Call of Warhammer vs Third Age

[The Holy Pilgrim]

THIS IS NOT A POPULARITY CONTEST.
It is merely just a logical debate.
This in no way is asking which mod is better.

I know that this is the Third Age forum, but I'd like to get your votes. Who'd win in a "War of the Realms"? Tolkien's Middle Earth or Game Workshop's World of Warhammer. Both are fantasy worlds with both good and evil fighting against one another and even have most of the same races more or less. They do, however, differ in many areas. Please choose based on their abilites, not bias.

Here's the run down of each world's factions with their respective strengths and weaknesses

WARHAMMER

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

EMPIRE- Largest manufacturer of guns and cannons (which Middle Earth does not have) and thousands of trained Imperial Troops. Limited amounts of heavy and light cavalry.
KHORNE- Berserkers and daemons that are deadly in melee and rarely route. Very limited range and barely any cavalry.
SLAANESH- Very agile and swift warriors and demonettes. Weak in prolonged fights.
TZEENTCH- Very powerful ranged units and masters of magic. Weak in melee.
NURGLE- Very durable units and are able to spread disease among their enemies. Very slow and easily out manuveured.
KISLEV- Powerful Bear Riders and heavy cavalry. Mostly contain militia grade troops.
DARK ELVES- Cold One knights and repeating crossbows/ballistas. Limited in numbers.
HIGH ELVES- Highly trained soldiers and powerful cavalry. Limited in numbers.
DWARVES- Mithril grade armor along with guns and cannons. Slow and few in number.
ORCS- Very strong melee fighters and vast in numbers. Route nearly immediately when general is killed and are easily out smarted.
GOBLINS- Quick and vast in numbers. Control Squig herds. Very weak in combat and morale.
VAMPIRE COUNTS- Nearly endless supply of undead warriors and few, but powerful Blood Dragons. All units (except Blood Dragons) are very weak and easily overpowered.

THIRD AGE

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

GONDOR- Very well trained and armored soldiers. Limited in cavalry selection.
ROHAN- Some of the best cavalry in Middle Earth. Weak foot soldiers.
ISENGARD- Fearsome Uruk Hai and produces "advanced" weapons and armor. Fewer in number than other Orc factions of Middle Earth.
MORDOR- Vast amounts of Orcs and controls the mighty Olog Hai and Nazguls. Most of their units are weak and have poor morale.
SILVEN ELVES- Excellent when fighting in the woods and boasts arguably the best archers in Middle Earth. Limited in number.
DWARVES- Mithril grade armor and excellent melee fighters. No cavalry and very limited missile units.
HIGH ELVES- Excellent units and some of the best archers and fighters in Middle Earth. Very limited in number.
RHUN- Heavily armoured Kataphracts and powerful chariots. Limited, but powerful, heavy infantry.
ORCS OF THE MISTY MOUNTAINS- Vast in numbers and control Cave Trolls and the mighty Balrog. Very weak in melee and poor morale.
DALE- Very good archers and good allies of the Dwarves. Limited heavy infantry and cavalry.
ERIADOR- Can later form into Arnor. Many militia grade units.
HARAD- Very powerful Mumukail and Half-Trolls. Limited heavy infantry and cavalry.

Please give a breif reason why you chose what you did. It doesn't have to be an entire page, I'd just like to know what you picked and why. Also, to be fair, I am going to post this in the Call of Warhammer forum and compare results there.

I'd choose the World of Warhammer because of their Demons and Guns. In general, the World of Warhammer has better and larger armies, and in some cases, better weapons and armor.

[Jean=A=Luc]

I'm surprised you would make a topic like this THP.

You know these things always degrade into a popularity contest and people will inevitably be comparing the mods, saying witch is better, and it's going to end badly.

Just see Star Trek vs. Star Wars for reference, it's awful.

This really shouldn't be in the AAR section but I'm loathe to move it to gen. discussion, I dunno.

[The Holy Pilgrim]

I decided to place it here because of the "Fan Fiction" side of the thread.

And yes, unfortunately this will become a popularity contest, but I was just curious. There was a thread here about Middle Earth crossing over to our world or vice-versa and that inspired me to make my own personal mod (hence all of the screenshots).

I'm not sure if it'll help, but I put a disclaimer up at the top of the post.

[Jean=A=Luc]

The thing is Middle-Earth was conceived as high literature, a semi-mythological account of Earth's very ancient history.

Warhammer is a franchise specifically designed to have video/board/card games and various merchandise based on it. It is over the top and exaggerated to appeal to that inner kid in all of us that gets off on watching power rangers and guys on steroids in large armour. It's shiny, spiky, quantitative, anything to saturate our senses and provide a thrill.

