What would have happened if Frederick Barbarossa hadn't drowned in the Göksu River?

[Timur_the_Lame]

Well we'll never know what would actually happen but thats my prediction.

fair enough good sir lol

[Jaketh]

he would have pwned him some arabs

[konny]

If Barbarossa had managed to make into the Holy Lands things would certainly had gone much different. The army of 100,000 men of course belong the realm of fantasy (a more likely figure would be 25,000 men including 5,000 knights), but the German contingent would had approximatly doubled the size of the crusading army.

He would have certainly commanded the crusade once he had appeared on the scene - at last he was the emperor, the others were just "petty kings" (=regulus; that's what his chancellary called the King of France). This would not have been the worst thing to have happened because Richard didn't do a particular good job down there. Barbarossa in return was a much more experienced commander, with the respective reputation - also in the Orient.

As the worst thing Richard and Barbarossa would had came across each other and would not had been able to agree on a common command (to repeat that: Barbarossa would under no circumstances had fought under someone else's command). In this case we would have had two seperate campaigns going on against Saladin; even though he barley was able to fight the one that had happened in history.

[Ishan]

If Barbarossa had managed to make into the Holy Lands things would certainly had gone much different. The army of 100,000 men of course belong the realm of fantasy (a more likely figure would be 25,000 men including 5,000 knights), but the German contingent would had approximatly doubled the size of the crusading army.

He would have certainly commanded the crusade once he had appeared on the scene - at last he was the emperor, the others were just "petty kings" (=regulus; that's what his chancellary called the King of France). This would not have been the worst thing to have happened because Richard didn't do a particular good job down there. Barbarossa in return was a much more experienced commander, with the respective reputation - also in the Orient.

As the worst thing Richard and Barbarossa would had came across each other and would not had been able to agree on a common command (to repeat that: Barbarossa would under no circumstances had fought under someone else's command). In this case we would have had two seperate campaigns going on against Saladin; even though he barley was able to fight the one that had happened in history.

Thanks Konny for the input really liked ur answer.+rep to u bro.

[YuriVII]

I dont know, he could have changed the course, but the Muslims had numbers and proximity to the Holy Land, the Crusaders had to sail and in Barbarossa's case march all that way. They could have gradually widdled away after Barbarossa died and less effective leaders came to play.

[Nikos]

Moved to alternate history.

-Nikos

[The Fishman]

Saladin would be defeated and Jerusalem retaken, greatly weakening the Islamic hold on the Levant. With No Mamluke or Ayyubid armies to oppose them, the Mongols would be able to conquer the Middle East and advance into Egypt and North Africa. The Mongols would probably conquer or at least vassalise the Crusaders states as well.

[Frederich Barbarossa]

I didn't drown. J/k Probz kick Saracen ass. Lionheart did it and without German help. You see when this man died German leadership was in tatters and the whole German army had gone home for proper burial and with low morale. If he would have still been alive then he would have led lots of Victories even with conflicts between the Kings.

[Divided]

I just saw this thread and.. nice one Ishan, but I can't vote on the poll for some reason. Anyway I vote for the 1st one.
Aren't those picks on the OP from AoE II?

[Ishan]

I didn't drown. J/k Probz kick Saracen ass. Lionheart did it and without German help. You see when this man died German leadership was in tatters and the whole German army had gone home for proper burial and with low morale. If he would have still been alive then he would have led lots of Victories even with conflicts between the Kings.

Thanks Frederich Barbarossa for saying a few words on Frederick Barbarossa.. But I've read

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

that after his death Barbarossa's son, Frederick VI of Swabia, carried on with the remnants of the German army, along with the Hungarian army under the command of prince Géza, with the aim of burying the Emperor in Jerusalem, but efforts to conserve his body in vinegar failed. Hence, his flesh was interred in the Church of St Peter in Antioch, his bones in the cathedral of Tyre, and his heart and inner organs in Tarsus.

I just saw this thread and.. nice one Ishan, but I can't vote on the poll for some reason. Anyway I vote for the 1st one.
Aren't those picks on the OP from AoE II?

Thank u Divided u see this old man since my childhood has always served as an inspiration to me.
Yes the pics are from AOE-II.Silly me but it is the best i could think of giving a serious feeling about the thread.
Let me talk to one of the Moderators about the problem with poll options.

