Last King of Dacia

[Dan Rares]

In this article is one main speculation the language of Thracians and the Romans .

Good luck on reading .


Decebal

Motto:

"Of Gods Themselves should we descend
All, facing Death, still have to bend;
It makes no difference as to die
An old hunchback, or younger guy,
Yet, Lion better says "good bye"
Over a Dog in chains..."

(From: "Decebalus addressing the people", by George Cosbuc)

Throughout the First century A.D., the Carpatho-Danubiano-Pontic geographical space apparently was some kind of an immense fighting zone. Its Thracian local population sees herself continously harassed, plundered, robbed, pushed aside, stricken and hit by all kinds of tribal new-comers, whose migratory waves gradually succeed to settle down somewhere and... to create, nevertheless, their later called "own" History and Culture, by actually stealing them both from us. Greek first-comers, who were to arrive here within three successive stages, from Eastern banks of the Caspican Sea (between 1900-1400 B.C.), had quietly formed a solid, large community near our Black Sea's friendly shores, only to find themselves, in their turn, later conquered by... Romans, and under whose oppressive yoke they were going to stay some 500 years well over us, Dacian-Thracians. Still, it appears that, through a kind of "miracle", their native language remained virtually unchanged while only ours', the future-to-be called Romanian people, was to substantially "modify" not during half a millenium, but just a hundred something years or so, of subsequent occupation by the same expansionist Empire... Should this be a truthful presentation indeed, or maybe it's more accurate to assume Thracian language as already existing, as being the so-called "Coarse Latin", which would explain why them, Thracians, didn't have to bother learning another "new" dialect, while forgetting their own "mother-tongue" (in accordance with the reputed Romanian historian Ovid Densusianu's theory, opposing other distorting ones)?...


But, let us better go back to explore History itself. Towards the very end of the above mentioned troubled period, precisely during the summertime of the year 87 A.D., one of Rome's most decadent, perverted ancient Emperors, namely Domitianus, sends his armed troops into an attempt to (finally) occupy the vast Dacian country situated at Danube River Northern's side. No sooner had the Romans crossed its "forbidden waters", trespassing on an improvised, vessel-made bridge, than Dacian warriors quickly managed to ambush them within the extremely narrow mountain pass of Tapae (a zone also longtime nicknamed "Transylvania's Iron Gates") and... to draw an awesome victory over the invaders. As a result, the famous V-th Roman Legion "ALAUDAE" is totally destroyed, its military insignias captured, with its commander- in-chief, veteran General Cornelius Fuscus, being killed on the battlefield. Yet, who had been the "architect" of this international echoing Dacian success, its Army's obviously inspired leader, anyway? His name, soon to be famous World-wide as well, was then written down by only one Roman historian, called Tacitus (but whose works were to inspire, afterwards, his following other War chroniclers, such as Orasius, within V-th century A.D. and, respectively, Jordanus, VI-th century A.D.). His name, the REAL NAME of the victorious "DACIAN WOLF", was actually DIURAPNEUS, a "TARABOSTES" (namely an aristocrat, according to local denomination) FROM SOUTH-WESTERN PART OF DACIA'S ORIGINS and to whom the Supreme ruler, then KING DURAS DURBANEUS, would soon GRANT HIS own THRONE after Tapae's victory, through an unprecedented visionary, noble gesture. Following deeds, to be carried out during the entire rest of his turbulent life, entitled Thraco-Dacian population to actually divinize her new King while still alive, up to granting him a DEMIGOD STATUS and the legendary nickname of "DECEBALUS" (that is "BRAVEHEART", or "THE HEROIC ONE") for posterity. It is important to underline, here, how Dacians were always going to battle under their "Wolf" 's banner (having a Wolf's head ending through a Dragon's tail), characteristic for the previous Thracian armies as well; meanwhile, Romans themselves were fighting to the glory of their Empire's capital, ROME, which is said to have been founded, in its turn, under a "She-Wolf" sign (as being "certified" in the "ROMULUS AND REMUS BROTHERS" 'LEGEND), by some survivors of the mythical Troja fortress' downfall, who would have been then guided up to the "Seven Hills" (Tybrus River)' narrow valley by one of them, AENEAS, actually a... Thracian himself! Thus, Rome itself, an "Eternal Fortress" symbolizing this "new civilization" 's very beginnings, misteriously bears a NAME whose origins still require clarification. Neither the exact year of the City's founding is quite definite until nowadays, nor does its name seem to have originated from Romulus', as the legend which has been kept alive only through the Roman historian Titus Livius' writings states to us (specifically quoting, "CONDITA URBES, CONDITORIS NOMINE APPELLATA", in Latin), but mainly from the capital's geographical location , which was situated next to the River Tybrus, leading our logistics straight towards ancient Thracian, or maybe Ethruscian words "RAU" ("river", "running water") and "RUMON" ("son of Rome"). Whereas confronting these two ancient denominations, the entire "Romulus" legedary tale looks to have rather been "borrowed" by Titus Livius from even older Pelasgian (Thracian) civilization's myths, and where the Romulus and Remus twin brothers appear to have had their descent. As a result, since both Dacian and Roman people were speaking already an almost common language, and should we put aside, as well, the years' multitude to pass over, isn't it an irony of Fate that today's Romans should be called "Italians" whereas ourselves, Pelasgian-Thracians, respectively named "Roman(ian)s"?...


