Proposal: The Seafarer

[Mors Vigilia]

A wild Gainsey appears!

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Anyhoo, the name for this is a bit vague as the actual "Seafarer" could be anything from a trader to a pirate and there will be traits assigned to represent this. The following proposal draws from the mercenary, merchant and fishermen professions.

All seafarers start with one ship with five men plus themselves to operate it. From this they gain an income of 500 Crowns.

Additional ships can be bought at a price of 5000 Crowns. These grant an extra 200 Crowns of income and the addition of 50 men to the Seafarer's retinue. (The first lot of 50 men cancel out the previous 5 that all freemen get). While idle or taking part in a menial task the full retinue would not be active on the ships due to the size of them at this time though they are the number that the Seafarer can call upon at any time should he need to.

Weekly Rolls:
1 - Storm. The Seafarer's ships are badly damage, they cannot be put to work this year and forfeit their roll for the next year as losses are recouped. No additional income.
2-4 - Hostile waters. The ships cannot depart from their place of birth due to either stormy seas or high enemy/pirate activity, making any planned voyage all but suicidal. No additional income.
5-8 - Competition. Rival ships make it difficult for the Seafarer to do all that he plans. 100 extra Crowns income this year.
9-12 - Work as usual. Nothing in particular caused much upset this year, though nor was there anything to place this year above the rest. 200 extra Crowns gained this year.
13-16 - Must be doing something right. The Seafarer has seen a goodly amount of work this year. 300 Crowns extra gained this year.
17-19 - Lucky break. A wealthy backer has seen fit to employ the Seafarer at for an easy task. 400 extra Crowns gained this year.
20 - King of the seas. Any would-be rivals have suffered grave misfortunes this year, giving the Seafarer free access to control the waterways this year. 500 extra Crowns gained this year.

Paths of the Seafarer:

Merchant Ship
The Seafarer has decided to either trade privately or attach himself to a merchant house.

Investment:
Once per year, a merchant may risk their coins in an attempt to turn a profit on this venture. The venture may be Low-Risk, Medium-Risk or High-Risk. Low-Risk will gain 20% profit if successful, Medium-Risk will gain 40% and High-Risk will gain 70%. A mod will roll a d20 every income day and consult the table:

1 - Total Loss! The merchant loses the entire amount risked, and earns no income from clients or fleet either.
2-4 - Market Slump The merchant loses 75% of the amount risked; subtract 20% from next year's income.
5-8 - Weak Market Low-Risk ventures gain normal profit, all others lose 50% of risked amount.
9-12 - Average Market Low-Risk and Medium-Risk ventures gain normal profit, High-Risk loses 50% of risked amount.
13-16 - Strong Market All ventures gain normal profit.
17-19 - Growing Market Gain normal profit +20%; add an additional 10% on next year's income.
20 - Market Boom! Gain normal profit +50%

A roll of 13 and above grants the Seafarer a Client. Clients provide an additional 1500 Crowns a year

(Mods - Rules need a bit of editing in the Freeman professions re Florin/Crown conversions)

Smuggler
The Seafarer has decided to involve himself and his fleet in more profitable yet controversial exploits. These could be anything from smuggling arms to enemy forces or capturing free people and selling them as thralls in Scandinavia and elsewhere.

Smuggling:
Once per year, a merchant may risk their coins in an attempt to turn a profit on this venture. The venture may be Low-Risk, Medium-Risk or High-Risk. Low-Risk will gain 40% profit if successful, Medium-Risk will gain 70% and High-Risk will gain 100%. A mod will roll a d20 every income day and consult the table:

1 - Total Loss! The merchant loses the entire amount risked, and must pay the amount that was risked once more to compensate.
2-4 - The merchant loses 50% of the amount risked; subtract 10% from next year's income.
5-8 - Low-Risk ventures gain normal profit, all others lose 25% of risked amount.
9-12 - Average Market Low-Risk and Medium-Risk ventures gain normal profit, High-Risk loses 25% of risked amount.
13-16 - All ventures gain normal profit.
17-19 - Gain normal profit +40%; add an additional 20% on next year's income.
20 - Gain normal profit +100%

After these are rolled we must then discover whether the smuggler was caught:
1-5 - Caught
6-20 - Undetected

If caught, a 50/50 roll determines whether the amount risked and any profit made was found and confiscated.

