonial Infantry.

    Belgium/Luxembourg:

    M1889 Mauser, Fabrique Nationale. This particualr 1889 was captured by the Germans & rechambered to 7,9x57. The chamber has the Prussian eagle firing proof. The stock does not have the Deutches Reich marking but does still have the Belgian Guarde Civique mark.
    -M1916 Mauser carbine. Manufacture D'Armes de L'Etat. Cal. 7.65x53. The Belgians standardised on this carbine during the war. No date, so it stays in the WWI section.
    -M1900 Luxembourg Mauser, Mauser Oberndorf, 1900, cal. 6.5x55. Very few of these about, a modification of the Swedish Mauser with a shorter barrel & different front band.
    -M15 Adrian helmet, with the lion of Belgium.

    Great Britain & Commonwealth:

    -Short, Magazine Lee-Enfield, Mark I***, RSAF Enfield, Enfield Lock, England, 1911, cal. .303. Mark I series SMLE updated to *** standard between 1914-1919.
    -Short, Magazine Lee-Enfield, Mark III*, BSA, Birmingham, England, 1917, cal. .303. Sporting the No. 35 Mk.I high explosive rod rifle grenade, marked G.H. & Co. 1918.
    -SMLE Mark I**I.P. A Mk. I SMLE updated to MK III configuration at Ishapore, India. The receiver was originally made at Enifeld in 1904 and the rifle was remanufactured to this pattern in 1917. With leather sling. Pattern 1907 bayonet, by Wilikinson, 1918 above, scabbard & Pattern 1914 frog, made of boiled leather, 1915, below.
    -Pattern 14 Mark I, Eddystone, 1916?, cal. .303. This P-14 is in original condition, with volley sights, and without the Mark I * markings.
    -Ross MkIII, Ross Rifle Co., Quebec, 1914, cal. .303. This rifle is C.E.F. marked. Mk.III bayonet below. The Mk. II & Mk. III bayonet will not interchange.
    -RossMkII***, Ross Rifle Co. Quebec, 1910. Rifle is U.S. and ordnance bomb marked, and came with a Kerr No-Buckl sling attached. Mk. II bayonet scabbard & frog (also U.S. marked) below.
    -Below the scabbard is a Mk.II charger with Dominion Canada 1916 dated Mk.VII ball. The charger is also Canadian marked.
    -Along the buttplates of the rifles is a .303 cloth bandolier dated 8-18.
    -No.5 Mk.I Mills grenade, base plug dated 9/16.
    -No.27 Mk.I smoke grenade, repainted, 1917, sans rod.
    -Webley Mk.VI, Philip Webley & Sons, Birmingham, 1916, cal. .455.
    -No.34 Mk.III grenade, 1917.
    -Colt Model 1911, Colt, Hartford, CT., R.A.F. contract, after May 1918, cal. .455.
    -Mk. I 'Brodie' helmet. Sand is mixed in the paint to reduce glare.

    Italy:

    -Fucile Modello 91 Carcano, Torre Annunziata, 1898, cal. 6.5x52. With M1891 bayonet, scabbard/frog.
    -Moschetto Modello 91 per Truppi Speciali (M91TS), Brescia 1917. Made with lug for special TS bayonet (pictured).
    -M91TS, Brescia 1915. TS with standard M91 bayonet lug. This should be in the WWII section, as these were converted after 1918, but I already took the picture this way, and you can see the two configurations side by side.
    -M1870/87/15 Vetterli, Brescia 1888, cal. 6.5x52. This is another example of the country's older blackpowder weapons being rechambered for the newer smokeless round as an emergency measure early in WWI.
    -Farina helmet. These helmets, with heavy armored browplates, were made for use by assault troops. JPS talked with me about this one a few years ago, and pointed me to some people who could look at it in person. Net result is, I'm somewhat dubious about the authenticity of the brain pan part of the helmet, but am pretty happy with the armored plate, even if it is of non-standard shape.
    -Glisenti M1910, Brescia, cal. 9mm Glisenti. Beautifully made pistol, but with frame design that does not allow for a powerful cartridge. Round is dimensionally identical to a 9mm Parabellum, but only about 75% as powerful. With holster.
    -Model 1889 Bodeo, Type II, G.A. Castelli, Brescia 1917, cal. 10.35mm. Enlisted mens' version with folding trigger.
    -Beretta Model 1915, Pietro Beretta, Brescia, cal. 9mm Glisenti. Beretta's first military pistol design. Originally made in .32acp, this version is chambered in the 9mm Glisenti round. These were issued to both the army & the police. This example is police marked.
    -Italian Mo.15-16 Lippmann helmet. The Lippmann was a simplified copy of the Adrian. This helmet is fitted with a cloth cover from the 9th Infantry Regiment, with a symbol for the machine gun company on the side.

