What would have happened if Frederick Barbarossa hadn't drowned in the Göksu River?

[Ishan]

We all know that Frederick Barbarossa was the Holy Roman Emperor who lived from 1122–1190 A.D.
He is one my favorite kings who led Germany to global supremacy during his reign. Of course he had some misfortunes in northern italy but during his reign he was the most feared king in all of Europe.
You can find out more info on him here.
Now during his later years of his life when his conflict with pope ended with the arrival of a new one Pope Gregory VIII he made peace with him and was immediately assigned with the duty to take the cross for the Third crusade.

He took the responsibility and marched for the Third crusade which is also referred to as Kings crusade coz Richard the Lionheart and King Philip-II of France also joined it.
The reason for calling the third crusade was that the Saracens under the leadership of Saladin were defeating the crusader kingdoms.
Now Barbarossa had gathered a vast crusading army nearly 100000 Soldiers and their armies coming from Western Europe pushed on through Anatolia (where they were victorious in taking Aksehir and defeating the turks in the Battle of Iconium), and entered Cilician Armenia. The approach of the immense German army greatly concerned Saladin and the other Muslim leaders, who began to rally troops of their own to confront Barbarossa's forces.

However, on 10 June 1190, Emperor Frederick drowned in the Göksu River as his army was approaching Antioch from Armenia; Arab historians report that his army had encamped before the river, and that the Emperor had gone to the river to bathe when he was carried away by the current and drowned in it.

So my question is to M2 players especially who have played the crusades campaign is that what if things hadn't gone wrong for the German crusading army?
You can answer the question historical wise as well as the game crusades campaign wise (that how would that have affected the campaign).
So Plz cast your votes and select the option explaining the choice why.

Personally i select option 1 that if Barbarossa had arrived in the holy land the third crusade would had been successful. The Saracen armies might have been decimated.
The Muslims factions would have no choice but to make a peace with the crusaders and from the game perspective i think winning the campaign with such a large army would have made the campaign easier to win.

[Bow-wow-wow]

Wow this is a really good idea for a thread! If Barbosa had arrived in the holy land, I'm guessing that between Barbosa, Richard, and Phillip the crusaders would have won. Now in terms of history this means the ottoman empire would have never been created which means World War I may have never happened because although Austria would have most likely still started the war against Russia for Archduke charles' assasination, Germany wouldn't of joined because it would have been suicidal to fight without the ottomans which means World War 2 would have never happened because Japan wouldn't have fought without Germany. This means the cold war would have never happened and their would be no Nuclear weaponry ehich means people wouldn't be scared of a Nuclear war which means there would be endless world peace... Mann Barbosa, you picked the wrong time to take a bath!

[Ishan]

Wow this is a really good idea for a thread! If Barbosa had arrived in the holy land, I'm guessing that between Barbosa, Richard, and Phillip the crusaders would have won. Now in terms of history this means the ottoman empire would have never been created which means World War I may have never happened because although Austria would have most likely still started the war against Russia for Archduke charles' assasination, Germany wouldn't of joined because it would have been suicidal to fight without the ottomans which means World War 2 would have never happened because Japan wouldn't have fought without Germany. This means the cold war would have never happened and their would be no Nuclear weaponry ehich means people wouldn't be scared of a Nuclear war which means there would be endless world peace... Mann Barbosa, you picked the wrong time to take a bath!

Have to say never expected such a wild answer.
+rep 2 u bro
Edit 1
DamnSorry nazgul forgot about the double posting thing u told me earlier. Won't happen again.

[Sparkshot]

Wow this is a really good idea for a thread! If Barbosa had arrived in the holy land, I'm guessing that between Barbosa, Richard, and Phillip the crusaders would have won. Now in terms of history this means the ottoman empire would have never been created which means World War I may have never happened because although Austria would have most likely still started the war against Russia for Archduke charles' assasination, Germany wouldn't of joined because it would have been suicidal to fight without the ottomans which means World War 2 would have never happened because Japan wouldn't have fought without Germany. This means the cold war would have never happened and their would be no Nuclear weaponry ehich means people wouldn't be scared of a Nuclear war which means there would be endless world peace... Mann Barbosa, you picked the wrong time to take a bath!