Of course the fictional armies of a world thus conceived would more or less always win against the armies of a world that doesn't put so much emphasis on over-exaggeration.

It's a bit like asking who would win in a "Beowulf vs. Orc Warboss Bonechoppa" match up. Beowulf might be you classical hero from an epic saga but what chance does he stand against an 8 foot monster with biceps like tree trunks, an axe/club heavy as a piano and spikes and blades protruding from every 5 square inches of its armour?

And really, why would you degrade Beowulf by placing him in such a scenario (even if he could somehow win)?

.......................................................................................................

Of course form a m2tw gameplay perspective any side can win as nothing is immune to damage, especially if it's player vs. AI. In m2 guns are often more of a liability unless they're very carefully positioned and the terrain is favorable.

It also depends on what kind of stat system each mod uses. Some balancing systems use larger figures, others smaller. Basically the mod balanced around larger numbers would win because its units would have higher stats. As you see there's a lot of nonsense here.

But 99.9% people won't even consider what I said here, instead they'll base their opinions on some vague combination of the fictional worlds the mods are based on and personal preference.

edit: You can already see what I'm talking about from the few responses in the CoW thread.

[Hero of the West]

bit of a weird treath.. comparing fiction strenght from one fiction game with the fiction strength of another fiction game.. well i'll go change some files.. so i have the proof to say that third age factions will dominate the crap on my boot called "Warhammer".. nothing against the mod, it's good work.. but i hate the theme even from the books.. the table game.. the merchandize.. hate it all much to fantasy.. and the books and underlying story read like looking at a B-movie..

but i've i have to say.. of course warhammer wins.. they have al kinds of weird monsterous units.. with 40 arms and undead devil chariot spider riding thingies .. then again as i said.. just changes some files, some hitpoints + here, a bit of extra moral + there..

[Pietrak]

Warhammer would win, because of these things:
1) Magic - every faction has some powerful wizards that can destroy hundreds of people on a whim
2) Imperial Artillery - the only thing Middle-earth could put up against it would be Trebuchets or catapults or (probably most effective) Fell Beasts and Eagles

Of all the match-ups I can imagine, I think the best would be:
- the most appealing to me is the vision of Chaos Warriors plowing through the ranks of Orcs at the feet of Mt. Doom.
- Empire besieging Minas Tirith, with all those cannons blazing.
- Kislev challenging Rohan to a cavalry battle somewhere on the plains of Rohan
- Dark Elf Executioners dueling Noldor warriors in the harbors of Mithlond

I could go on for quite a while, you know

[The Holy Pilgrim]

The thing is Middle-Earth was conceived as high literature, a semi-mythological account of Earth's very ancient history.

Warhammer is a franchise specifically designed to have video/board/card games and various merchandise based on it. It is over the top and exaggerated to appeal to that inner kid in all of us that gets off on watching power rangers and guys on steroids in large armour. It's shiny, spiky, quantitative, anything to saturate our senses and provide a thrill.

Of course the fictional armies of a world thus conceived would more or less always win against the armies of a world that doesn't put so much emphasis on over-exaggeration.

It's a bit like asking who would win in a "Beowulf vs. Orc Warboss Bonechoppa" match up. Beowulf might be you classical hero from an epic saga but what chance does he stand against an 8 foot monster with biceps like tree trunks, an axe/club heavy as a piano and spikes and blades protruding from every 5 square inches of its armour?

And really, why would you degrade Beowulf by placing him in such a scenario (even if he could somehow win)?

.......................................................................................................

Of course form a m2tw gameplay perspective any side can win as nothing is immune to damage, especially if it's player vs. AI. In m2 guns are often more of a liability unless they're very carefully positioned and the terrain is favorable.

It also depends on what kind of stat system each mod uses. Some balancing systems use larger figures, others smaller. Basically the mod balanced around larger numbers would win because its units would have higher stats. As you see there's a lot of nonsense here.

But 99.9% people won't even consider what I said here, instead they'll base their opinions on some vague combination of the fictional worlds the mods are based on and personal preference.

edit: You can already see what I'm talking about from the few responses in the CoW thread.

I see what you are saying, but this is just a fun thread based off of a personal mod I am making. I just wanted to know people's opinions.

Btw, Beowulf would win. He ripped out a Dragon's heart with his bare hands for christ sake

bit of a weird treath.. comparing fiction strenght from one fiction game with the fiction strength of another fiction game.. well i'll go change some files.. so i have the proof to say that third age factions will dominate the crap on my boot called "Warhammer".. nothing against the mod, it's good work.. but i hate the theme even from the books.. the table game.. the merchandize.. hate it all much to fantasy.. and the books and underlying story read like looking at a B-movie..

but i've i have to say.. of course warhammer wins.. they have al kinds of weird monsterous units.. with 40 arms and undead devil chariot spider riding thingies .. then again as i said.. just changes some files, some hitpoints + here, a bit of extra moral + there..

