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Thread: What if the Soviet Union still exists?

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    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: What if the Soviet Union still exists?

    No EU, does that sound great??
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    Poach's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: What if the Soviet Union still exists?

    Why would the EU not form? NATO would still be a force of great importance in the world but the EU might still form in some version or another. We also would likely not be in Afghanistan, the USSR would not abide by that. Iraq too, may never have happened.

    I think, eventually, the two sides would have stopped staring down each other's gun barrels and started better diplomatic relations.

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    Jingles's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: What if the Soviet Union still exists?

    ^This.

    There would likely have been no Iraq war, certainly no invasion of Afghanistan. Quite probably no 9/11 either. The Soviet Union would resemble a bigger and meaner version of China today. Gorbachev's plan for a looser Union would have gone through, along with the 500 day plan to transform the Soviet economy to a market based one like China's. With the change to a market economy, better relations with the West would have been only a matter of time.

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    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: What if the Soviet Union still exists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Poach View Post
    Why would the EU not form? NATO would still be a force of great importance in the world but the EU might still form in some version or another. We also would likely not be in Afghanistan, the USSR would not abide by that. Iraq too, may never have happened.

    I think, eventually, the two sides would have stopped staring down each other's gun barrels and started better diplomatic relations.
    I don't believe EU would form when half of its current members cannot join. It may, however, has two groups of European organizations exist, one head by NATO members and one head by Warsaw Pact members.
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Cameron is midway between Black Rage and .. European Union ..

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    Zhangir's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: What if the Soviet Union still exists?

    I don't believe EU would form when half of its current members cannot join. It may, however, has two groups of European organizations exist, one head by NATO members and one head by Warsaw Pact members.
    EU started long before Soviet Union collapsed. It wasn't called EU, but it was around since the 1950s.

    w would our world be different?
    Now How exactly it would survive?

    Assuming the version of Jingle_Bombs, we would have a Market Economy like China, and a political structure just like the old Soviet Union, but with a bit less censorship (maybe a lot less, who knows?) and some more freedom of speech, assembly, pluralism, etc.

    Well, if you ask me, We, in the former USSR, would be a lot better off than we are today.
    Let's face it, Russia, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, etc., etc. are all climbing back from a massive fall in the 1990s. If the system survived, there would be no fall, and we would be growing.
    That's just a very simplistic analysis, and I am speaking on general terms. Some things would have to be sacrificed, but on the whole the Former SU would live better, if you ask me.
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    Default Re: What if the Soviet Union still exists?

    if the soviets still exists

    there's no 11 sept event

    ben laden would be a good guy to the world not a terrorist
    and the conquerer of stan (central asia) empire

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    Jingles's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: What if the Soviet Union still exists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangir View Post
    EU started long before Soviet Union collapsed. It wasn't called EU, but it was around since the 1950s.


    Now How exactly it would survive?

    Assuming the version of Jingle_Bombs, we would have a Market Economy like China, and a political structure just like the old Soviet Union, but with a bit less censorship (maybe a lot less, who knows?) and some more freedom of speech, assembly, pluralism, etc.

    Well, if you ask me, We, in the former USSR, would be a lot better off than we are today.
    Let's face it, Russia, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, etc., etc. are all climbing back from a massive fall in the 1990s. If the system survived, there would be no fall, and we would be growing.
    That's just a very simplistic analysis, and I am speaking on general terms. Some things would have to be sacrificed, but on the whole the Former SU would live better, if you ask me.
    The interesting question is that, assuming the Soviet Union would achieve similar growth to China after its economic transition, would it have, by now, overtaken the United States as a global superpower? Considering how fast China has closed the gap between the US and itself since it's own transition, I believe it could be quite possible.

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    Default Re: What if the Soviet Union still exists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jingle_Bombs View Post
    The interesting question is that, assuming the Soviet Union would achieve similar growth to China after its economic transition, would it have, by now, overtaken the United States as a global superpower? Considering how fast China has closed the gap between the US and itself since it's own transition, I believe it could be quite possible.
    China, 1 billion humans.
    Russia, ca. 150 million humans.

    Overcoming the US? Rather unlikely.
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    Default Re: What if the Soviet Union still exists?

    9/11 wouldn't have happened, as Al Qaeda would've concentrated their efforts on the USSR instead.
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    Scipio Afracanis's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: What if the Soviet Union still exists?

    So Ronald Reagan screwed us again?

    Because it sounds like things would be better if USSR was still around, No Iraq,Afghan and more importantly no 9/11.
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    Zhangir's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: What if the Soviet Union still exists?