If we had now to return analysing the valiant "DIURAPNEUS-DECEBALUS" ' Destiny, since he WAS "GREAT DACIA" 'S LAST KING, it would be useful to show precisely the fact that this one succeeds in remaking both his country's territorial and national unities and strenghtening its military strike forces, all these without neglecting to cautiously conclude several Treaties of political alliance with neighbouring nations, as to ensure, to the freshly-enacted DACIAN CONFEDERATION, its recovered boundaries' national security. These boundaries were to be, later on, sketched in a written form showing his personal interest by Ptolemaeus himself, as ranging from Carpathian Mountains until the Nister River (the ancient Tyros)' path and, from there, up to the wide Danube. Other Geta blood-related tribal clusters, scattered throughout Eastern Moldavia up to the other side of Bug River, namely Iazhigs and Roxolans, would very soon join at will this Confederation which dared to oppose, moreover to defy Rome openly. On the internal level, out of King Decebalus' times dates THE MAGNIFICENT ARCHITECTURAL COMPLEX FROM SARMISEGETUZA, Decebalus' main fortress (in the Orastie Mountains), that includes, among other touristic attractions nowadays, a Sacred Premise, an andezith Solar disc for time's measuring, several Holy quadrilateral Sanctuaries, as well as the nearby Metallurgical Work-shops at Gradistea Muscelului.


Whereas Decebalus' politico-economical construction works were feverishly, buy resolutely carried out, in Rome, Domitianus' "establishment" was gradually getting very displeased, even sickened with his "grand style" show-offs, perpetual orgies and irresponsible Treasury's spending, to speak nothing about his opened despotism or the newly-born Christianity's savage repression campaigns. Thus, on September 18-th, 96 A.D., Domitianus would be assassinated by one of his own Pretorian Guard's members, while in the killing's aftermath an elder Senator, MARCUS COCCEIUS NERVA, was promptly procclaimed as a new Emperor by successful conspirators from the Army's Staff. Feeling, however, much too old and weakened for a "top job", Nerva, who didn't care to procreate through his entire life, was soon going to officially adopt an already "grown up" son and future "leadership associate" at the same time, by choosing one of the Roman Legions' "raising stars", one of the Army's most capable, handsome young Consuls, respectively MARCUS ULPIUS TRAJANUS. Not long afterwards, on October 29-th, 97 A.D., the already "acting-Emperor" Trajan, after completing some victorious campaigns against Germanic tribes, was to get angry with "the opened contempt which Dacians fostered upon Romans" (as says the Roman historian Plinius "the Younger"), deciding therefore to "beef up" his Moesia Inferior troops, build a new Roman military camp near Barbosi-Galatzi, consolidate all the previously conquered Pontic cities' old fortifications up to Tyros (Nister) River and to dispose, moreover, the completion of Southern Danube shore's ancient highway until Cazane mountain defile (this last action is to be confirmed by a so-called "Tabula Trajana" inscription). Yet, the major reason which was to ultimately reignite a decisive war against Dacians proves to have been the country's huge gold and silver reserves, and the possession of a thesaurus which made the Dacian Land look like an ancient "El Dorado", or "California" to the eyes of financially-troubled leaders of the Roman Empire (for all the Empire's mercenary soldiers could launch a wide-scale mutiny, should they not have been paid in time- besides their military campaigns' preys). Following his plans, Trajan would add to the 9 Roman Legions stationed within Middle and Inferior Danube's area yet another 6, respectively 4 brought from German provinces and other 2 specially created on the occasion of the First Dacian War's imminent outburst, on March 25-th, 101 A.D. During that day, Emperor Trajan leaves Rome to personally take command upon some 150,000 soldiers in arms, ready to conquer... WHAT? A country of so-called "illiterates", having "neither a literary language nor a cultural background of their own", "a land with very small population"- as a few "friendly", "objective" historians struggle to maintain for quite a while??... Should we have been so "few", why would then Trajan have needed a multitude of Legions, with hundreds of thousands soldiers, to "kneel" us?!... And should we have been yet so "poor", why on Earth have they kept on coming to us?!... For a fact, no later than during the summer of year 101 A.D., the Roman Legions, led by Trajan, reach Lederata (today's Rama) to pursue their march towards Acidava (nowadays, Varadita).


