some heraldry is incorrect and fake. it dates from 18th century book, and it's quite wrong.
for example that serbian coa that looks like byzantine actually appears in 15th century, while it is represented here as coa of Kingdom of Serbia
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One thing notable, why is Macedonia allway first on Slavonic coats?
Oh yea that is becouse of Bulgarian suprime power or it was Greek?
these are the fake ones, from 18th century books, not fojnica. those noble are right.
you can see that by serbian, bosnian and croatian coa, which did not excisted before 15th century (while that bosnian didn't exist at all)
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In fact i would be most graitfull if somebody shows me more of them.Coats are my love side by side with castles
So you say Bolgnia coats are fake and thouse of Altman too?
ok, i'm wrong, it was made by illyrian movement in 19th century not 18th, but still it's modern, so there you go, that's why macedonia is included as coa
quote from bosnian king, when i asked him about that book and bosnian coa
there is no historical coa of macedonia from middle ages or before 19th century, as independent stateThe COA you posted is the COA of Bosnia as it was created by the Illirian movement during the 19th century. The Bosnian fraters (franjevci) together with the Croatain fraters and other "south slavic" intelektuals tried to create an "Ilirian nation" we know this as the "Illirian movement" or (Ilirski pokret). They thought it was necessery because of the "dangerous" Hungarisation; because they thought that Hungaria wanted to assimilate all the south Slavs. So they were desperately searching for an ideology to unify all the south slavs. This ideology was the ideology of the "Illirians" and they explained all the south slavic peoples as "peoples of Illirian blood". Because it was difficult to unify those peoples under one flag they searched for an soulution. And they found that Croatian as well as Bosnian and Serbian and even Macedonian nobles had this simbol of the "cresent and the star" in their COA. So they decided to create a new sumbol for Bosnia which they considered the "heart of ILLIRIA".
So this Illirian movement is some kind of Romantic movement from the 19. century which tried to unify all the south slavs and this movement CREATED this flaf for Bosnia. You can read that this is true in many serious history Books but the fraters (franjeci) themelves admit also that this is true at their website.
If you have still questions just ask
good luck!
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Here is Žaferovič's book on line:
http://www.promacedonia.org/hzh/gal/000.html
So the tail makes the diference..Hmmm i didn't know that.
Gogo you are right.
Lets supose that the lions are diferend!!! What about their language that is 80-90% bulgarian?
@Makedonij
My friend let me ask you one thing.
Where was macedonia ?
Around of Pelagonia plain or north of Constantinople?
Romans (byzantines) of 7th to 12th century called Macedonian the region north of Constantinople (west Thrace) .That is why Basill that was born there was the founder of the Macedonian dynasty.
The regions around Thessalonike was "Thessalonike's Thema/province".
Odd because Thessalonike was "capital" of Panellenion.
Panellenion means Wholle Hellenism ..Odd.
But it is true that many Bulgarian Tzars prefaired the Ochrid lake and its surroundings to establish pallace courts and administration structures.
Tzars settled a very large number of bulgarian fammilies in the Pelagonia plain (modern Scopjia) in order to control the region.
What remained as fact until 1912 was that north Pelagonia plain was dominated by bulgarian populations and south Pelagonia (Monastery city) was dominated by greek populations (80% greeks in the city according to CoN in 1913!!!)...
To claim that the lion is diferend is a joke. Bulgarians have also a number of versions of the lion also..
Greeks had flags with crosses,red on black background,white on blue background, black on white background. Does this means that those with the diferend flags belonged to diferend nations?
Byzantines had difrend flags for every region of theirs.Does this mean that the were not Romans(byzantines)?
History is based on logic 1st. When you are about to research history be sure that you have your eyes and mind wide open to logical steps.
I can quarandee you that you will learn. Maybe one day you will be able to prove me wrong but only with logic.
TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material.
Despite the mod is dead does not mean that anyone can use its material
read this to avoid misunderstandings.
IWTE tool master and world txt one like this, needed inorder to release TGC 1.0 official to help TWC to survive.
Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.
Bulgarian coa by the time of Ivan Shishman
MORAL
Hrobatos you surprise me I expected fierce resistance from Serbs in the forum or some crazy makedonoid. don't make me laugh... you are saying that Western scientists and universities are Bulgarian propagandists that all ethnic census which were made by German and English, French, Russian scientists are propaganda? Why would the great powers work for a pour and small country that was just liberated from 450 years of turkish rule ?You are saying that the Bulgarian Exarchate is propaganda don't make me laugh it is a history fact http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarian_Exarchate
I don't see reason to prove something that is a fact acknowledg by the how scientific society.And i don't see reason to take Macedonia, she alone will united with Bulgaria when the population there realyse the Truth about there origin and history .And this is a process that allredy started .
Bulgaria take it for the furst time around 690 and was dominated bye bulgarian rule untile 1330 when the serbian expansion that last to 1371 - the serbian origin of the majority of the population is unfounded there could be some small groups that are serbian influens but they are from the Ygoslav period .Dushan the powerful him self titled :Emperor of serbians and greeks and not a small part of Bulgaria-it is clear that he ment today FYROM and some of the lands of today eastern Serbia because the historycall Serbian lands are Shumadia ,Most of Kosovo ,Montenegro,and part of Bosnia .
wrong ! In 19 centry Macedonia was a cultural center for the emerging bulgarian bourgeoisie .The raise of the macedonian crap began in 1945 when Tito,Dimitrov and Stalin decaidet to creat a new nation .The comunists start work on creating history,langueg and deletion the name bulgarian from churches, documents
memorials and evan the bulgarian military cemeteries!
Historical maps, whith no macedonia on it
http://0.tqn.com/d/historymedren/1/0/O/9/eurse1000b.gif
http://0.tqn.com/d/historymedren/1/0/M/9/eurse1040b.gif
http://0.tqn.com/d/historymedren/1/0/I/9/eurse1180b.gif
http://0.tqn.com/d/historymedren/1/0/G/9/eurse1210b.gif
http://0.tqn.com/d/historymedren/1/0/E/9/eurse1340b.gif
http://0.tqn.com/d/historymedren/1/0/C/9/eurse1354b.gif
http://0.tqn.com/d/historymedren/1/0/A/9/eurse1401b.gif
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Ok, Ok people... lets stop that... We are all grown mеn and we live in free world... anyone can think whatever he wants... concetrait on the topic...
As far as i know btw Byzys didn't use COAs a lot... they were much more used in the west because of the knights, bcuase it made them easy for identification \it would be hard to identificate someone with so much iron on him \ I would guess that Bulgarians didint use coas a lot too.. as we had some cultural influence by byzantines not by latins
Last edited by gogo t; July 27, 2010 at 10:15 AM.
MORAL
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Balkan madnes , no way of communication just negation
Here is Slovenian and Croatian
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Last edited by Makedonij; August 01, 2010 at 02:10 PM.
Delete it
Last edited by Makedonij; August 01, 2010 at 02:06 PM.
hh, not most of the kosovo, whole kosovo was in serbian state from the beginnings. anyways, i've added macedonians as serbs too cause serbs held macedonia for some time, and after second balkan war it was in part of serbia till fall of yugoslavia. so, macedonian language is influenced by serbian, and it is similar to serbian than bulgarian, but they are mostly bulgarians, with mix of serbians
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Rulers
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Last edited by Makedonij; August 01, 2010 at 02:12 PM.
Nikola i meen that there where times when some of the Kosovo land was taken by Bulgarians as in the time of Ivan Asen II