    The interesting question is that, assuming the Soviet Union would achieve similar growth to China after its economic transition, would it have, by now, overtaken the United States as a global superpower? Considering how fast China has closed the gap between the US and itself since it's own transition, I believe it could be quite possible.
    Well a very interesting question indeed!
    The Soviet Union has a much higher starting base than China, which gives it a sort of advantage, but yeah, the population is smaller, but there are more resources.
    I think if governed correctly, the Soviet Union could have matched the US as a global superpower today.
    Not sure about overtaking, because I am kind of wary of USSR's RnD.
    We used to use spies to get US/Europe's technologies, rather than invent our own (well we did invent our own, but those were based on Western blueprints).
    So if our R and D would be good by 2010 (using our ALternative history), then yeah, we would definately overtake the USA.

    China, 1 billion humans.
    Russia, ca. 150 million humans.

    Overcoming the US? Rather unlikely.
    Lol.
    Simply LOL.
    China is 1.3 Billion, firstly.
    Secondly, Russia may be 150 million today, but you make the most common and unforgivable mistake of equalling Russia to Soviet Union.
    By 1989 the population of the Soviet Union was just short of 300 million people AND growing!

    The US is 300 million people today (or rather 310) which makes it on par with the Soviet Union.

    It always pains me that people forget how the other 14 Republics of the Former USSR helped and contributed as much as Russia, and they never get mentioned.
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    Jingles's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: What if the Soviet Union still exists?

    Yeah, it irritates me when people call the Soviets Russians. Especially when they're talking about the second world war. In fact most of the Soviet leaders weren't even born in the RSFSR.

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    Default Re: What if the Soviet Union still exists?

    It's more convenient, and the Russians were considered superior to all the other ethnic groups in the Union, not to mention that they were by far the largest group.
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    Default Re: What if the Soviet Union still exists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jingle_Bombs View Post
    ^This.

    There would likely have been no Iraq war, certainly no invasion of Afghanistan. Quite probably no 9/11 either. The Soviet Union would resemble a bigger and meaner version of China today. Gorbachev's plan for a looser Union would have gone through, along with the 500 day plan to transform the Soviet economy to a market based one like China's. With the change to a market economy, better relations with the West would have been only a matter of time.
    I disagree with you on this one. I can hardly think of a way to stop USA's invasion of Iraq just by Russia having another government (say, Gorbachev stays in his seat). USA doesn't really care about other countries' opinions (especially those, which don't support them openly), plus they are backed by the EU/NATO.

    So, even if Gorbachev sent a diplomatic note to the US, I don't think they would pull out all their forces ASAP. Considering that Russia and the US started to build good diplomatic relationships during the last few years.

    Also, it is not certain whether 9/11 could be prevented. Even if the Soviet Union controlled Afghanistan (which is unlikely, as in the 90's they pulled out all forces; not only because of the division of the USSR), there would likely be a way for the Talibans to continue their activity undercover and still resist the occupational forces (pretty much what happened after the US occupied Afghan).

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    Jingles's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: What if the Soviet Union still exists?

    The game would largely remain the same for a while I think. The Soviets and Americans would hardly be best pals by 2003. I mean, China and the US are hardly two friendly peas in a pod, and they don't nearly have as much bad blood between them. Even if the Soviet Union had tolerated the invasion of Iraq, which I believe it would not, It certainly wouldn't sit idly by as the United States occupies Afghanistan. Best case scenario, The Soviets would head back into Afghanistan alongside the Americans, which is a recipe for further political tension.

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    Default Re: What if the Soviet Union still exists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jingle_Bombs View Post
    The game would largely remain the same for a while I think. The Soviets and Americans would hardly be best pals by 2003. I mean, China and the US are hardly two friendly peas in a pod, and they don't nearly have as much bad blood between them. Even if the Soviet Union had tolerated the invasion of Iraq, which I believe it would not, It certainly wouldn't sit idly by as the United States occupies Afghanistan. Best case scenario, The Soviets would head back into Afghanistan alongside the Americans, which is a recipe for further political tension.
    It makes sense, but I still doubt that the Soviets would stay in Afghanistan. They pulled their forces out in 1989, while USSR collapsed is 1991. Of course, the US would never invade Afghanistan if it was occupied by the USSR (that would spark a war), but if the Soviets pulled out their forces despite the fact they did not collapse (like in real history), I doubt that the US would ask the Soviets' opinion on invading Afghan.

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