King Decebalus, one of the most gifted Dacian military strategists to have ever existed since his late predecessor, the Great Emperor Burebista, allows the invaders' breaking through until the Banat Region, whereas concentrating most of his warriors within the same narrow pass of Tapae-Bucova, where, after a very bloody yet undecided open confrontation, Trajan finally claims a modest victory. Still, this victory would open Romans' way towards advancing up to the Hatsegului Zone, situated at the proximity of Dacian nucleus hidden in the Sureanu Massif. Meanwhile, thanks to diversionist tactics fastly organized by Decebalus, who had also hurried to conclude further alliances with the Burs, Basthorns and Roxolans' tribes, by crossing unexpectedly the Danube in order to launch a series of surprise attacks upon new Roman settlements, located between the Danube's curve and Pontus Euxinus (today's Black Sea), Trajan would be compelled to withdraw a part of his Legions from Dacia, so as to be capable of pushing back both Dacians and their South Dobrudja's fierce allies. Much later (in 109 A.D.), in order to remind future generations about this stage of his military campaigns, the Roman Emperor would erect, on the two former battleground locations, "the Adamclisi Monument" and the so-called "Tropaeum Trajani".


Throughout the spring of 102 A.D. year, Trajan resumes his offensive even more powerfully, traverses the whole Muntenia Region reaching Bran's mountainous defile, where, in spite of Dacians' desperate yet heroic efforts, Decebalus is being defeated. As a result of the following "Peace Treaty", the proud King was now to face some important territorial losses, among those the Banat Region, Hatsegului Zone, Oltenia Region and Southern "chunks" from both Muntenia and Moldavia. Back in Rome, the "Eternal City", a triumphant Emperor Trajan would be granted the honorary title of "DACICUS" ( in Latin, "DACIA' S CONQUEROR") by the Senate and would take care, afterwards, to consolidate his new "DANUBE WALL" with plenty of additional military forces. It is also assumed that, between the years 103-105 A.D., with the reputed Syrian-born architect Apollodorus from Damascus' contribution, he would have ordered the construction of a legendary Stone Bridge over the Danube River, near Drobeta- today's Turnu Severin. Apollodorus from Damascus was truthfully a genius, the greatest architect of his Era; it was still him to whom the project of "Trajan's Colums" in Rome, depicting through numerous spiralled bas-relief aspects from the Two Dacian Campaigns (101-102 A.D., respectively 105-106 A.D.), would be later assigned. He is said to have even written a book, detailing the Bridge's construction technique that had been used towards its masterful achievement, book that would have, alas, been lost for posterity... Nevertheless, its content appears familiar to a Roman historian, Dio Cassius, though this one doesn't bother to do more than mainly describing in detail the Bridge's aspect. Generally, every bridge's great architectural complex bears always some hidden symbolistic within, usually a significant testimony of as many courageous, perpetual human efforts directed to do away with obstacles which "Mother Nature" so oftenly lays out on our Life's paths. A bridge's main purpose is to facilitate the communication bonds' safety, between one shore and another... Yet, the so-called "Apollodorus' masterpiece" looks to have actually been meant to ease our country's robbing, the Dacian people's subjugation and subsequently falling down into slavery, to say nothing about facilitating the merge of no less than 14 % from our sacred territories with this opressive, geographically amalgamated Roman Empire... Facts which are still shown, by some of our "historians", as being absolutely necessary to a noble, "CIVILIZING PROCESS" purpose, intended from the Romans' side. And if such naked agression, robbing, humiliation, slavery can still be depicted by these like some "civilizing process", why shouldn't we name Russian Bolsheviks "civilizers" as well, for they have also "civilized" us intensively through the last half-century, just enough to leave us brain-washed and poorer than ever... A same approach would go for... Adolf Hitler himself and his Nazi fellows, who, after finding out we were "hesitating" to join World War II 's already belligerant forces on their side, had quickly "civilized" us through "generously" distributing some of our country's territories to neighbours: namely, Transylvania to fascist Hungary, their ally, Bessarabia and Bukovina to their still "friends-to-be" Russians, a Southern region called "the Quadrilater" to Bulgarians, compelling thus (what was left of) Romania to become "friendly" to the "civilizers". Yet, even nowadays, some still grumble at our turning weapons' act performed against Germans back then, in August 1944!...


