Who would win in a war, Andorra or San Marino?

**Kurtz** · August 01, 2010, 10:47 PM

I was thinking today, which of these two great nations with rich history and culture would win in a war?

**Darkhorse** · August 02, 2010, 01:16 AM

Shouldn't you be able to tell me Paul?

Andorra, who's protection is guaranteed by both France and Spain? Against San Marino who have their own military, but Italy also guarantee's defence I think. Hmm, tougher than Monaco vs Lichtenstein

**RO Citizen** · August 02, 2010, 02:33 AM

Monaco would win, because of it's economical strenght :p

But at the OP question, I'd say San Marino, just because I love this unit:

Guard of The Rock

**Treize** · August 06, 2010, 07:56 AM

Yep, San Marino has paramilitary units and ceremonial units. They could be armed.

But what does Andorra have?

Andorra has a small army and an internal police force with around 140 police officers. All able-bodied men who own firearms must serve, without remuneration, in the army, which is unique in that all of its men are treated as officers. The army has not fought for more than 700 years, and its main responsibility is to present the Andorran flag at official ceremonies.

So a (very) small army and 140 police officers?
Or is that combined?

San Marino would win...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:San-mar-mil.JPG
San Marino should give their Rock Guard some modern rifles to compliment their pistols and ceremonial rifles. And the Crossbow guard should be trained with rifles aswell.

**Darkhorse** · August 06, 2010, 09:25 AM

Yes but Andorra's defence falls under the responsibility of the French and Spanish. (Then again, if you attacked through the Ardenne, around Siesta time, you'd be fine!

)

On an interesting note, once upon a time way back in the 1970's, Andorra's defence budget was the equivalent of £2.

**wowbanger** · August 06, 2010, 12:38 PM

Another point to note is that Andorra managed to survive a war against Imperial Germany that lasted 44 years, when they were missed off the Treaty of Versailles. Peace was only formally declared in 1958.

Don't underestimate the power of Andorra.

**Poach** · August 06, 2010, 02:59 PM

The militaries of France and Spain fighting the militaries of Italy (assuming the nations honour the call to arms), the result isn't in question.

I think the Spanish and Italian militaries are tied in last place for most shockingly bad European military, but as the French are present Andorra would win this one easily.

No friendly militaries, French mercenaries > Italian mercenaries (assuming the Spanish don't make too much of a mess of things)

**Kurtz** · August 08, 2010, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by Poach

The militaries of France and Spain fighting the militaries of Italy (assuming the nations honour the call to arms), the result isn't in question.

I think the Spanish and Italian militaries are tied in last place for most shockingly bad European military, but as the French are present Andorra would win this one easily.

No friendly militaries, French mercenaries > Italian mercenaries (assuming the Spanish don't make too much of a mess of things)

France would be to occupied fighting Switzerland over Liechtenstein and Monaco.

**Valandur** · August 11, 2010, 09:11 AM

San Marino's population are Italians, equals instant loss.

**Kurtz** · August 12, 2010, 03:20 AM

Originally Posted by Valandur

San Marino's population are Italians, equals instant loss.

But San Marino survived the the Napoleonic conquests, the Italian unification, and both World Wars.

Plus Andorra has a French population.

**florin87** · August 12, 2010, 08:52 AM

it would be the first war in history where both sides lose, at the same time. the french would probably surrender the moment the first italian soldier steps over the border. that would leave the italians free to defeat themselves. i expect the spanish to sleep through the war, and to wake up at the end shouting "que, what happened?"

but serriously. andorra has good natural defenses. all you need are a couple of guys with snipers and good-bye san marino army. unless they can do para-drops in those uniforms.

**Valandur** · August 13, 2010, 03:43 AM

Originally Posted by Paul the Octopus

But San Marino survived the the Napoleonic conquests, the Italian unification, and both World Wars.

Plus Andorra has a French population.

French > Italian.
They both suck but the battered French Army was still able to defeat a Fresh Italian Army in 1940 in Southern France.

**Poach** · August 13, 2010, 09:04 AM

The French somewhat unfairly have a reputation as military failures, in my opinion. Yes, the Second World War was a disaster for them but that aside (and even then the French Army made a decent fight of it considering their situation) they've been a military heavyweight in Europe for centuries.

The Italians, on the other hand... After the Roman Empire reached its height, Italian martial prowess nosedived.

**Valandur** · August 13, 2010, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by Poach

The French somewhat unfairly have a reputation as military failures, in my opinion. Yes, the Second World War was a disaster for them but that aside (and even then the French Army made a decent fight of it considering their situation) they've been a military heavyweight in Europe for centuries.

The Italians, on the other hand... After the Roman Empire reached its height, Italian martial prowess nosedived.

Take it from the Poach, guys.

**Treize** · August 19, 2010, 10:55 AM

Italy and Spain both have proper militaries.
Some of the few that haven't destroyed their convential warfare capabilities in favour of COIN capabilities.

As I said San Marino should buy rifles to arm the Crossbow Corps and the Rock Guard.

**Last Roman** · August 19, 2010, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by Poach

The French somewhat unfairly have a reputation as military failures, in my opinion. Yes, the Second World War was a disaster for them but that aside (and even then the French Army made a decent fight of it considering their situation) they've been a military heavyweight in Europe for centuries.

The Italians, on the other hand... After the Roman Empire reached its height, Italian martial prowess nosedived.

except beating the Holy Roman Empire multiple times, not to mention Italian's notoriety of being sought after mercenaries. You can't base a nation's martial prowess off of 50 years of history, especially one's as long as Italy's.

**Poach** · August 25, 2010, 10:20 AM

Indeed, LR, but in the face of large states (eg French Revolutionary Wars), their divided nature worked against them. Swiss mercenaries were equally sought after, and the Swiss military has always been a decent fighting force, but we hardly regard them as a military powerhouse, do we?

After the Empire fell, the Italians ceased to be a power of any major military importance until the First World War. In the Second World War, their performance was arguably far worse than that of France.

IPA: Many militaries have converted to COIN structures, but I know of few that have abandoned conventional warfare capability. Which militaries are you referring to?

**Treize** · August 30, 2010, 02:16 PM

Danmark, Belgium, some eastern european countries more or less and we are getting very close. Oh and Austria, they have 15 fighters.

**Ojf** · September 04, 2010, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by Last Roman

except beating the Holy Roman Empire multiple times, not to mention Italian's notoriety of being sought after mercenaries. You can't base a nation's martial prowess off of 50 years of history, especially one's as long as Italy's.

there's a reason why italy produced the best armour in the middle ages, why? simple, because they were scardey cats that needed big strong armour to hide behind