    Portugal/Greece:

    -Shell of Portuguese pattern mild steel helmet. This was patterned after early private purchase helmets used by British officers. This one doesn't have the ventilating holes in the sides, but has been ventilated by someone using it for bayonet practice at some point.
    -Espingarda Modelo 1904 'Vergueiro', DWM, Berlin, 1904-1908, cal. 6.5x58. Portuguese troops on the Western Front used British weapons, but this was the standard Portuguese rifle, and was used by them in Africa, as well as by South African troops, to whom the Portuguese supplied a large number. This is the only Vergueiro I have encountered with the original finish on the stock, most of those from Africa & elsewhere have been well sanded. Bayonet & scabbard below.
    -Espingarda Modelo 1904, DWM, Berlin, 1904-08. This one is different in that it is D.M.G.L.M. marked, in English, General Military Directorate of Laurenco Marques. So this rifle was assigned to Portuguese East Africa, where they were used by Portuguese, and, when captured, by German troops. Bayonet & scabbard below.
    -Espingarda Modelo 1896, Steyr 1899, cal. 6.5x53R. These short rifles were ordered for the Portuguese Navy & were based on the Romanian Mannlicher rifles. They even have the Romanian final inspection proofs on them, as does the bayonet, which I acquired from Portugal, below.
    -Espingarda Modelo 1886 'Kropatschek', Steyr 1886, cal. 8x56R Krop. These would still have been in use with colonial forces in WWI. Bayonet & scabbard below.
    -Model 1903 Mannlicher-Schoenauer, Steyr 1907, cal. 6.5x54. Greek rifle with original sling, not easy to find. Bayonet is for this rifle but is a cheat, as it was made in Italy & so is post WWI in origin.

    Central Powers-
    Austria-Hungary:

    -M.95 Mannlicher, Steyr, 1917. This one was converted postwar to 8x56R. Has a canvas sling & the Austrian rod rifle grenade w/friction pull primer. Below it is an OEWG marked M.95 bayonet & scabbard & an FGGY bayoonet/scabbard. Just below the rifle grenade is the special 8x50R blank used for firing that grenade.
    -M.88/90 Mannlicher, Steyr, 1890, cal. 8x50R. Rear sight sideplates are FGGY marked. Below it is a M.88 bayonet/scabbard/frog.
    -M1891 Mosin-Nagant, Tula, 1915, cal. 7.62x54R. That description should tell you this is a cheat. While the action is not from an Austrian conversion, the stock is. It is dated 1890-something (can't make out the last number) & has the Austrian wire swivels. Also has a hole in the bottom of the butt for the screw-in type Austrian swivel, and is marked W on the top of the butt & A on the right side. That's probably as close as I'll ever come to an Austrian M-N conversion.
    -M.95 Mannlicher carbine, Steyr, 1917, cal. 8x50R. Except for the blued bolt, this one seems pretty original. Has the stutzen type front band with bayonet lug & stacking hook, & screw head on the left side of the rifle. Below is a M.95 carbine bayonet w. scabbard/frog.
    -M.95 carbine, Budapest, barrel dated 1899, cal. 8x50R. This carbine is mismatched, with a Budapest receiver & a Steyr barrel. The interesting thing about it is it seems to have a karabiner style front band instead of a stutzen band. It has a bayonet lug, but no stacking hook, and the screw head is designed to enter from the right side of the rifle.
    -M.90 Extra-Korps Gewehr, cal. 8x50R, Steyr, barrel date 1902. Missing rear sling swivel.
    -M.90 cavalry carbine, Steyr, cal. 8x50R. Has no barrel date, and circle T firing proofs. This may have been a Bulgarian contract carbine or one of those made for commercial sale to other militaries. With a very old leather sling.
    -Zeitzunder or 'Guguruz' hand grenade with friction pull fuse. The cast iron fragmentation section interchanges with the rifel grenade up top.
    -M1898 revolver, Rast & Gasser, Vienna, 1916, cal. 8mm Gasser. 8 shot, the most wonderfully gawky & mechanical pistol I've handled.
    -M1912 Steyr-Hahn, Steyr, 1914, cal. 9x21.
    -Above is the Austrian version of the German Stahlhelm, in their tan color with fabric chinstrap.
    -Below is the version of the Austrian helmet that has the Berndorfer type liner instead of the German system. It's not a Berndorfer helmet, look to JPS's collection for those, but note how the rivets behind the ventilating lugs are much smaller and higher up than those on the other helmet.