I highly doubt that if Barbarossa actually survived to take part in the Crusade that we would have endless world peace. Rather I would think that the Italian-city states such as Venice, Milan, and Florence, would have remained powerful and wealthy for much longer because they would be able to maintain their trade with the Levant. This would have prevented the further development of the nation-states of France, Spain, and England for a while yet. After all, the main purpose of Colombus and other "new world" expeditions was to find an alternative trade route to India. The Ottomans were making trade to the Levant and thus the rest of the east rather difficult thus they were a necessity. So Europe might not have discovered the new world for another 50 years or more. And possibly, instead of the Inter Caetera between Spain and Portugal it would have been a bunch of Italian city-states. So maybe Latin America would be speaking Venetian and Italian today.

[Ascarona]

Wow this is a really good idea for a thread!

Fine idea, bad place.
Remember kids the M2:TW General Discussion is not the only board in this forum. The people in the Discussion and Debate... and more importantly for Medieval questions the people in the Vestigia Vetustatis are far more skilled to handle a subject like this. So next time if you're going to ask a question look for a good board.

I swear this could light up fantastic debates in VV, the OP should ask for a transfer.

Wow this is a really good idea for a thread! If Barbosa had arrived in the holy land, I'm guessing that between Barbosa, Richard, and Phillip the crusaders would have won. Now in terms of history this means the ottoman empire would have never been created which means World War I may have never happened because although Austria would have most likely still started the war against Russia for Archduke charles' assasination, Germany wouldn't of joined because it would have been suicidal to fight without the ottomans which means World War 2 would have never happened because Japan wouldn't have fought without Germany. This means the cold war would have never happened and their would be no Nuclear weaponry ehich means people wouldn't be scared of a Nuclear war which means there would be endless world peace... Mann Barbosa, you picked the wrong time to take a bath!

You got a lot of immagination my friend .

[King Of Scotland]

You got a lot of immagination my friend .

Yeah, that's something more than just immagination.
My opinion is, that Barbossa would have drowned to the next place where's water. I mean, come on man, you are a grown up and drown in a river, while everyone else go over without damage....

[Ishan]

My opinion is, that Barbossa would have drowned to the next place where's water. I mean, come on man, you are a grown up and drown in a river, while everyone else go over without damage....

At That time he was 67 and the reason he was drowned was not that he didn't knew how to swim but the weight of the armor was the real reason.

[Timur_the_Lame]

Wow this is a really good idea for a thread! If Barbosa had arrived in the holy land, I'm guessing that between Barbosa, Richard, and Phillip the crusaders would have won. Now in terms of history this means the ottoman empire would have never been created which means World War I may have never happened because although Austria would have most likely still started the war against Russia for Archduke charles' assasination, Germany wouldn't of joined because it would have been suicidal to fight without the ottomans which means World War 2 would have never happened because Japan wouldn't have fought without Germany. This means the cold war would have never happened and their would be no Nuclear weaponry ehich means people wouldn't be scared of a Nuclear war which means there would be endless world peace... Mann Barbosa, you picked the wrong time to take a bath!

why wouldnt the ottoman empire have started if the crusade was successful? I don't understand that logic...the Ottomans did not begin until 1300 and that was in northwestern Anitolia. What does that have to do with the 3rd crusade? Please explain

[Bow-wow-wow]

why wouldnt the ottoman empire have started if the crusade was successful? I don't understand that logic...the Ottomans did not begin until 1300 and that was in northwestern Anitolia. What does that have to do with the 3rd crusade? Please explain

Well I'm saying they would have started but if the crusaders were Strong enough which im guessing they would have been with Barbosa, Then the ottoman empire wouldn't have been able to conquer the crusading lands.This means they would have never reached cities that helped them get out of military and financial turmoil such as Antioch, Jerusalem and espeicially Damascus. They would have started but they would be alot weaker.

