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Thread: Need help with Burmese sources on the Ming-Burmese conflicts of 1580s-90s

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    RollingWave's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Need help with Burmese sources on the Ming-Burmese conflicts of 1580s-90s

    I have a question of source here, my main recent interest is the Imjin war , and one of the things that have bothered me a bit when I looked is this...

    In the history of the Ming, it notes that generals like Liu Ting and Deng Zhi Long were also fighting the Burmese on and off roughly around the same period starting from roughly 1583. looking at the Burmese history this mean it must have been the Taungoo Dynasty under King Nanda Bayin ... yet I have a hard time finding a Burmese confirmation of this conflict.

    Is there anyone here who's more familar with the history of the Taungoo dynasty that could help me out?

    From the history of the Ming... chapter 247 (the biography of Liu Ting and Deng Zhi Long)


    :
    十年冬,緬甸犯永昌、騰越,巡撫劉世曾請濟師。明年春,擢綎遊擊將軍,署騰沖守備事。
    "in the 10th year of Wanli (1582), Burmese armies attack the Yunan border, Liu Ting was promoted to defend it"


    十一年閏二月,緬甸犯雲南。詔移子龍永昌。木邦部耿馬奸人罕虔與嶽鳳同為逆,說緬酋莽應裏內侵
    "In Feburary of the 11th year (1583) , Burmese attack Yunan, Zhi Long was assigned to defend the area."

    From chapter 20 (the biography of Wanli emperor)

    十一年春正月壬戌,敕嚴邊備。閏二月甲子,俺答子乞慶哈襲封順義王。緬甸寇永昌。
    "In Feburary of the 11th year (1583), Burmese attack the border"

    十九年春正月,頃甸寇永昌、騰越。
    "In January of the 19th year (1591) Burmese attack the Yunan border"

    So it seem like the Ming records were pretty confident and consistent about the orgins of the invaders. But I have not been able to find much of a confirmation source from the Burmese side, though obviously that might be simply due to me not being able to actually read the Burmese records and there are comparatively fewer translated stuff on the net regarding the subject.

    Anyone can help out here?
    Last edited by RollingWave; July 26, 2010 at 10:35 PM.
    1180, an unprecedented period of peace and prosperity in East Asia, it's technology and wealth is the envy of the world. But soon conflict will engulf the entire region with great consequences and lasting effects for centuries to come, not just for this region, but the entire known world, when one man, one people, unites.....

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    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Need help with Burmese sources on the Ming-Burmese conflicts of 1580s-90s

    The campaign was conducted by King Bayinnaung, who is best to remember of conquering Siam. It seems it was a well known event in South-East Asia history...
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    RollingWave's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Need help with Burmese sources on the Ming-Burmese conflicts of 1580s-90s

    The timeline seems a bit off here, Bayinnaung died in 1581, but the Ming records mostly came up from 1582-92 range. which was the reign of his son.
    1180, an unprecedented period of peace and prosperity in East Asia, it's technology and wealth is the envy of the world. But soon conflict will engulf the entire region with great consequences and lasting effects for centuries to come, not just for this region, but the entire known world, when one man, one people, unites.....

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    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Need help with Burmese sources on the Ming-Burmese conflicts of 1580s-90s

    Quote Originally Posted by RollingWave View Post
    The timeline seems a bit off here, Bayinnaung died in 1581, but the Ming records mostly came up from 1582-92 range. which was the reign of his son.
    The problem is that Burma was fell into a civil war status after 1581, so it probably become more difficult to actually find out which party launched the attack. I would check up our school library and see what I can find.
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Cameron is midway between Black Rage and .. European Union ..

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    RollingWave's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Need help with Burmese sources on the Ming-Burmese conflicts of 1580s-90s

    didn't they have a massive war with Thailand around this same period? (the 1580s-90s) so might it have been a spill over from that war?
    1180, an unprecedented period of peace and prosperity in East Asia, it's technology and wealth is the envy of the world. But soon conflict will engulf the entire region with great consequences and lasting effects for centuries to come, not just for this region, but the entire known world, when one man, one people, unites.....

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