Pirate
The Seafarer has committed his fleet to battle, be it for illegal activities such as pillaging undefended towns and plundering merchant ships, or under the flag of a warring nation, transporting troops and adding to their naval strength.

Plundering merchant ships:
Mind's gone blank on this one, give me some time to work it out.

Pillaging:
Normal pillage rules apply with the addition of villages yielding D20 x 500 Crowns.
Not sure as to usual troop numbers in 3.0 as I can find no map showing them or even who owns what so you guys are going to have to help me here in regards to how many men should be in each type of settlement. So far I'm thinking that villages would be D20 x 25, minor settlements would be D20 x 50 and so on...

In the act of facing off with the guards in the act of pillaging a 50/50 die is rolled determining whether the settlement gains any reinforcements. If so, the numbers of these reinforcements are determined by the same roll of the settlement they are defending. So if a village is under attack and the defenders roll a 4, they currently have 100 men. However the 50/50 roll shows that reinforcements are on their way, as the reinforcements are reinforcing a village they are subject to the same D20 x 50 roll. They roll a 13 and so the pirates are now fighting 100 + 325 = 425 men.

Thieves and beggars:
The pirate can hire desperate men to fight for him. So long as he remains a pirate he can hire 50 men and 1 ship together for 1000 Crowns. However, if the Seafarer abandons the path of the pirate for another, he loses these extra men and ships.

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At the beginning of each year the Seafarer may choose to change his path, though once chosen it is fixed for that year.

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Skills
Every Seafarer gets +2 for naval battles.

The following skills can be chosen from as normal and shall be added to the current skill sets.

Naval Battles - +1
Businessman - now applies to both Merchant and Merchant ship
Smuggler - +1 to both smuggling and detection rolls.
Pirate - + 10% men when hiring thieves and beggars.

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Right, that's all for now. I may have missed some things or made something else too complicated so let me know. I also think that we may be able to work out some way to allow for a Fisherman to become a Seafarer if they wish to climb the fishy ladder with the possibility of branching out into mercantile activities and the like. Merci.

[Majonga]

Anyhoo, the name for this is a bit vague as the actual "Seafarer" could be anything from a trader to a pirate and there will be traits assigned to represent this. The following proposal draws from the mercenary, merchant and fishermen professions.

All seafarers start with one ship with five men plus themselves to operate it. From this they gain an income of 500 Crowns.

Additional ships can be bought at a price of 5000 Crowns. These grant an extra 200 Crowns of income and the addition of 50 men to the Seafarer's retinue. (The first lot of 50 men cancel out the previous 5 that all freemen get). While idle or taking part in a menial task the full retinue would not be active on the ships due to the size of them at this time though they are the number that the Seafarer can call upon at any time should he need to.

I like this, If this was fused with the fisherman profession it would be a very interesting path. Perhaps simply a path known as "Sailor"?, it would replace the fisherman path (which no-one seems to find appealing), On the one hand, he is like the mercenary in hiring ships, but we could add in some of the fisherman buildings to give the Sailor something similar to the Mercenary Guild.

