Revolution Order of War | General Discussions

[Geronimo2006]

Jacques Necker should be available as a Minister.

[Invictus XII]

More updates will be released soon....

[ambien]

maybe the reign of terror could be a research "technology." it might give your troops a significant morale bonus (to fight to the death) and give a boost in tax collection/confiscate wealth from nobles/clergy, but also have the effect of exiling or killing girondin generals and ministers and have negative diplomatic effects.

[EmperorBatman999]

I think Russia should be playable, their actions in the Italian theater after Napoleon went to Egypt undid everything he did.
I was also thinking about generals, what general should each major faction have?

Russia - Suvorov
Royalist France - LaFyette (?)
Revolutionary France - ?
Britain - ?
Austria - Archduke Charles?
Prussia - ?

[Invictus XII]

Yes, generals is defently something I will need to look into. But I already have some ideas...

[Geronimo2006]

I think Russia should be playable, their actions in the Italian theater after Napoleon went to Egypt undid everything he did.
I was also thinking about generals, what general should each major faction have?

Russia - Suvorov
Royalist France - LaFyette (?)
Revolutionary France - ?
Britain - ?
Austria - Archduke Charles?
Prussia - ?

The Duke of Brunswick would be an obvious Prussian general. The "Brunswick Manifesto" threatening to destroy Paris if harm came to the royal-family made the deposition of the king inevitable.

[ambien]

Lafayette was not a royalist. He was involved in drafting the decl of the rights of man and was the head of the nat'l guard. he was later persecuted by the jacobins and forced to flee france, but he never renounced the ideals of 1789.

Royalist generals included the Prince de Condé (commander of the Royalist emigree army and a prince of the blood), Duc d'Enghien, Duc de Richelieu, Vicomte de Chateaubriand, Duc de Choiseul, Duc de Damas, Comte de Montlosier, and Vicomte de Bonald.



The Prince of Condé

Royalist generals of the Vendee revolt included the Comte de la Rochejaquelein, the Marquis de Bonchamps, Louis d'Elbée, the Marquis de Lescure, Jacques Cathelineau, and Jean-Nicolas Stofflet, among others. Compte de la Rochejaquelein was commander in chief of the Catholic and Royalist Army (having succeeded the gravely wounded d'Elbee) and is famous for his order, "Mes amis, si j'avance, suivez-moi! Si je recule, tuez-moi! Si je meurs, vengez-moi!" ("Friends, if I advance, follow me! If I retreat, kill me! If I die, avenge me!").

[General Cornwallis]

Britian would probably have to be Prince Frederick, Duke of York and Albany, who led the British unsuccesfully in the low countries during the revolutionary wars. He was a terrible commander at the time, but when he was Commander and Chief later in life he wa a great organizer and made consider contributions to the reorganization of the British army.

[ambien]

As for Revolutionary France, Lazare Carnot should be minister of the army.



Carnot

Generals might include Bonaparte, Masséna, Kellerman, Dumoriez (later defected to the Austrians in 1793), Jean-Charles Pichegru, Jean-Baptiste Jourdan, Louis Lazare Hoche, Jean Victor Marie Moreau, Rochambeau (arrested during reign of terror), La Fayette (forced to flee France in 1792, then captured and imprisoned by the Austrians), Nicolas Luckner (cmdr of Army of the Rhine, later guillotined in 1794) and Jan Henryk Dąbrowski (organiser of the Polish Legion in 1796).

[Invictus XII]

Thanks for the help guys, writing all this down... +rep!

[EmperorBatman999]

Britian would probably have to be Prince Frederick, Duke of York and Albany, who led the British unsuccesfully in the low countries during the revolutionary wars. He was a terrible commander at the time, but when he was Commander and Chief later in life he wa a great organizer and made consider contributions to the reorganization of the British army.

Yes, maybe make him a good guy to have to lower upkeep costs but low amount of command stars.

And I thought LaFayette was a Royalists, thanks for clearing that up.
An updated list:
Russia - Suvorov
Royalist France - Conde
Revolutionary France - LaFayette
Britain - Frederick
Austria - Charles
Prussia - Duke of Brunswick
But what about Austria? Was Charles commander then?

Remember that these are only the "main" Generals that can't be killed.

[ambien]

As far as heads of state and ministers, that could be tricky for royalist france. But this is an informative website (I can't vouch for accuracy, but it cites a decent number of books and articles in the bibliography):

http://warandgame.wordpress.com/2010/01/10/emigres/

head of state could be the Comte de Provence (later Louis XVIII):



Louis Stanislaus Xavier de France, Comte de Provence

Foreign Minister could be Comte d'Artois (later Charles X):



Charles Philippe de France, Comte d'Artois

Minister of War, Prince de Condé? He organized the army of aristos, but was also it CiC (not sure if it is wise (for the purposes of this game) to have same person as a field general and Minister of War; I guess he could be one of those generals who never dies, but is only wounded):



Louis Joseph de Bourbon, Prince de Condé

Prime Minister could be Baron de Breteuil:



Louis Auguste le Tonnelier, the Baron de Breteuil

FInance Minister: Charles Alexandre de Calonne



Calonne

Min. of the Navy: Charles Eugène Gabriel de La Croix, marquis de Castries (former min. of navy under Louis XVI; emigrated after fall of bastille and served as secretary to the comte de provence)



Marquis de Castries



Minister of Justice is more problematic. Maybe some clergyman? Maybe baron of breteuil doubles as min. of justice?