For references:http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ottoman_Empire

[Timur_the_Lame]

Well I'm saying they would have started but if the crusaders were Strong enough which im guessing they would have been with Barbosa, Then the ottoman empire wouldn't have been able to conquer the crusading lands.This means they would have never reached cities that helped them get out of military and financial turmoil such as Antioch, Jerusalem and espeicially Damascus. They would have started but they would be alot weaker.

For references:http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ottoman_Empire

thanks but i did huge project on the ottomans so i know haha. but thanks for the link haha. I understand what your saying but i think the superiority of the ottoman military woluld have easily destroyed any extra-powerful crusade state buffed up by barbossa. but yes, i understand what your saying and it does have merit.

[Bow-wow-wow]

thanks but i did huge project on the ottomans so i know haha. but thanks for the link haha. I understand what your saying but i think the superiority of the ottoman military woluld have easily destroyed any extra-powerful crusade state buffed up by barbossa. but yes, i understand what your saying and it does have merit.

Well we'll never know what would actually happen but thats my prediction.

[Ishan]

I understand what your saying but i think the superiority of the ottoman military woluld have easily destroyed any extra-powerful crusade state buffed up by barbossa.

During the medieval ages the latest Armour or vast numbers didn't matter when compared to the will power of the army and when under supreme Leader ship.
Like for eg the English had trouble dealing with a 16 year french girl Joan theof Arc.
Inspiration and Faith were the most dangerous weaponry of medieval battles.
So saying even Barbarossa's presence would have had no effect sounds a bit wrong.
But anyways just a difference in opinion i guess.

[Nazgûl Killer]

With his luck? He would probably step on a pissed off viper and get bitten, dying shortly after. Even more likely though, a rabid mouse would bite a viper in self defense, the viper, infected, would now flee - Then would be caught by an eagle overhead, the eagle, upon eating said viper, would also be infected with rabies and in his madness he would dive in for the kill after seeing Barbarossa, puncturing Barbarossa's eye with its beak and proceeding to his brain, yet, instead of killing him, Barbarossa would turn into a crazed, rabid zombie and would start infecting the rest of the army, creating a vast army of zombies and the infection would spread onward from there - Causing a gigantic zombie apocalypse within a year.

Yeah.
Right.



That's actually a good question mate. I'll answer it better when I'm in a serious mood.

[Ishan]

That's actually a good question mate. I'll answer it better when I'm in a serious mood.

Thank you u do that.

[Dr.Own]

It is extremely hard to say how world polititcs would have changed just because he didn't drowned.Even if his army was destryoed he would have stalled the destruction of the crusader kingdoms or even saved them.Hell the Islamic world would be very weakend.Think of a world when the Ottam empire never rose.It is just crazy to think how the world would change.For all we know maybe he would have had serval decisve military victorys that brought the Islamic world to theirs knees.Hell they might have been desyroyed if thier was still good leadership following him.Then again maybe he would have had a massive deafte after massive deafet and be little more than a joke to history.You never know.

[NotYetRegistered]

First option, I guess.

[eXistenZ]

If he hadn't drown, people wouldn't understand the importance of swimming lessons

[King Of Scotland]

If he hadn't drown, people wouldn't understand the importance of swimming lessons

Good point you got there

At That time he was 67 and the reason he was drowned was not that he didn't knew how to swim but the weight of the armor was the real reason.

But didn't the other troops had armor? Or was he the only coward in he's heavy armor?

[Ishan]

But didn't the other troops had armor? Or was he the only coward in he's heavy armor?

Yes the troops were all in armor.
But after such a long journey via land and intense heat of the middle east German crusaders were exhausted and the emperor couldn't resist to dive in the water without taking off his armor and he when rushed in the river he over-anticipated it's depth and poor old man drowned in it.
And plz don't call him a coward during his youth he was a real rockstar.

[King Of Scotland]

And plz don't call him a coward during his youth he was a real rockstar.

Sorry, I just don't like Germans. Their Teutonic Knights conqurered my country in the Medieval times, and used us as slaves for 700 years.

So that was what happened:
My country:, the Germans come to make us Christians:, we don't wanna be Christians:, they force us:, big war comes:,we get beaten:,they burn and kill a lot of our people:, and make us slaves:.

That's why I'm a little

History class is over
,