    Germany:

    -Gewehr 98, DWM 1915, cal.7,9x57. Repro sling, 98/05 bayonet below scabbard & frog above.
    -Kar. 98a, Erfurt, 1916. Below is unit marked 84/98 bayo. w. iron mounted leather scabbard.
    -Gew. 88, Spandau 1889. S marked, no overt signs of Turkish use.
    -Gew.88/05, Steyr, 1890. Czech made Turkish bolt, repro sling, M71/84 bayonet by OEWG above, scabbard below, .
    -Gew. 91, Erfurt 1893. Has a cartridge case stuck in the chamber that I haven't gotten around to yet, hence the open bolt, clip of 1903 dated 7,9x57 above.
    -Mosin-Nagant M1891, Chatellerault, France, 1895, cal. 7.62x54R. The sharp eyed will note that this rifle has a Finnish stock & sling. It is also fitted with the German bayonet adapter for this rifle as used in WWI. 1918 dated m84/98 bayonet above, scabbard below. Also my only German manufactured round of 7.62x54R ammunition above, made by Polte in Magdeburg in 1917.
    -7.7cm shrapnel shell with its separate loading shell case.
    -Mauser C96 pistol, Mauser Oberndorf, cal. 7.63x25. Wartime military accepted commercial style pistol, w/ stripper clip of 10 rounds of 7.63mm Mauser.
    -Below the C96 pistol is a 2cm Becker cannon round. The Becker was developed for use on zeppelins. While it saw limited use in the air, it was used as a ground based anti-aircraft cannon. Dated 1918.
    -Model 1914 n/A ball hand grenade & Model 1917 'egg' grenade. Below them Model 1917 stick ('potato masher') grenade.
    -Pistol-08 (Luger), DWM, 1914, cal. 9x19.
    -M16 Stahlhelm with fitted hessian cover.
    -M16 Stahlhelm shell, camo painted, with large, compression type fracture on the top.
    -M18 Stahlhelm.

    Bulgaria/Turkey:

    -M.95 Mannlicher, Steyr, 1915-18?, cal. 8x50R. No Bulgarian crest, but has the Lion proofs on barrel & receiver. NCO bayonet below it is not Bulgarian marked, but I bought it from someone in Bulgaria, so it goes here for now.
    -M1887 Mauser, Mauser Oberndorf, 1889-90, cal. 9.5x60R. Last Mauser military blackpowder design. My only round of 9.5mm Turkish ammo is below it.
    -M1893 Mauser, Mauser Oberndorf, 1894-95, cal. 7.65x53. Original condition Turkish M93 with original looking sling. M1890 bayonet below.
    -M1903 Mauser, Mauser Oberndorf, 1908?, cal. 7.65x53. John Wall told me a few years ago that this was from the Turkish Macedonian Gendermerie contract and so was made in, I think, 1908. M1903 bayonet below.
    -FN Browning Model 1903, cal. 9mm Browning Long. Ottoman contract marked.
    -Turkish cut down visor stahlhelm. Most of these seem to have been based on M18 German helmets. This is based on an M16.

    Hope you guys enjoy

  2. #2

    Default Re: WO1 rifles

    Wow, impressive +rep

  3. #3

    Default Re: WO1 rifles

    Just remember that if the Ross Rifle is included, it should have high accuracy but very high misfire rate.
    Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy how's yer soul?"
    But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
    The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
    O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

  4. #4
    Comrade_Rory's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: WO1 rifles

    This is awesome
    +rep

    Those French rifles are proper ugly haha,
    I'd keep retreating too if i had to carry those into battle "But i don't want to Germans to see me carrying this!!"

  5. #5
    Falconpilot's Avatar Join Arma3 campaign!
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    Default Re: WO1 rifles

    Quote Originally Posted by RorySheen View Post
    This is awesome
    +rep

    Those French rifles are proper ugly haha,
    I'd keep retreating too if i had to carry those into battle "But i don't want to Germans to see me carrying this!!"
    thx for the rep

    haha indeed, the french were retreating because of their looks, we belgiums on the other hand probably only had 3 rifles in total so we had to retreat

  6. #6

    Default Re: WO1 rifles

    Dam very nice work indeed!! + rep

  7. #7
    RO Citizen's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: WO1 rifles

    Great stuff! +rep
    [Col] RO Citizen

  8. #8
    Audacia's Avatar Give Life Back to Music
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    Default Re: WO1 rifles

    Good work mate! +rep, hopefully BDIZZLE can use these?