[EmperorBatman999]

Well, Napoleon is both leader and general.

[ambien]

Well, Napoleon is both leader and general.

fair enough

[ambien]

Yes, maybe make him a good guy to have to lower upkeep costs but low amount of command stars.

And I thought LaFayette was a Royalists, thanks for clearing that up.
An updated list:
Russia - Suvorov
Royalist France - Conde
Revolutionary France - Carnot or LaFayette
Britain - Frederick
Austria - ?
Prussia - Duke of Brunswick
But what about Austria? Was Charles commander then?

Remember that these are only the "main" Generals that can't be killed.

Archduke Charles is a good choice for Austria. He fought in many of the major engagements and was lieutenant field marshal by 1793. By 1796 he was cmdr of the Austrian forces on the Rhine and had distinguished himelf as Austria's best field general.

For revolutionary France, I suppose it should be Lafayette. The problem with designating anyone as the main general is that generals fell into disrepute rather easily. Lafayette is probably the most famous and was the main man from 1789-92, but was forced into exile for political (and, arguably) military failures. He was confined to an Austrian prison and didn't return to France until 1799. Dumoriez was top general at Valmy, but defected to the Austrians in 1793. Carnot was not a field general, but more of a technocratic minister (he organized the levee en masse). Pichegru was a great general and would be another candidate, but he defected to the Royalists in 1795. Later he organized a failed coup and was sent to Devil's Island.

I guess Kellerman was the most consistent until Bonaparte. Kellerman commanded Army of Alsace, (with Dumoriez) beat the Prussians at Valmy, and commanded the Army of the Alps. The problem is that Kellerman is far overshadowed in fame not only by Bonaparte (which is true of all generals of the wars of the revolution), but also by Lafayette.

[EmperorBatman999]

But remember that anything that occurs after the start date means nothing because the game doesn't perfectly follow history.

[ambien]

But remember that anything that occurs after the start date means nothing because the game doesn't perfectly follow history.

True. I suppose it depends when the game starts. If it's 1789, I'd say lafayette. If it's 1792, dumoriez. Maybe if you research reign of terror, you can change your top general if you so choose.

[Invictus XII]

Royalist and Revolutionary France both start in 1789, I believe, but talk to Thomas Cochrane, as he is the one doing the startpos.

And I'm always looking for more startpos editors, so PM if you can help with the startpos. (And you need to be good at it)

[Geronimo2006]

"Trial and Execution of the King" and "Cult of the Supreme Being" should be Republican technologies.

The Cult of the Supreme Being (French: Culte de l'Être suprême) was a form of deism devised by Maximilien Robespierre[1], intended to become the state religion after the French Revolution.[2]...Robespierre believed that reason is only a means to an end, and the singular end is Virtue. He sought to move beyond simple deism (often described as Voltairean by its adherents) to a new and, in his view, more rational devotion to the godhead. The primary principles of the Cult of the Supreme Being were a belief in the existence of God and in the immortality of the human soul.[7] Such beliefs, he said, were "constant reminders of justice" and thus essential to a republican society.[8] Though not inconsistent with Christian doctrine, these concepts were put to the service of Robespierre's fuller meaning, which was of a type of civic-minded, public virtue he attributed to the Greeks and Romans:[9] this type of Virtue could only come through active fidelity to liberty and democracy.[10]Robespierre used the religious issue to publicly denounce the motives of many radicals not in his camp, and it led, directly or indirectly, to the executions of Revolutionary de-Christianizers like Hébert, Momoro, and Anacharsis Cloots.[11] The establishment of the Cult of the Supreme Being began the reversal of the wholesale de-Christianization process that had been looked upon previously with official favor.[12] At the same time it marked the apogee of Robespierre's power. A relatively shadowy public figure, ostensibly just an equal member of the Committee of Public Safety, Robespierre from now on assumed an air of national prominence bordering on the dictatorial.[13]To inaugurate the new state religion, Robespierre declared that 20 Prairial of Year III (June 8, 1794) would be the first day of national celebration of the Supreme Being, and future republican holidays were to be held on every day of rest (décadi) in the official calendar.[14] Every locality was mandated to hold a commemorative event, but the event in Paris was executed on a massive scale. Designed and organized by Jacques-Louis David, the festival took place on and around an enormous artificial mountain created on the Champ de Mars.[15] Robespierre assumed full leadership of the event, forcefully - and, to some, ostentatiously[16] - declaring the truth and "social utility" of his new religion.[17]

Picture of the artificial-mountain used in the Festival is here.

[ambien]

If start date is 1789, ministers for revolutionary France could be:

Minister of Justice: Honoré Gabriel Riqueti, comte de Mirabeau (the actual minister of justice was Marguerite-Louis-François Duport-Dutertre, but Mirabeau was de factor minister and a much more formidable character. Also, I found a photo of Mirabeau but could not find one of Duport-Dutertre)



Mirabeau

Foreign Minister: Armand Marc, comte de Montmorin



Montmorin

Minister of the Navy and the Colonies: Charles Pierre Claret de Fleurieu



Fleurieu

Minister of the Army: Louis Lebègue Duportail



Duportail

Finance Minister and Prime Minister: Jacques Necker



Necker

I suppose head of state would still be Louis XVI



Louis XVI, from 1786 (looking a little too confident)

maybe this picture is more appropriate:



Have I forgotten anyone?