View Poll Results: What would have happened if Frederick Barbarossa had reached the Holy Land with his crusading armies?

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  • The Germans Would've made the Third Crusade successful under his leadership.

    23 74.19%
  • The German Crusaders still Would've been defeated by the Saracens under his leadership

    3 9.68%
  • Barbarossa's presence in the holy land would've resulted in a conflict between him, Richard and Philip over how to carry on the crusade

    5 16.13%
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Thread: What would have happened if Frederick Barbarossa hadn't drowned in the Göksu River?

  1. #1
    Ishan's Avatar At Your Service!
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    Default What would have happened if Frederick Barbarossa hadn't drowned in the Göksu River?

    We all know that Frederick Barbarossa was the Holy Roman Emperor who lived from 1122–1190 A.D.
    He is one my favorite kings who led Germany to global supremacy during his reign. Of course he had some misfortunes in northern italy but during his reign he was the most feared king in all of Europe.
    You can find out more info on him here.
    Now during his later years of his life when his conflict with pope ended with the arrival of a new one Pope Gregory VIII he made peace with him and was immediately assigned with the duty to take the cross for the Third crusade.

    He took the responsibility and marched for the Third crusade which is also referred to as Kings crusade coz Richard the Lionheart and King Philip-II of France also joined it.
    The reason for calling the third crusade was that the Saracens under the leadership of Saladin were defeating the crusader kingdoms.
    Now Barbarossa had gathered a vast crusading army nearly 100000 Soldiers and their armies coming from Western Europe pushed on through Anatolia (where they were victorious in taking Aksehir and defeating the turks in the Battle of Iconium), and entered Cilician Armenia. The approach of the immense German army greatly concerned Saladin and the other Muslim leaders, who began to rally troops of their own to confront Barbarossa's forces.

    However, on 10 June 1190, Emperor Frederick drowned in the Göksu River as his army was approaching Antioch from Armenia; Arab historians report that his army had encamped before the river, and that the Emperor had gone to the river to bathe when he was carried away by the current and drowned in it.

    So my question is to M2 players especially who have played the crusades campaign is that what if things hadn't gone wrong for the German crusading army?
    You can answer the question historical wise as well as the game crusades campaign wise (that how would that have affected the campaign).
    So Plz cast your votes and select the option explaining the choice why.

    Personally i select option 1 that if Barbarossa had arrived in the holy land the third crusade would had been successful. The Saracen armies might have been decimated.
    The Muslims factions would have no choice but to make a peace with the crusaders and from the game perspective i think winning the campaign with such a large army would have made the campaign easier to win.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Pic.jpg  

  2. #2
    Bow-wow-wow's Avatar Hastatus
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    Default Re: What would have happened if Frederick Barbarossa hadn't drowned in the Göksu River?

    Wow this is a really good idea for a thread! If Barbosa had arrived in the holy land, I'm guessing that between Barbosa, Richard, and Phillip the crusaders would have won. Now in terms of history this means the ottoman empire would have never been created which means World War I may have never happened because although Austria would have most likely still started the war against Russia for Archduke charles' assasination, Germany wouldn't of joined because it would have been suicidal to fight without the ottomans which means World War 2 would have never happened because Japan wouldn't have fought without Germany. This means the cold war would have never happened and their would be no Nuclear weaponry ehich means people wouldn't be scared of a Nuclear war which means there would be endless world peace... Mann Barbosa, you picked the wrong time to take a bath!
    "The art of war is of vital importance to the state. It is a matter of life and death, a road either to safety or to ruin. Hence it is a subject of inquiry which can on no account be neglected" - Sun Tzu


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    Nazgűl Killer's Avatar ✡At Your Service✡
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    Default Re: What would have happened if Frederick Barbarossa hadn't drowned in the Göksu River?

    With his luck? He would probably step on a pissed off viper and get bitten, dying shortly after. Even more likely though, a rabid mouse would bite a viper in self defense, the viper, infected, would now flee - Then would be caught by an eagle overhead, the eagle, upon eating said viper, would also be infected with rabies and in his madness he would dive in for the kill after seeing Barbarossa, puncturing Barbarossa's eye with its beak and proceeding to his brain, yet, instead of killing him, Barbarossa would turn into a crazed, rabid zombie and would start infecting the rest of the army, creating a vast army of zombies and the infection would spread onward from there - Causing a gigantic zombie apocalypse within a year.

    Yeah.
    Right.



    That's actually a good question mate. I'll answer it better when I'm in a serious mood.
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    Ishan's Avatar At Your Service!
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    Default Re: What would have happened if Frederick Barbarossa hadn't drowned in the Göksu River?

    That's actually a good question mate. I'll answer it better when I'm in a serious mood.
    Thank you u do that.