I will not be biased in the mod I am making. I will be using a strict formula, much like Point Blank's RC formula, before I start battling. I am trying to base the battles off of arms and armor, not by popularity.

[Emperor of The Great Unknown]

Warhammar cause of the magic, but Maybe if Middle Earth was the playign field, a home field advantage could be something.


I guess the only thign that would stop War Hammer is giving the ring to Sarmoun, and shrouding the world in darkness.

[The Holy Pilgrim]

Chaos will revel in the Darkness. The Chaos gods are what Sauron's nightmares are about

[Wolfsblut]

You know these things always degrade into a popularity contest and people will inevitably be comparing the mods, saying witch is better, and it's going to end badly.

As much as i am curious about the troop-behavior in this, that was exactly what i thought when
i saw this.

[Mr. Sorrow]

I would advise not to compare, but play and review... sort of...

[EOMER]

Sauron does not have nightmares

[intel]

It will be hard, especially if you're combining very promising, but unpolished at the same time (and untranslated!!!) Call of Warhammer to a slightly different in gameplay TATW.

[The Holy Pilgrim]

It will be hard, especially if you're combining very promising, but unpolished at the same time (and untranslated!!!) Call of Warhammer to a slightly different in gameplay TATW.

Actually, it's coming along very nicely. 8 factions done in three days. Now that is an achievment

Check out the mod here.

But once again, this thread is NOT about which mod is better. It's just asking who's armies would win in an all out war.

[intel]

Actually, it's coming along very nicely. 8 factions done in three days. Now that is an achievment

Check out the mod here.

But once again, this thread is NOT about which mod is better. It's just asking who's armies would win in an all out war.

Well, of course the OP (Over Powered) Warhammer ones. Better technology, more guys on steroids, more magic, finally completely different approach to fantasy which translates directly into presence of demons, giant beasts and so on daily basis.

[captcruch]

I agree with Intel , you just do nothing even if you made a covenant of all the peoples in the Third age and warhammer versus the irriducible invincible eternal undefeated magnificent DARK ELVES
But anyway you already know MALAKITH going to dominate the worlds x 2

Seriously Holy i can't wait to see your fist video on youtube : troll vs demon or dwarf vs dwarf .

[Big Pacha]

Personally I don't think the "debate" is relevant because...

Warhammer is a franchise specifically designed to have video/board/card games and various merchandise based on it. It is over the top and exaggerated to appeal to that inner kid in all of us that gets off on watching power rangers and guys on steroids in large armour. It's shiny, spiky, quantitative, anything to saturate our senses and provide a thrill.

aaaaah... al least someone understands the gaming industry marketing.

(...)
It's a bit like asking who would win in a "Beowulf vs. Orc Warboss Bonechoppa" match up. Beowulf might be you classical hero from an epic saga but what chance does he stand against an 8 foot monster with biceps like tree trunks, an axe/club heavy as a piano and spikes and blades protruding from every 5 square inches of its armour?

And really, why would you degrade Beowulf by placing him in such a scenario (even if he could somehow win)?

Beowulf always win! He's the Chuck Norris of Fantasy. Dismembering a Troll with his bare hands + ripping off a live dragon's heart + always getting all the babes - even demonic ones?

You can't beat such badass
He would bash a Bloodshirster of Khorne using a live Balrog as a club...

EDIT : BTW I enjoy both mods & realms

[The Holy Pilgrim]

Seriously Holy i can't wait to see your fist video on youtube : troll vs demon or dwarf vs dwarf .

I don't know where you heard of me releasing videos, but I have no such skill. However, if you'd like to fight the battles yourself, you are more than welcome to do so (look here).

Beowulf always win! He's the Chuck Norris of Fantasy. Dismembering a Troll with his bare hands + ripping off a live dragon's heart + always getting all the babes - even demonic ones?

You can't beat such badass
He would bash a Bloodshirster of Khorne using a live Balrog as a club...

EDIT : BTW I enjoy both mods & realms

You got that right! Nothing can beat Beowulf!

[Jean=A=Luc]

Ok Beowulf was a bad example, gimme a break. King Arthur then...or maybe Dolph Lundgren.

[Wolfsblut]

Ok Beowulf was a bad example, gimme a break. King Arthur then...or maybe Dolph Lundgren.

King Arthur the Chuckold and who?