Trajan's Second, and final military campaign versus the heroic King Decebalus was going to start in the summer of year 105, A.D., when (again!) the Roman Emperor in person arrives at Drobeta-Turnu Severin, ready for war. It looks necessary to open, here, a brief parenthesis, so as to mention that, meanwhile, a failed assassination attempt against Trajan himself had happened in Rome. Should the outcome of an ultimately "successful" coup have changed, in any ways, our life-style, our contemporary Destiny?... Would we have looked, somehow, differently?... Would we have spoken another language?... All these questions will remain, forever, unanswered.


Let's resume our narration by going back to the Roman Armies whom, rather longing for all the Dacian gold and other riches than from some intimate need of acquiring fame, are now marching straight towards Sarmisegetuza while splitting themseves to follow three strategic directions: the first Legions' group advances along the Cerna River's valley (across such places where old Thracian legends had told about the Phoenix Bird itself coming to die from Northern Egypt; this mythical creature would hold in its beak an ancient Pelasgian emblem, while in its claws an Egg from the ashes of which, somewhere high on Cerna's mountainous peaks, the Phoenix Bird was said to be born again). Therefore, the first Army group is able to get across Hatsegului zone and reach to the Dacian fortresses of Costesti, Blidaru and Piatra Rosie, which are totally destroyed. The second Legions' group climbs, from Jiu River's valley, up to the Roman military camp at Bumbesti, penetrating then within the Sureanu Massif through a successful breaking near Banita. Finally, the third Legions' group, led by Trajan himself, marches from Drobeta through Sucidava and Romula, crosses Olt River's valley up to "Castra Trajana" (nowadays, the Simbotin- Vilcea region), reaches Tilisca and, then, Capilna. All remaining Roman troops, starting their offensive from Moesia Inferior, pass through Bran, Bratocea and Oituz.


A decisive battle for SARMISEGETUZA REGIA would take place, however, only at the beginning of 106 A.D. 's summer, with numerous, veteran Roman Legions, having plenty of campaign experience, involved in the assault; among them, "ADRIUTIX" the II-nd and "FLAVIA FELIX" the IV-th, enforced also by a detachment ("vexillatio", in Latin) from the VI-th Legion "FERRATA". The desperate Dacian fighters succeed in pushing back a first attack, but Romans manage then to destroy the fortress' sole pipeline- cutting thus Dacia's capital short of water supply. Soon afterwards the whole fortress is set on fire, whereas Romans break in and destroy almost the entire fortification line, including savagely cutting off each pillar on the Holy Premise's Sanctuary and killing old Vezina, Decebalus' Great Priest. Still, the war rages on, for many warriors had succeeded to escape through a secret passage outside Sarmisegetuza, at the last moment. Unfortunately, because of Bacilis' treason (namely, a former Dacian King's counselor), the Romans would be able to find DECEBALUS' THESAURUS, that had been carefully hidden UNDER SARGETIA RIVER' S BED (as its flowing waters had been deviated while burrying the treasure). This immense hoard would be later estimated, by Jerome Carcopino, to include no less than 165,500 kilos of gold and 331,000 of silver. A last fight with the Dacian King's Army remains would be held at Porolissum (or Moigrad).