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    Ishan's Avatar At Your Service!
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    Default Re: What would have happened if Frederick Barbarossa hadn't drowned in the Göksu River?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bow-wow-wow View Post
    Wow this is a really good idea for a thread! If Barbosa had arrived in the holy land, I'm guessing that between Barbosa, Richard, and Phillip the crusaders would have won. Now in terms of history this means the ottoman empire would have never been created which means World War I may have never happened because although Austria would have most likely still started the war against Russia for Archduke charles' assasination, Germany wouldn't of joined because it would have been suicidal to fight without the ottomans which means World War 2 would have never happened because Japan wouldn't have fought without Germany. This means the cold war would have never happened and their would be no Nuclear weaponry ehich means people wouldn't be scared of a Nuclear war which means there would be endless world peace... Mann Barbosa, you picked the wrong time to take a bath!
    Have to say never expected such a wild answer.
    +rep 2 u bro
    Edit 1
    DamnSorry nazgul forgot about the double posting thing u told me earlier. Won't happen again.
    Last edited by Ishan; July 14, 2010 at 07:57 PM.

  6. #6
    Shashu
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    Default Re: What would have happened if Frederick Barbarossa hadn't drowned in the Göksu River?

    It is extremely hard to say how world polititcs would have changed just because he didn't drowned.Even if his army was destryoed he would have stalled the destruction of the crusader kingdoms or even saved them.Hell the Islamic world would be very weakend.Think of a world when the Ottam empire never rose.It is just crazy to think how the world would change.For all we know maybe he would have had serval decisve military victorys that brought the Islamic world to theirs knees.Hell they might have been desyroyed if thier was still good leadership following him.Then again maybe he would have had a massive deafte after massive deafet and be little more than a joke to history.You never know.

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    Default Re: What would have happened if Frederick Barbarossa hadn't drowned in the Göksu River?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bow-wow-wow View Post
    Wow this is a really good idea for a thread! If Barbosa had arrived in the holy land, I'm guessing that between Barbosa, Richard, and Phillip the crusaders would have won. Now in terms of history this means the ottoman empire would have never been created which means World War I may have never happened because although Austria would have most likely still started the war against Russia for Archduke charles' assasination, Germany wouldn't of joined because it would have been suicidal to fight without the ottomans which means World War 2 would have never happened because Japan wouldn't have fought without Germany. This means the cold war would have never happened and their would be no Nuclear weaponry ehich means people wouldn't be scared of a Nuclear war which means there would be endless world peace... Mann Barbosa, you picked the wrong time to take a bath!
    I highly doubt that if Barbarossa actually survived to take part in the Crusade that we would have endless world peace. Rather I would think that the Italian-city states such as Venice, Milan, and Florence, would have remained powerful and wealthy for much longer because they would be able to maintain their trade with the Levant. This would have prevented the further development of the nation-states of France, Spain, and England for a while yet. After all, the main purpose of Colombus and other "new world" expeditions was to find an alternative trade route to India. The Ottomans were making trade to the Levant and thus the rest of the east rather difficult thus they were a necessity. So Europe might not have discovered the new world for another 50 years or more. And possibly, instead of the Inter Caetera between Spain and Portugal it would have been a bunch of Italian city-states. So maybe Latin America would be speaking Venetian and Italian today.


  8. #8
    Ascarona's Avatar Ninja
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    Default Re: What would have happened if Frederick Barbarossa hadn't drowned in the Göksu River?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bow-wow-wow View Post
    Wow this is a really good idea for a thread!
    Fine idea, bad place.
    Remember kids the M2:TW General Discussion is not the only board in this forum. The people in the Discussion and Debate... and more importantly for Medieval questions the people in the Vestigia Vetustatis are far more skilled to handle a subject like this. So next time if you're going to ask a question look for a good board.

    I swear this could light up fantastic debates in VV, the OP should ask for a transfer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bow-wow-wow View Post
    Wow this is a really good idea for a thread! If Barbosa had arrived in the holy land, I'm guessing that between Barbosa, Richard, and Phillip the crusaders would have won. Now in terms of history this means the ottoman empire would have never been created which means World War I may have never happened because although Austria would have most likely still started the war against Russia for Archduke charles' assasination, Germany wouldn't of joined because it would have been suicidal to fight without the ottomans which means World War 2 would have never happened because Japan wouldn't have fought without Germany. This means the cold war would have never happened and their would be no Nuclear weaponry ehich means people wouldn't be scared of a Nuclear war which means there would be endless world peace... Mann Barbosa, you picked the wrong time to take a bath!
    You got a lot of immagination my friend .
    “Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.”

