Speculation thread?

[StealthEvo]

SSSSSHH I was referring to the southern French town...

[Agamemnon]

Lol.

[CountMRVHS]

Wow, what I wouldn't give to have been here at 3:57, before Eorl took down those extra screens!

I know it's WIP and changes will be/have been made, but it's great to see this! I like the fact that Mirkwood is bigger than just 3 regions. This gives the Elves something to take over that makes sense.

I wonder how well the Elves will be able to stand up against the Dwarves & Dale, as it looks like there could be war within the first couple turns. Maybe Rhun will be a bigger threat to Dale/Dwarves, and keep them busy for awhile.

I'm also glad to see what looks like a very strong rebel presence in the mountains.

And those battlemap trees look spectacular!

Thank you very much for posting, Eorl; looks great!

[acci_dent]

I'd be interested to know how Dwarf/Elf character aging will be handled.
Are Elves simply not going to die (except in battle) and Dwarves last a couple of hundred years?
What about new characters?

[StealthEvo]

I think they will age (although i'm not on the team) They might have a different set of aging triggers then the Men to give the illusion of youth despite being like 50ish where Men have MP reductions and Hp reductions the Elvish and Dwarf characters will simply have a delayed set of aging. I can only speculate

[WImPyTjeH]

I'd be interested to know how Dwarf/Elf character aging will be handled.
Are Elves simply not going to die (except in battle) and Dwarves last a couple of hundred years?
What about new characters?

FATW is yet to uncover which system they're going to use. What you should understand is that age is hardcoded in RTW. It can be prolonged by traits, but that's all. Due to the engine's limitations a character's age is reset when/if he reaches the age of 122 (or something like that, I can't recall). The only character capable of doing that seems to be Barahir, only because he is already 117 years old at the start of the campaign. RTW character rarely grow older then 80 or even 70 years old. As far a I know, the only possible way to stop a character from aging, thus from dying, is to stop time completely by using a script that leaves out the winter season (changing seasons, winter to summer, ages the characters).

[StealthEvo]

FATW is yet to uncover which system they're going to use. What you should understand is that age is hardcoded in RTW. It can be prolonged by traits, but that's all. Due to the engine's limitations a character's age is reset when/if he reaches the age of 122 (or something like that, I can't recall). The only character capable of doing that seems to be Barahir, only because he is already 117 years old at the start of the campaign. RTW character rarely grow older then 80 or even 70 years old. As far a I know, the only possible way to stop a character from aging, thus from dying, is to stop time completely by using a script that leaves out the winter season (changing seasons, winter to summer, ages the characters).

127 . The only issue with this at least with the Men of ME traits, is that as far as my knowledge of reading through the various needed files for my own research. There is no way to remove the Aging traits. So if you do have a character reach the magic number, they'll have the severely nerfing penalties of being 127, plus the losing sanity trait which hurts influence, management and I think command.

[Nehcrum]

I'd be interested to know how Dwarf/Elf character aging will be handled.
Are Elves simply not going to die (except in battle) and Dwarves last a couple of hundred years?
What about new characters?

Elven and dwarven characters will work the same as human, it is hardcoded and nothing the mod team can really do anything about.

I've heard that the suggestion is that they might change the text when a elf character dies to "got tired of life i middle-earth and sailed west across the sea" or something along those lines, and probably something similar with dwarves.

But in-game they simply will not be able to live longer than humans.

[the cooliest]

I think that there should be a goblins faction in the north....don't know if the Dwarves have taken Moria yet but if not...that would be a great VC. Or you could start a tad earlier then you have been and have Moria and the Misty Mountains under goblin control. And I think that the Elves need to participate in the war against Adunabar to win...or help get rid of some of the northern Goblins I have aforementioned. Dwarves also could be at war with Rhun and have to kill some of them. They might be focused on Moria itself and Rhun...while the Elves have to get rest of Mirkwood from some roving orcs (large orc armies in rebel settlements..so they aren't united but still prove a challenge to reconquer.) and maybe some of the Misty Mountains...though I don't think that they are the mountain type.

[Finrod Felagund]

I think that there should be a goblins faction in the north....don't know if the Dwarves have taken Moria yet but if not...that would be a great VC. Or you could start a tad earlier then you have been and have Moria and the Misty Mountains under goblin control.

Been covered in other posts dude. Basically, Orcs/Goblins aren't organised enough to consist as one faction - they need external leadership or an extremely good reason to stick together (like the death of the great goblin). Lore holds up with this aswell.

And I think that the Elves need to participate in the war against Adunabar to win...or help get rid of some of the northern Goblins I have aforementioned. Dwarves also could be at war with Rhun and have to kill some of them. They might be focused on Moria itself and Rhun...while the Elves have to get rest of Mirkwood from some roving orcs (large orc armies in rebel settlements..so they aren't united but still prove a challenge to reconquer.) and maybe some of the Misty Mountains...though I don't think that they are the mountain type.

It's kinda difficult to come up with backstories for the elves & dwarf factions - the fourth age is after all the twighlight of the non-man peoples. I've got faith the team will pull something out of the hat though. They haven't won all those awards for nothing.