Not being afraid of Death, and even laughing at it had longtime been a most essential Thraco-Dacian character feature, deeply rooted within every warrior's spirit. That's why it has been said they were going towards Death happier than on any other journey, by knowing it was the only proper way to acceed their God Zamolxis' Underworld Kingdom and be among the other heroes enjoying a body and soul's complete immortality, granted to them by the same Supreme God. Whereas the "Bravehearted" King Decebalus, surrounded now by only a hand of resolute fighters,was retreating through mountain hidden passes and virgin forests on the horse's gallop, still hoping to reach unoccupied lands from where to assemble a new Army and start the avenging battle, he would be ambushed by the Roman cavalry on pursuit, leaded by a Decurion named Tiberius Claudius Maximus. Since the Zamolxian Cult was not only tolerating, but yet praising and promising other-world rewards to suicide, as final means of relief for the ones worstly striked by Fate, after a last, fierce struggle Decebalus' faithfuls take their own lives, one by one. And, as Roman horsemen are also ready to capture him, the ill-fated Dacian King in jeopardy fulfils, in his turn, an untainted Destiny by killing himself. Thus, instead of making DECEBALUS a life-long prisoner in a public cage, the invaders were only able to cut off the "DEAD LION" 's head and right hand, in order to show them in Rome. His GREAT DEATH SCENE is one of the most impressive bas-reliefs, to be long remembered, on "Trajan's Column".


We have been ultimately crushed, defeated, but... IN NO WAY EXTINGUISHED AS A NATION! We may be proud to have had Decebalus!! What about Emperor Trajan?!... What might we have in common with the latter?! That's still left to be seen in the future!

[Magic Man]

Dacia didnt really do much in the time period.


Or afterwards.


Or now.

[Dan Rares]

The Romans where the first faction who could beat them and by the way Roma conquered just 18% of dacia ....

But this wasn't the point of the thread


Regards from Romania .

[Dan Rares]

Yes but they do it also for the Dacian gold ... it's known that after Dacia was conquered they celebrate in Roma for 200 and more days(I can't remember the right number of days) and anyone who come in Roma gets free food and free drink also the romans build up Columna Trajana which is really expensive . And after the conquer several years Roma had their finance secured .

[Arges]

A DACIAN'S PRAYER
by Mihai Eminescu, 1879


When death did not exist, nor yet eternity,
Before the seed of life had first set living free,
When yesterday was nothing, and time had not begun,
And one included all things, and all was less than one,
When sun and moon and sky, the stars, the spinning earth
Were still part of the things that had not come to birth
And You quite lonely stood... I ask myself with awe,
Who is this mighty God we bow ourselves before.

Ere yet the Gods existed already He was God
And out of endless water with fire the lightning shed;
He gave the Gods their reason, and joy to earth did bring,
He brought to man forgiveness, and set salvation's spring.
Lift up your hearts in worship, a song of praise en freeing,
He is the death of dying, the primal birth of being.

To him I owe my eyes that I can see the dawn,
To him I owe my heart wherein is pity born;
When ever I hear the tempest, I hear him pass along
Midst multitude of voices raised in a holy song,
And yet of his great mercy I beg still one behest:
That I at last be taken to his eternal rest.

Be curses on the fellow who would my praise acclaim.
But blessings upon him who does my soul defame;
Believe no matter whom who slanders my renown,
Give power to the arm that lifts to strike me down
Let him upon the earth above all others loom
Who steals away the stone that lies upon my tomb.

Hunted by humanity, let me my whole life fly
Until I feel from weeping my very eyes are dry;
Let everyone detest me no matter where I go,
Until from persecution myself I do not know;
Let misery and horror my heart transform to stone,
That I may hate my mother, in whose love I have grown;
Till hating and deceiving for me with love will vie,
And I forget my suffering, and learn at last to die.

Dishonoured let me perish, an outcast among men;
My body less than worthy to block the gutter then,
And may, o God of mercy, a crown of diamonds wear
The one who gives my heart the hungry dogs to tear,
While for the one who in my face does callous fling a cloud
In your eternal kingdom reserve a place, o God.

Thus only, gracious Father, can I requitance give
That you from your great bounty vouched me the joy to live
To gain eternal blessings my head I do not bow,
But rather ask that you in hating compassion show.
Till comes at last the evening, your breath will mine efface,
And into endless nothing I go, and leave no trace.

Translated by

Corneliu M. Popescu

[bobbin]

Dacia didnt really do much in the time period.


Or afterwards.


Or now.

Right........

[Dan Rares]

Yup sure dacia didn't do anything that's the reason that Rome was fearing them right ?