  9. #9
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    Default Re: What would have happened if Frederick Barbarossa hadn't drowned in the Göksu River?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascarona View Post

    You got a lot of immagination my friend .
    Yeah, that's something more than just immagination.
    My opinion is, that Barbossa would have drowned to the next place where's water. I mean, come on man, you are a grown up and drown in a river, while everyone else go over without damage....
    "In stone halls they burn their great fires,
    in stone halls they forge their sharp spears.
    Whilst I walk alone in the mountains,
    with no true companion but tears.
    They hunt me with dogs in the daylight,
    they hunt me with torches by night."

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    Default Re: What would have happened if Frederick Barbarossa hadn't drowned in the Göksu River?

    First option, I guess.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Nicholas View Post
    May I suggest ya'll get back on topic. Talk about Napoleon's ethnicity in another thread, this thread is about a leashed penis...
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  11. #11
    Ishan's Avatar At Your Service!
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    Default Re: What would have happened if Frederick Barbarossa hadn't drowned in the Göksu River?

    Quote Originally Posted by King Of Scotland View Post
    My opinion is, that Barbossa would have drowned to the next place where's water. I mean, come on man, you are a grown up and drown in a river, while everyone else go over without damage....
    At That time he was 67 and the reason he was drowned was not that he didn't knew how to swim but the weight of the armor was the real reason.

  12. #12
    eXistenZ's Avatar Centurio Primus Ordine
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    Default Re: What would have happened if Frederick Barbarossa hadn't drowned in the Göksu River?

    If he hadn't drown, people wouldn't understand the importance of swimming lessons

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    King Of Scotland's Avatar Aquilifer
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    Default Re: What would have happened if Frederick Barbarossa hadn't drowned in the Göksu River?

    Quote Originally Posted by eXistenZ View Post
    If he hadn't drown, people wouldn't understand the importance of swimming lessons
    Good point you got there

    At That time he was 67 and the reason he was drowned was not that he didn't knew how to swim but the weight of the armor was the real reason.
    But didn't the other troops had armor? Or was he the only coward in he's heavy armor?
    "In stone halls they burn their great fires,
    in stone halls they forge their sharp spears.
    Whilst I walk alone in the mountains,
    with no true companion but tears.
    They hunt me with dogs in the daylight,
    they hunt me with torches by night."

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    Default Re: What would have happened if Frederick Barbarossa hadn't drowned in the Göksu River?

    Imagine a hundred thousand soldiers..just :O
    the 3rd Crusade would be successful if he wasn't drowned.

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    Ishan's Avatar At Your Service!
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    Default Re: What would have happened if Frederick Barbarossa hadn't drowned in the Göksu River?

    Quote Originally Posted by King Of Scotland View Post
    But didn't the other troops had armor? Or was he the only coward in he's heavy armor?
    Yes the troops were all in armor.
    But after such a long journey via land and intense heat of the middle east German crusaders were exhausted and the emperor couldn't resist to dive in the water without taking off his armor and he when rushed in the river he over-anticipated it's depth and poor old man drowned in it.
    And plz don't call him a coward during his youth he was a real rockstar.
    Last edited by Ishan; July 14, 2010 at 07:43 AM.

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    beckyolt's Avatar Equites Cohortales
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    Default Re: What would have happened if Frederick Barbarossa hadn't drowned in the Göksu River?

    Third Crusade would have been succefull. Jerusalem would have been captured by Holy-Roman forces.

    But it would fall later or earlier. By the same reason that King Richard didin't attack Jerusalem after he captured Jaffa. He knew that soon the Crusader soldiers would return to their homes in Europe, then, it would be impossible to hold Jerusalem.

    Are those images from Age of Empires 2 ?

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    Centurio Primus Pilus
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    Default Re: What would have happened if Frederick Barbarossa hadn't drowned in the Göksu River?

    Yeah, good times on that game.

    My opinion is that the crusade would be successful.

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    Default Re: What would have happened if Frederick Barbarossa hadn't drowned in the Göksu River?

    Hahah. Yes, Age of empires 2 rocks =)

    Holy Roman Empire and Mongol campaign are very cool. Mongol is the easier. Just mass mongol horse archers and pwn slow Khwarazmian war elephants and European knights by hitting and running.

    Into that Holy Roman empire mission, "Barbarossa's march", its cool, the one that you have an immense army and have to bring it to the Holy Land.

    @ Topic

    Would the Kingdom of Jerusalem reborn if Crusade was succeful?

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    Ishan's Avatar At Your Service!
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    Default Re: What would have happened if Frederick Barbarossa hadn't drowned in the Göksu River?

    Are those images from Age of Empires 2 ?
    Yeah.
    At the end of 5th stage of the Barbarossa's campaign.
    Good old times.

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    Default Re: What would have happened if Frederick Barbarossa hadn't drowned in the Göksu River?

    Does anyone still plays Aoe2? Lmfao

    After too many years i still have it working. Sometimes i play it xD
    Its AI its smarter than in M2TW... Actually , i think aoe2 AI it's very hard to beat lol

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