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Thread: so how to use pikes in RR/RC?

  1. #21

    Default Re: so how to use pikes in RR/RC?

    cool thanks, I'll have to use sword scoutatoi and varangians with them i guess

  2. #22

    Default Re: so how to use pikes in RR/RC?

    That should work very well.

  3. #23

    Default Re: so how to use pikes in RR/RC?

    A bit of a derail. But what's the best situation to use Schiltrom? Should I be using it when facing Cav?

  4. #24

    Default Re: so how to use pikes in RR/RC?

    I don't use it very much but I suspect it'd be useful against cavalry and in defensive sieges.

    What do training and discipline do?

  5. #25

    Default Re: so how to use pikes in RR/RC?

    As some extra info, most miniatures rules sets, and even M1TW from memory, made pikes quite ineffective versus cavalry in melee, just good at stopping charges. Polearms were the real cav-killers in melee.

    Training helps define how well the formation holds together, discipline how well it responds to morale checks.

  6. #26

    Default Re: so how to use pikes in RR/RC?

    Ah, great thanks.

  7. #27
    Ducenarius
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    Default Re: so how to use pikes in RR/RC?

    I tried a recreation of a spanish pike square with arquebuisers at the corners and some javelineers inside. I faced a French army with inferior infantry but also two gendarmes. The tactic - arquebuisers hiding inside when cavalry approaches and then running out to fire - works rather well. The gendarmes were barely scratched by the tercio pikemen but suffered steadily from the fire.

    I think pikemen are relatively balanced now. The Swiss do indeed massacre most foes that come close.


    Gunners seem to be a real difficulty for the AI to handle, against my square the enemy gunners (4) stayed in very dense formations, totally failing to exploit the advantage of fire superiority. I have tried many kinds of defensive infantry formations and most work much better than they should due to the AI:s unwillingness to spread out.

    A bit of a derail. But what's the best situation to use Schiltrom? Should I be using it when facing Cav?
    Schiltrom is good for steadying the morale but I have never seen any advantage against a cavalry charge. The only effect is that the dense formation exposes less surface to the charge and thereby lessen the impact somewhat. A wide cavalry formation usually envelop a schiltrom, making it a good target for your own cavalry to counter-charge them. The best way I know to block a cavalry charge early (except stakes) is to place siege equipment in front of your infantry as a mobile wall. This makes the spearmen last much longer, giving you time to handle offensive troops while the infantry hold their ground.

    Historically, wagons were sometimes used this way, especially in camps and when defending supply trains.

  8. #28

    Default Re: so how to use pikes in RR/RC?

    Interesting thread. Good stuff.

  9. #29

    Default Re: so how to use pikes in RR/RC?

    Note that in RC, its usual for Superior units to receive +2 attack, and elite +4. This is halved for pikes and spears. These weapons are less skill-dependent than swords and polearms etc. But swords and polearms have an increased training cost.

    So as I said, armor, discipline and morale are the keys in pike-vs-pike combat.

  10. #30

    Default Re: so how to use pikes in RR/RC?

    so assume there is an elite spearmen, they will get 2 attack bonus? against all enemies? suppose they have bonus fighting cavalry, how much is the total bonus?

    IMO we need some explanation on battle mechanic here, many times I wonder how bad is the morale penalty when battling outside settlement (how the hell does inside/outside settlement actually implemented and calculated is another puzzle to me) for militias?

    same thing with increased discipline, etc

    argh, explanation needed!

  11. #31

    Default Re: so how to use pikes in RR/RC?

    Elite Spearmen get +2 vs all enemies, +4 versus cavalry from light_spear attribute, +2 mount effect vs cavalry, and +3 for basic spear attack, ie total 11 vs cav.

    I don't know how much morale bonus is applied defending settlements. There is a bonus, and especially defending town square. Obviously militia have low morale so are best employed defending settlement.

  12. #32

    Default Re: so how to use pikes in RR/RC?

    A quick question, If I have an elite swordsman who has a attack of 8 on his unit card, does this reflect the bonus of plus 4 elite units get? or should I mentally at a 4 to his basic attack of 8 to get the real total attack power of 12?

  13. #33

    Default Re: so how to use pikes in RR/RC?

    If it says 8, its 8.

  14. #34

    Default Re: so how to use pikes in RR/RC?

    Ok thanks

  15. #35

    Default Re: so how to use pikes in RR/RC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Point Blank View Post
    Elite Spearmen get +2 vs all enemies, +4 versus cavalry from light_spear attribute, +2 mount effect vs cavalry, and +3 for basic spear attack, ie total 11 vs cav.

    I don't know how much morale bonus is applied defending settlements. There is a bonus, and especially defending town square. Obviously militia have low morale so are best employed defending settlement.
    what about exceptional units?
    mercenaries?
    religious orders?
    any other hidden battle mechanics?

    I think you have an obligation to explain all that to us, user

  16. #36
    Ducenarius
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    Default Re: so how to use pikes in RR/RC?

    what about exceptional units?
    mercenaries?
    religious orders?
    Those are not battle mechanics. Take a look at the RR description, exceptional is one of many terms used to classify how the mod team regard the unit, it is nothing else than a part of the unit description. Those terms are already explained in other threads. I can recommend studying the export_description_unit document, it begins with a list of explanations of some attributes.
    Last edited by Maltacus; July 14, 2010 at 09:01 PM.

  17. #37

    Default Re: so how to use pikes in RR/RC?

    but PB clearly said elite = +2/4 AP vs all units, surely exceptional isn't only for classification?!

  18. #38
    Caesar Clivus's Avatar SS Forum Moderator
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    Default Re: so how to use pikes in RR/RC?

    Quote Originally Posted by napoleonic View Post
    I think you have an obligation to explain all that to us, user
    I think as a user you have an obligation to read the RealCombat guide you got when you downloaded RR/RC

    BftB2 UPDATED 22nd DECEMBER. Member of the Complete Byzantine Unit Roster team

  19. #39

    Default Re: so how to use pikes in RR/RC?

    AFAIK the guide does not tell me about superior units having + 2 AP or such.

  20. #40
    Seether's Avatar All Men Are Brothers
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    Default Re: so how to use pikes in RR/RC?

    Quote Originally Posted by napoleonic View Post
    but PB clearly said elite = +2/4 AP vs all units, surely exceptional isn't only for classification?!
    No he didn't. PB never said anything about AP, nor did you ask. What you asked and he explained, and the RR/RC guide explains, is about attack values, which is not AP. AP (Armor Piercing) varies from unit to unit, not classification.
    Last edited by Seether; July 14, 2010 at 11:18 PM.

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