In 304, Galerius [1], which found that many inhabitants of the Roman Empire where Dacians and with them conquer Persia agree with the senate of Rome, decreed cancellation of the Roman name for the great empire and they named empire Dacian Empire . This lasted until the year 312. The name of the Empire was continued by Constantine the Great for 36 years and then Justinian for three decades.

The First Dacian War.The Causes

-Trajan’s intention was to erase the shame of the Treaty between the Emperor Domitian and the Dacians.
-Pilinu refers to the lack of respect of the Dacians for the Roman Empire, proved by the raiding of the Danube Roman provinces.
-Criton claims that Decebal humiliated the Roman Empire through the peace from 89 AD. Decebal used the treaty to strengthen his military force, accepting deserters from the Roman army. The Dacians also strengthened their fortresses and built efficient war machines. The Dacian army was prepared by ex-Roman military forces, and was dependent at that time upon Roman fighting techniques because of that.

Political and military causes

-The Dacian state was becoming too powerful, and the Romans could no longer ensure the safety of the Danube frontier from the Dacians.
-Trajan had intentions to build within eastern Europe a stronger latinity, emulating the one created in western Europe by Caesar and Augustus. Dacia was to be the vanguard within the barbarian area of eastern Europe.
-Another reason was to protect the Balkan roman provinces from migrations. Trajan didn’t want the entire eastern empire to be influenced by the greek culture, and hoped to create a powerful eastern latin-speaking empire.
-The Romans wished to conquer all the civilised states close to their borders and the Dacians were a part of that collective.The Dacian state was the main civilised kingdom from eastern Europe which was still independent.
-Trajan could not launch an offensive against the Parthians before he could be sure that the threat of the Dacian state was elliminated.

Economical Causes

-The gold, mines, and lands of the Dacians were the most important key elements in Trajan’s determination to conquer Dacia. He needed them in order to successfuly sustain another campaign that he was planning.
-The possability of conquering new territories meant that a large number of the inhabitants could benefit from the advantages offered by colonisation.

[Brapbrapbap]

They feared them the same way they feared everyone who wasn't Roman.


They where political enemies.

[Magic Man]

One comment about how inconsequential Romania was during the time period and you rise to the bait instantly.

Oh, Balkan people, how you do amuse me.

[bobbin]

I think they just don't appreciate smartarse comments from people who don't know what they're talking about.

[Dan Rares]

One comment about how inconsequential Romania was during the time period and you rise to the bait instantly.

Oh, Balkan people, how you do amuse me.

You make me laugh ... Romania is not in Balkans try to understand this and after that we can have a talk


Regards from Romania .

[REDrake]

Maybe geographically not Balkans, but culturally and socially we are from there. And I really don't see anything wrong about it. To be Balkanic means first of all, greek influence. And from Greece all the modern concepts came to be. Like liberty or democracy.

As for that part with Dacian Empire, while many modern romanians are thrilled about it (and I can see why), we must keep an objective eye towards information coming presumably from Historia Augusta, which is unreliable at best.

[Dan Rares]

Maybe geographically not Balkans, but culturally and socially we are from there. And I really don't see anything wrong about it. To be Balkanic means first of all, greek influence. And from Greece all the modern concepts came to be. Like liberty or democracy.

As for that part with Dacian Empire, while many modern romanians are thrilled about it (and I can see why), we must keep an objective eye towards information coming presumably from Historia Augusta, which is unreliable at best.

Right but ethnographic ( i write it right ? ) is diferent from the rest of the Balkans . And Geographically we're not in Blakans so it's right to say that Romania is not In Blakans .

[Moros]

They play great Balkanesque music in Romania (Balkan music is just great), have friendly people, pretty girls and they like beer aswell. Personally I don't see what's not to like about Romania?

[Dan Rares]

I was starting this thread with Decebal and now we go to nice girls , music and beer nice ...

[Duke Jester]

Well there we go.. . I once spend a nice holiday in Romania in the early 80ies. Although visiting the Eastern Bloc in those days was something suspicious to do (maybe my father was a spy?!... maybe I should ask? ).
Can´t remember pretty lassies and cool beer, but the locals seemed to be quite fond of chess (a great plus in my opinion). Anyway Romania is a vital and interesting part of Europe and our globe (since now I know there are pretty lassies there – not the only reason though ) – hasn´t really got anything to do with this thread, but anyway.

REDrake: And from Greece all the modern concepts came to be. Like liberty or democracy.