[Heavy Weapons Guy]

Does anyone still plays Aoe2? Lmfao

After too many years i still have it working. Sometimes i play it xD
Its AI its smarter than in M2TW... Actually , i think aoe2 AI it's very hard to beat lol

In earlier days I could defeat AI on Very Hard against 7 opponents.

[Heavy Weapons Guy]

Without Ottoman Empire, Hapsburgs would have dominate Europe and France wouldn't have expanded. Since in 16th Century France almost every time was saved by Ottomans. Maybe we could see united Germany much earlier or even United States of Europe dominated by Hapsburgs?

[Il-Principe]

Let's not forget that the Middle Ages were deeply religious times. The emperor was basically god's deputy on earth. The idea was that god appointed the emperor to rule on his behalf. That means that one, if not the most important duty of the emperor was to expand Christianity on earth. Barbarossa went to holy land with that goal in mind. Obviously he also cared about his salvation as he was an old man and expected to meet the lord rather sooner than later.
So when the emperor, god's deputy on earth, died on his way to the holy land., it was seen as a really bad omen. That he drowned in a river was seen as punishment by god. Obviously the whole crusade was cursed. His men were deeply discouraged and most returned home. I can also imagine that many knights in the holy land were dispirited as well. The feeling of despair must have been deepened by the fact that Barbarossa was a hugely prestigious ruler. It's not without reason that he is one of the iconic rulers of the entire Middle Ages.
Overall it's highly likely that the crusade would have been successful in case of Barbarossa surviving the journey to Asia Minor, because:

a) No bad omen.

b) His huge army would have greatly enlarged the already present crusader armies.

c) His considerable prestige would have given him automatically the command of the entire armies. Therefore king Philipp would not have a sorry excuse to quarrel with king Richard about who should lead the armies. Also Philipp could not have returned to France before the job was done.

d) This is a bit speculative, but I presume that the appearance of a red-bearded warlord would have stricken fear to the hearts of Muslims.


If the crusaders would have turned a success in the 3rd crusade into a long-term success story, I'm not so sure. Overall the holy land was closer to Muslim bases and the Muslims greatly outnumbered in the Levant. Probably in the ned not much would have changed.

[Ishan]

In earlier days I could defeat AI on Very Hard against 7 opponents.

I feel u bro AOE-II was a damn easy game as compared to M2TW.

Let's not forget that the Middle Ages were deeply religious times. The emperor was basically god's deputy on earth. The idea was that god appointed the emperor to rule on his behalf. That means that one, if not the most important duty of the emperor was to expand Christianity on earth. Barbarossa went to holy land with that goal in mind. Obviously he also cared about his salvation as he was an old man and expected to meet the lord rather sooner than later.
So when the emperor, god's deputy on earth, died on his way to the holy land., it was seen as a really bad omen. That he drowned in a river was seen as punishment by god. Obviously the whole crusade was cursed. His men were deeply discouraged and most returned home. I can also imagine that many knights in the holy land were dispirited as well. The feeling of despair must have been deepened by the fact that Barbarossa was a hugely prestigious ruler. It's not without reason that he is one of the iconic rulers of the entire Middle Ages.
Overall it's highly likely that the crusade would have been successful in case of Barbarossa surviving the journey to Asia Minor, because:

a) No bad omen.

b) His huge army would have greatly enlarged the already present crusader armies.

c) His considerable prestige would have given him automatically the command of the entire armies. Therefore king Philipp would not have a sorry excuse to quarrel with king Richard about who should lead the armies. Also Philipp could not have returned to France before the job was done.

d) This is a bit speculative, but I presume that the appearance of a red-bearded warlord would have stricken fear to the hearts of Muslims.


If the crusaders would have turned a success in the 3rd crusade into a long-term success story, I'm not so sure. Overall the holy land was closer to Muslim bases and the Muslims greatly outnumbered in the Levant. Probably in the ned not much would have changed.

Very interesting +rep to bro.

I just saw this thread and.. nice one Ishan, but I can't vote on the poll for some reason. Anyway I vote for the 1st one.
Aren't those picks on the OP from AoE II?

Sorry bro but unfortunately a moderator told me that voting is disabled in the VV section coz of abuse.

[Il-Principe]

Very interesting +rep to bro.

ehm, I'm not your bro.

[Ishan]

ehm, I'm not your bro.

Ouch that hurts.

[Creeds]

Great idea for a thread. He definitely would have won. Such a pity he died so foolishly.