[Thangaror]

I can't recall if or where somebody of the team ever stated it, but the fact why there's no orc faction is simply because they would get kicked in the ass so hard. The orc units are so weak (to weak in my eyes) that even their low costs and 0 turns for recruitment make AND the high costs of dunedainic/dwarven/elven units compensate this disadvantage. One unit of Aran Magor or Taur Echdiriath will just walk through them as a scythe through corn.

Still to have an orc faction there has to be a great leader. It can be doubted that the orcs in the Mountains were actually under control of Sauron in the TA. Probably to a degree when he resided in Dol Guldur, but for sure he lost some control when moving to Barad-dûr. So you could say that Adûnabâr and Herumor have some influence upon the Orcs. But actually this is implausible.
During the long war between Dwarves and Orcs, this was also in the beginning but a sacking of single orc strongholds. When the Dwarves continued to successful conquer all of the Ered Mithrin and northern Misty Mountains, the Orcs formed and alliance but only due to this imminent threat.

[StealthEvo]

The Orc units arn't actually that bad. The 0-turn recruitment Orcs in this Version are Orc Snaga(and hunters) which are loose skirmishers. The Orcish Champions Availible to both Adunabar and Dunland are actually quite useful. Given Dunlands barbaric culture they are some of the more higher armoured soldiers, plus being numerous allows them to cope with Rohan's Ai performance. Within Adunabar's roster they are less armoured but feature a decent attack and numbers. Which considering that Abundabar fights with the Rk mostly the Number advantage becomes critical when trying to out do the Morale. Furthermore Uruk Units mostly availible from Adbunabar's roster feature higher morale and stats then standard Orcish troops allowing for a more comparable Gonder Counter but with more numbers. Warg/Warg Rights cut down Rohan so quickly its not funny and the Terror helps with the RK. Plus you know. Trollz. Adunbars own little Mumakil.

IN Fa:TW Orcish units are actually decently playable with the right support.

I can see the Orc's holding rebel settlements. Not so much a faction but you know rebel stacks in key area's. I think thats a better idea then a stand alone Faction. That way the randomness can represent an Orcish Minor leader saying party time.

[fd7s]

what about giving adunabar 1 or 2 settlements were old angmar was and hav stacks of rebel orc armies in the settlments around thoes settlments to create like a kinda orc faction but with a evil precense in the north sorry if i make no sense i never do

[Aradan]

Just a reminder, but unit stats are to be redone from scratch for DoM, so that's not the reason for the absence of an Orc faction. It's mostly gameplay/lore.

[Flaviafelix]

Great work on FATW TNS and im looking forward to the new version. How many settlements would this full map be, because there will be only 9 factions, and with a faction like the elves or dwarves which are spread out ther might be lots of difficulty holding onto captured sttlements from distance to capital penalties.

[Aradan]

The number of settlements doesn't really matter, it's the map size that does - the full map is 261x210 (in tiles).

[athanaric]

I can see the Orc's holding rebel settlements. Not so much a faction but you know rebel stacks in key area's. I think thats a better idea then a stand alone Faction. That way the randomness can represent an Orcish Minor leader saying party time.

Actually, Orcs are the perfect embodiment of the RTW "rebel" concept (also, they are the perfect embodiment of the RTW AI, but that is another matter). Much more so than humans who are more complex by nature.

PS: Ther'e i's n'o suc'h thin'g a's a plura'l apostroph'e.

Great work on FATW TNS and im looking forward to the new version. How many settlements would this full map be, because there will be only 9 factions, and with a faction like the elves or dwarves which are spread out ther might be lots of difficulty holding onto captured sttlements from distance to capital penalties.

Well these factions should have big law boni for their buildings, especially the Elves, since they are not really into rebellion (unless there are Silmarils around).

[StealthEvo]

Actually, Orcs are the perfect embodiment of the RTW "rebel" concept (also, they are the perfect embodiment of the RTW AI, but that is another matter). Much more so than humans who are more complex by nature.

PS: Ther'e i's n'o suc'h thin'g a's a plura'l apostroph'e.




Well these factions should have big law boni for their buildings, especially the Elves, since they are not really into rebellion (unless there are Silmarils around).

Cheers I'll make sure to remember that one

[Aradan]

Well, they would be the perfect embodiment, if the rebels in RTW were more active - if get out of their respective regions and do something, for a change.

[StealthEvo]

Actually I think athanaric has a point. I know that the material in this thread seems to be a discussion over excatly what constitutes an Orc/Goblin leader and why they should or shouldn't be a faction. If you think about it, those factions/leaders that can muster Orcish interest to the point thats needed to send a full group of WAAAAAARGH! into action then Dunland and Abunabar fulfill these criteron to a degree. Barring that the standard rebel stack of Orc/Goblins not moving, occasionally attacking a lower numbered army, blocking trade, being a general annoyance. While also not having a stand alone leader (with very few exceptions ie Gothmog, Lurtz) means that the Captain (orc name) and having a not moving much stack. Is actually quite characteristic. At least in my mind of what an Orc mob should do. Not move from an area that they have resources IE food in and chillax. Robbin hobbits. Good life actually.