Weekly Rolls:
1 - Storm. The Seafarer's ships are badly damage, they cannot be put to work this year and forfeit their roll for the next year as losses are recouped. No additional income.
2-4 - Hostile waters. The ships cannot depart from their place of birth due to either stormy seas or high enemy/pirate activity, making any planned voyage all but suicidal. No additional income.
5-8 - Competition. Rival ships make it difficult for the Seafarer to do all that he plans. 100 extra Crowns income this year.
9-12 - Work as usual. Nothing in particular caused much upset this year, though nor was there anything to place this year above the rest. 200 extra Crowns gained this year.
13-16 - Must be doing something right. The Seafarer has seen a goodly amount of work this year. 300 Crowns extra gained this year.
17-19 - Lucky break. A wealthy backer has seen fit to employ the Seafarer at for an easy task. 400 extra Crowns gained this year.
20 - King of the seas. Any would-be rivals have suffered grave misfortunes this year, giving the Seafarer free access to control the waterways this year. 500 extra Crowns gained this year.

Not so sure on this part. Instead of this just applying to the Seafarer/Sailor profession perhaps this could be made more universal and effect all shipping, Merchant Shipping, Military fleets etc. It would be less about how much the sailor earns and more about the condition of the seas for that year.

Paths of the Seafarer:

Merchant Ship
The Seafarer has decided to either trade privately or attach himself to a merchant house.

Investment:
Once per year, a merchant may risk their coins in an attempt to turn a profit on this venture. The venture may be Low-Risk, Medium-Risk or High-Risk. Low-Risk will gain 20% profit if successful, Medium-Risk will gain 40% and High-Risk will gain 70%. A mod will roll a d20 every income day and consult the table:

1 - Total Loss! The merchant loses the entire amount risked, and earns no income from clients or fleet either.
2-4 - Market Slump The merchant loses 75% of the amount risked; subtract 20% from next year's income.
5-8 - Weak Market Low-Risk ventures gain normal profit, all others lose 50% of risked amount.
9-12 - Average Market Low-Risk and Medium-Risk ventures gain normal profit, High-Risk loses 50% of risked amount.
13-16 - Strong Market All ventures gain normal profit.
17-19 - Growing Market Gain normal profit +20%; add an additional 10% on next year's income.
20 - Market Boom! Gain normal profit +50%

A roll of 13 and above grants the Seafarer a Client. Clients provide an additional 1500 Crowns a year

This path in particular, to my mind, encroaches on what Merchants can already do. And I don't like the Roll above 13 granting a client, it doesn't seem to make as much sense as the Merchant has to buy clients, but the seafarer gets one if he makes a good roll?

(Mods - Rules need a bit of editing in the Freeman professions re Florin/Crown conversions)

Yes.

Smuggler
The Seafarer has decided to involve himself and his fleet in more profitable yet controversial exploits. These could be anything from smuggling arms to enemy forces or capturing free people and selling them as thralls in Scandinavia and elsewhere.

Smuggling:
Once per year, a merchant may risk their coins in an attempt to turn a profit on this venture. The venture may be Low-Risk, Medium-Risk or High-Risk. Low-Risk will gain 40% profit if successful, Medium-Risk will gain 70% and High-Risk will gain 100%. A mod will roll a d20 every income day and consult the table:

1 - Total Loss! The merchant loses the entire amount risked, and must pay the amount that was risked once more to compensate.
2-4 - The merchant loses 50% of the amount risked; subtract 10% from next year's income.
5-8 - Low-Risk ventures gain normal profit, all others lose 25% of risked amount.
9-12 - Average Market Low-Risk and Medium-Risk ventures gain normal profit, High-Risk loses 25% of risked amount.
13-16 - All ventures gain normal profit.
17-19 - Gain normal profit +40%; add an additional 20% on next year's income.
20 - Gain normal profit +100%

After these are rolled we must then discover whether the smuggler was caught:
1-5 - Caught
6-20 - Undetected

If caught, a 50/50 roll determines whether the amount risked and any profit made was found and confiscated.

Not really sure how this is particularly different from the Merchant, except for slightly different returns. I will come back to this later.

Pirate
The Seafarer has committed his fleet to battle, be it for illegal activities such as pillaging undefended towns and plundering merchant ships, or under the flag of a warring nation, transporting troops and adding to their naval strength.

Plundering merchant ships:
Mind's gone blank on this one, give me some time to work it out.