    Under the patronage of Inkie Pie: Text Editor for The Great War
    Roma Surrectum II





  9. #9
    B-DizL's Avatar TGW Lead Modeller
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    Default Re: WO1 rifles

    @ Falconpilot

    Holy i just my pants! + REP
    Having all the name too is even better!

    Quote Originally Posted by Audacia View Post
    Good work mate! +rep, hopefully BDIZZLE can use these?
    Oh yes this will help alot

  10. #10

    Default Re: WO1 rifles

    Wow, you even included the grenades and bayonets! Nice job, +rep

  11. #11
    B-DizL's Avatar TGW Lead Modeller
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    Default Re: WO1 rifles

    This will also help us to know what equipment the other nations used, like i didnt know belgium used the french style helmet... and the ottomans used the german / austrian style helmet.

    Also whats up with that wierd looking italian helmet? not the fabric covered one....

  12. #12
    Falconpilot's Avatar Join Arma3 campaign!
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    Default Re: WO1 rifles

    Quote Originally Posted by BDIZZLE356 View Post

    Oh yes this will help alot
    I'm happy to hear it will help

    Quote Originally Posted by BDIZZLE356 View Post
    This will also help us to know what equipment the other nations used, like i didnt know belgium used the french style helmet... and the ottomans used the german / austrian style helmet.

    Also whats up with that wierd looking italian helmet? not the fabric covered one....
    Apparently is what used for heavy assault troops, it seems to have better armour plating than other helmets but damn, they could've made it better looking :p

    Btw: I also posted an entire read on the belgian army (mortars, rifles, machineguns) in THIS thread perhaps you can check it out, might also be usefull for you guys

  13. #13

    Default Re: WO1 rifles

    nice find +rep. So now do the game models

  14. #14
    Falconpilot's Avatar Join Arma3 campaign!
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    Default Re: WO1 rifles

    Quote Originally Posted by chudolf View Post
    nice find +rep. So now do the game models

    I would be happy to help the mod team out but I have 0 experience with making mods so don't hope for it, I thought Bdizzle allready had some rifle models?

  15. #15

    Default Re: WO1 rifles

    Germans had a T18 Anti Tank Rifle LOL

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...e-IMG_1006.jpg
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauser_1918_T-Gewehr

    Maybe It can be used ingame


    Specifications
    Weight 15.9 kg (35 lbs), 18.5 kg (41 lbs) loaded with the bipod
    Length 169.1 cm
    Crew two man crew
    Cartridge 13.2 mm TuF
    Caliber 13.2 mm (.525 inches)
    Action bolt-action
    Rate of fire single shot
    Effective range 500 m
    Sights 100 - 500 m
    Light Silence and Deadly ~Ghost division~

  16. #16
    Darkhorse's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: WO1 rifles

    ^Thats the type of rifle I mentioned in the Tech suggestions thread.

  17. #17
    'Gunny's Avatar Überrock über alles
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    Default Re: WO1 rifles

    Quote Originally Posted by RorySheen View Post
    This is awesome
    +rep

    Those French rifles are proper ugly haha,
    I'd keep retreating too if i had to carry those into battle "But i don't want to Germans to see me carrying this!!"
    that goes along with another French Stereotype

  18. #18
    Light Silence and Deadly ~Ghost division~

  19. #19

    Default Re: WO1 rifles

    Just an idea, could we allow the "fix bayonets" option, having them behave like a socket bayonet, but still allow firing. I'd like to hear an officer yelling "Fix bayonets!" before the unit charges the enemy line . Maybe the bayonets could slightly reduce accuracy (I say this so there is a reason NOT to have bayonets fixed all the time). This is slighty true because extra weight on the front of the barrel would make it harder to maintain accuracy.

  20. #20
    Darkhorse's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: WO1 rifles

    Having bodged a 16inch SMLE bayonet onto my Mosin Carbine (without damaging either you'll be glad to know, cable ties ftw!), I can tell you, it adds much more weight to the end of the barrel than most would realise, and it does get much more tiring holding the thing steady. I'd go so far to say that it would have really sizeable impact on accuracy.

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