Right you are. And I would want to add that also Germanic/Scandinavian and Celtic tribes/peoples (and probably many, many other „barbarian“ peoples and cultures all over the world) had a quasi democratic (tribal) system in which the free and weapon-ready males were able of choosing their (temporary) leaders and able to determine their (tribal) policies.

[martin-bs]

I am posting that in response to all nationalistic comments and posts written by natives from the Balkans (Romanians included and please don't get me started on another pointless argument whether Romania is in this group or not).

Before writing or posting anything more, very very please read some scientific works in the field. When I say scientific that would mean not written by your compatriots.

In Bulgaria, for example, I am aware of evidences of systematic fornication of historical finds (Archeologist with shovels making expansions of slavic dwellings in order to present them as not less developed by the other contemporary to them groups in the region), as well as of systematic destruction of evidences (The archeologists discover 2 royal thracian tombs. They throw out the pottery and all other not so valuable ("value" as "market value") finds and take all other mainly golden artifacts away in dozens of bags. The result: several finds exhibited in museums, many happy collectors). How can you trust any works written by people driven by either sick nationalistic motives or even worse - purely materialistic ones. Let me save you the suspense - Bulgaria is by no means special case in the Balkans. Just listen to what an average Romanian or Macedonian knows about history (I have no disrespect towards the people for I rather like them , but towards the way history is taught to them).

I hope that would be the last time anybody writes a comment about the historic "science" in the Balkans and tries to bring evidences via a 19th century Romanian poem . Dan Rares, please don't embarrass us all! We have already turned ourselves to the laughing stock of the EB community.

[Anubis88]

The definition of the Balkans is far to complex to discuss here; I know, i had to read a book, 300 pages long for an exam, only about how the definition of the name Balkans evolved, and you're all right, and all wrong, depending on what are your arguments... There's no clear definition of Balkans...

Back on topic;

Who do the Romanians consider a greater king, Burebista or Decebalus?

[Dan Rares]

I am posting that in response to all nationalistic comments and posts written by natives from the Balkans (Romanians included and please don't get me started on another pointless argument whether Romania is in this group or not).

Before writing or posting anything more, very very please read some scientific works in the field. When I say scientific that would mean not written by your compatriots.

In Bulgaria, for example, I am aware of evidences of systematic fornication of historical finds (Archeologist with shovels making expansions of slavic dwellings in order to present them as not less developed by the other contemporary to them groups in the region), as well as of systematic destruction of evidences (The archeologists discover 2 royal thracian tombs. They throw out the pottery and all other not so valuable ("value" as "market value") finds and take all other mainly golden artifacts away in dozens of bags. The result: several finds exhibited in museums, many happy collectors). How can you trust any works written by people driven by either sick nationalistic motives or even worse - purely materialistic ones. Let me save you the suspense - Bulgaria is by no means special case in the Balkans. Just listen to what an average Romanian or Macedonian knows about history (I have no disrespect towards the people for I rather like them , but towards the way history is taught to them).

I hope that would be the last time anybody writes a comment about the historic "science" in the Balkans and tries to bring evidences via a 19th century Romanian poem . Dan Rares, please don't embarrass us all! We have already turned ourselves to the laughing stock of the EB community.

In my intial post i didn't want do discuss if Romania is in Balkans or not i just wanted to put in the light an page of history just this you miss understand me


It wasn't me who post The Dacian Prayer of Mihai Eminescu who is a genius by the way ...

By the way I can coment also the way is taught history to Rusian and Hungarians .... but it has no sense ...

[Dan Rares]

The definition of the Balkans is far to complex to discuss here; I know, i had to read a book, 300 pages long for an exam, only about how the definition of the name Balkans evolved, and you're all right, and all wrong, depending on what are your arguments... There's no clear definition of Balkans...

Back on topic;

Who do the Romanians consider a greater king, Burebista or Decebalus?

Well Burebista managed to make Dacia to reach it maxim Size .... sadly he was killed when Caesar was asasineted by Romans . When Tarabostes heared about Caesar asasination they think that Roma is no more an Danger and they killed their king just to have more freedom on their davas .

Decebal is the man who regain the territorie of Dacian (like 80% of them or more i don't know exactly any case the kingdom was a lil'bit smaller than Burebista one's )
but he make from Dacian a very good army .

Well to answer to your question I don't know to me both of them are equal .