Pillaging:
Normal pillage rules apply with the addition of villages yielding D20 x 500 Crowns.
Not sure as to usual troop numbers in 3.0 as I can find no map showing them or even who owns what so you guys are going to have to help me here in regards to how many men should be in each type of settlement. So far I'm thinking that villages would be D20 x 25, minor settlements would be D20 x 50 and so on...

In the act of facing off with the guards in the act of pillaging a 50/50 die is rolled determining whether the settlement gains any reinforcements. If so, the numbers of these reinforcements are determined by the same roll of the settlement they are defending. So if a village is under attack and the defenders roll a 4, they currently have 100 men. However the 50/50 roll shows that reinforcements are on their way, as the reinforcements are reinforcing a village they are subject to the same D20 x 50 roll. They roll a 13 and so the pirates are now fighting 100 + 325 = 425 men.

Thieves and beggars:
The pirate can hire desperate men to fight for him. So long as he remains a pirate he can hire 50 men and 1 ship together for 1000 Crowns. However, if the Seafarer abandons the path of the pirate for another, he loses these extra men and ships.

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At the beginning of each year the Seafarer may choose to change his path, though once chosen it is fixed for that year.

I like the idea of a pirate, but here is what I would suggest. Instead of having three different paths which the player chooses from, combine all the paths into one, but leave options for the Sailor. For example, rather than being a merchant (which is essentially a normal merchant with ships and without some of the better buildings) You can choose to smuggle goods which will provide higher returns but a greater risk than the Merchant's Merchant fleets. The reason being because the Smuggler offers goods that the normal merchant can't. This would also separate the Sailor from the Merchant.

Instead of smuggling, or as well as, the Sailor can choose to attack the shipping of existing merchants (player merchants) and if he overwhelms the defenders, the Merchant's fleet gains no profit, and the Pirate pockets what the Merchant and the other players would have made (i.e. the 1500 crowns). Pillaging looks quite good as it is actually, though I would need to check the normal pillage rules. As far as I know from the provinces it is about 200-300 men on average per province as a levy, is that what you meant. On the subject of thieves and beggars? why not just call them pirates and allow the player to conduct 'Acts of Piracy' such as pillage or attacking merchant fleets. They would be similar to mercenaries but with 1 ship and 50 men instead of 100 men.

Part of the reason I suggest this way of doing things is that if we passed this as is, it makes the Sailor probably the most complicated and diverse profession, particularly compared to the smith or the Mercenary. Instead if we combined them the Sailor would have quite reasonable diversity, but wouldn't have a pile of rules associated with him.

Skills
Every Seafarer gets +2 for naval battles.

The following skills can be chosen from as normal and shall be added to the current skill sets.

Naval Battles - +1
Businessman - now applies to both Merchant and Merchant ship
Smuggler - +1 to both smuggling and detection rolls.
Pirate - + 10% men when hiring thieves and beggars.

This sounds good, except to the beggars and thieves. If we did that it would be better to make it something like 'contractor' or something, and essentially lower the cost of purchasing Pirates/Thieves & Beggars/Mercenaries.

I realize the way I split this up could be hard to read, but I think the concept is a very good idea if it were to replace the fisherman.

[Raglan]

i'll admit, some of this went over my head. But, doesn't the initial rolls mean a huge amount of money? Okay not all produce money, but its a large amount (or am i getting confused because we had to stick two pointless 0s on the end of everything)

[Bonez]

i'll admit, some of this went over my head. But, doesn't the initial rolls mean a huge amount of money? Okay not all produce money, but its a large amount (or am i getting confused because we had to stick two pointless 0s on the end of everything)

Yeah some balancing would be needed I think because this has the easy possibility to make several thousand dollars in very short amount of time, compared to most other professions.

[René Artois]

It's basically fisherman and merchant shmooshed together

[Barbarian Nobility]

Dont like the money making part, too much like a merchant...but the piracy stuff is cool! Why not just can the 'merchanty' stuff and make it a pirate? We could come up with rolls to randomly determine foreign merchants ships being available to predate and the money could be generated from attacking those. conversely it would make for some interesting diplomatic spats between kingdoms and would help the realm's cause in times of war.

[Bonez]

It would, at that I vote to change the profession to pirate, and make it so that kingdoms can hire pirates to attack other kingdoms ships and destroy their trade.

[René Artois]

We already have smuggling and already have had piracy proposed: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=518718.

[Barbarian Nobility]

It would, at that I vote to change the profession to pirate, and make it so that kingdoms can hire pirates to attack other kingdoms ships and destroy their trade.

Yeah but that leaves the player bored as bukake in peace time. I'd have a peace time roll chart like this;

1 - 8: Your fleet finds no ships...
9 - 12: Your fleet finds English cogs (player choice whether or not to attack)
13: Your fleet find Breton cogs(player choice whether or not to attack)
14: Your fleet finds Flemish cogs(player choice whether or not to attack)
15: Your fleet finds French cogs(player choice whether or not to attack)
16: Your fleet finds German cogs(player choice whether or not to attack)
17: Your fleet finds Navarrese cogs(player choice whether or not to attack)
18: Your fleet finds Castillan cogs(player choice whether or not to attack)
19: Your fleet finds Danish cogs(player choice whether or not to attack)
20: Your fleet finds Scottish cogs(player choice whether or not to attack)

then there would be a roll to determine the size of the fleet. it would be a rolled battle, with pillage rolls depending on the size of the fleet, IE

1 - 5 ships D20 x 100 florins
6 - 10 ships D20 x 500 florins
11 - 15 ships D20 x 1000 florins
16 and upwards D20 x 2000 florins

[Bonez]

My suggestion was during times of war, for additional income, other times you could freelance.

[Majonga]

We already have smuggling and already have had piracy proposed: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=518718.

Well proposed is perhaps a strong word for those three lines of text that Narf put, perhaps suggested. Even then they aren't at all expanded upon.

The Pirate

Well, What i had in mind here is well.. The Mercenary rules applied to the Sea with some options of plundering, maybe the ability to plunder Actual Player Merchants.

And other stuff, Smuggling is a idea as-well, I was hoping for alot of Input in this

It's a bit... bare in comparison to Gainsey's

[René Artois]

It all adds up to an unoriginal proposal.

[Majonga]

It all adds up to an unoriginal proposal.

And it should be shot down based on that? Simply because the theme is unoriginal doesn't mean there is not originality in the proposal. Otherwise how is there growth?

Either waste of time splitting hairs like this. If you don't have anything to constructive to contribute then why bother?

[Mors Vigilia]

First off, I don't mean for this as a replacement or overhaul of the fisherman.

Secondly, perhaps it would be better to split this a little so as to simplify it. Instead of interchangeable paths we can start like this:

The Sailor

The sailor
The sailor has a ship and small crew (Maximum 25 men) with a base income of 500 Crowns a year.

Weekly rolls
1 - Storm. The Seafarer's ships are badly damage, they cannot be put to work this year and forfeit their roll for the next year as losses are recouped. No additional income.
2-4 - Hostile waters. The ships cannot depart from their place of birth due to either stormy seas or high enemy/pirate activity, making any planned voyage all but suicidal. No additional income.
5-8 - Competition. Rival ships make it difficult for the Seafarer to do all that he plans. 100 extra Crowns income this year.
9-12 - Work as usual. Nothing in particular caused much upset this year, though nor was there anything to place this year above the rest. 200 extra Crowns gained this year.
13-16 - Must be doing something right. The Seafarer has seen a goodly amount of work this year. 300 Crowns extra gained this year.
17-19 - Lucky break. A wealthy backer has seen fit to employ the Seafarer at for an easy task. 400 extra Crowns gained this year.
20 - King of the seas. Any would-be rivals have suffered grave misfortunes this year, giving the Seafarer free access to control the waterways this year. 500 extra Crowns gained this year.

The work itself can be RP'd as pretty much anything.

Smuggling
If driven by greed or desperate need for coin, a sailor may choose to smuggle contraband. The sailor must state this in the Moderator Action Thread before the yearly rolls are done. For him, any profit gained from the weekly rolls will be doubled. After these are rolled we must then discover whether the smuggler was caught:
1-5 - Caught
6-20 - Undetected
If caught, the sailor is imprisoned for a year and forfeits both his next year's income and roll.

The Sailor can then choose to "promote" himself to Pirate or Merchant.

The Pirate

Pirate
For 5000 Crowns, a Sailor may set up a pirate cove which grants them an extra 200 Crowns a year.

Additional ships and crewmen can be bought at a price of 1000 Crowns. These grant an extra 200 Crowns of income and the addition of 25 men to the Seafarer's retinue. While idle or taking part in a menial task the full retinue would not be active on the ships due to the size of them at this time though they are the number that the Pirate can call upon at any time should he need to.

The pirate can plunder ships and pillage coastal towns and villages to gain coin as well as hiring themselves out to warring nations.*

*The plunder and pillage stuff will need to be a separate proposal due to their complexity but they'll serve to grant more RP and monetary possibilities for Pirate and Mercenaries to combat the stupidly overpowered merchants, especially now I see somebody's actually castrated the Mercs by giving them upkeep...

The Merchant Captain

Merchant Captain
For 6000 Crowns, a Sailor may set up a Merchants Warehouse which grants them an extra 500 Crowns a year.

Same investment rolls as the Merchant.

If the investment roll is 1-5, the Merchant Captain loses 1 Client.
If the investment roll is 15-20, the Merchant Captain gains 1 Client.
Clients grant an extra 100 Crowns a year and come and go according to the Merchant's success (you know, realistically...). A Merchant Captain cannot have a negative amount of Clients...

Merchant Captains cannot join the Merchant's Guild. T'is a silly place.

That should do for a base to start with. Simple trial and error will iron out any kinks.

N.B. There will be no fleets of cogs. At this time cogs are rare and currently don't even have decks. There shall be no such fleets until after the Third Crusade. Currently your best bet for a reliable ship is a Knarr for the next 200 years at least.

[Lord Damien]

1-5 - Caught
6-20 - Undetected

Why is the caught so low ?. Why can it not be 1- 10 Caught
11 - 20 - Undetected ?.

Make it fair because how many rolls would land between 1 and 5 ?. Well I guess some could if its 2 die. But Eh you have a higher chance of getting 6 t0 20 than anything else

[Mors Vigilia]

Make it fair because how many rolls would land between 1 and 5 ?. Well I guess some could if its 2 die. But Eh you have a higher chance of getting 6 t0 20 than anything else

Tricky question... My roughest guess would be 25%. Yes, perhaps 25% would be the correct answer here...

Why is the caught so low ?. Why can it not be 1- 10 Caught
11 - 20 - Undetected ?

Because being imprisoned every other week does not a fun game make.

[Lord Damien]

if caught, the sailor is imprisoned for a year and forfeits both his next year's income and roll.

Why Not make it that they can be imprisoned or pay a Fine of 200 crowns ?. Its like the Jail in Monopoly you have the option to pay out or you can stay in Jail for a number of turns. In our case it would be a Year.

[Mors Vigilia]

Possibly a system of fines/bribes could work but I feel the specified way is simpler and allows for smoother gameplay. Determining the amount of the bribe would prove tricky so as to make it an incentive to avoiding imprisonment but also enough to make that year's haul invalid as well as taking a hefty chunk off of next year's which at a rate of 50/50 would actually prove detrimental. So I've talked myself out of a bribe/fine system. No to that.

[René Artois]

Maybe merchant captains can be employed by merchants and they both get bonuses for it?

[Double A]

I'm disappointed in you, Gainsey. Not a single kenning?