Suggestions

[Inarus]

Suggestions
Feel free to post your suggestions here...
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[DrNikola2006]

Maybe you could replace the rebel faction with a scripted 'Minor House' faction, that is at war with everyone but is also able to go on the offensive. Or, even better, starts off allied with Baratheon/Lannister, and then changes sides to support the most powerful 'king'. I suppose that would be difficult to do, though. It is hard to say what kind of factions you could add besides a Wildling horde, and a Wildling horde would be a problem only for House Stark, a faction which (in my playthroughs at least) currently struggles under AI leadership.

I guess that a better thing to work on would be increasing the number of provinces in 1.0 before adding more factions, as the factions currently in play do fit the map. If you were going to add a Targaryen faction, it could be an emergent faction that pops up when the number of 'kings' hits critical mass, as the population grows tired of being torn in a dozen different directions and self-proclaimed agents of the one true heir (Yay Daenerys) stir up a revolt in her name. Hardly in the spirit of the scenario currently at play in the books themselves, but within the bounds of possibility at the beginning of the scenario in the game.

[Orko]

If vassals can be improved: The regular factions+Bolton and Frey, and maybe hightower or redwyne.

[McCoy!]

If vassals can be improved: The regular factions+Bolton and Frey, and maybe hightower or redwyne.

Agreed!!! And perhaps this LINK will help in resolving the vassal problem. It is NOT a mod for kingdoms but perhaps the code could still be used.

Also check out this LINK
If you look past the fact that it is a cheat thread you will see that when using this diplomacy mod vassals will remain loyal if relations are good.

Just throwing that code out there because it was the only thing i could find that seemed to have any impact on vassal relations...hopefully it proves useful in someway

[JonDarkstar]

Don't now about new factions but please make House Arryn less offensive. They attack everyone.

Maybe a random spawning Brotherhood without banner army or something.

[Darkstar]

Don't now about new factions but please make House Arryn less offensive. They attack everyone.

Maybe a random spawning Brotherhood without banner army or something.

The AI is going to be completely reworked for v1.0.

[Tywin Lannister]

The changes I would like to see in current factions:

House of Joffrey: renamed into The King on the Iron Throne.

House of Stannis: renamed into The King on Dragonstone.

House of Renly: renamed into The King in Storm’s End.

The new factions I would like to see:

House Frey: definitely deserve to be a faction in its own right, whether vassals can be made to work properly or no. Freys are a very powerful House in their own right, powerful enough to force Great Houses to treat with them as an equals, however reluctantly.

House Bolton: but only if Roose’s behavior can be scripted for specific actions: staying in the south and fighting Robb’s enemies at least at first. It would make sense for Ramsey to try to grab more land in the North, but it would make no sense for Roose to gallop back to the North, making himself as a traitor, he is more subtle then that, and he *did* serve Robb loyally until Robb messed up.

House Florent: another very powerful House that should, in my opinion, be made into a separate faction by the same virtue as Freys and Boltons. Not only they deserve it by the virtue of their power and influence, but it will also open them a road to switch their allegiance from King Renly and Tyrells to King Stannis (or whoever else they may choose to support), which would be consistent with their behavior in the books.

And last, but not least…

The King Beyond the Wall: I would like at some point in the campaign to be announced that Tormund Giantsbane blew the Horn of Joramun, breaching the Wall, and that Mance Rayder crushed the Night’s Watch and marching South with all his strength, including Mamonths and Giants. He would make an excellent horde faction, I believe. To counter him to some degree, I believe it would also be a good idea to have Jon Snow spawn near Winterfall under the Starks’ control, with a stack made of the remnants of the Night’s Watch with him. This will not be consistent with the books, of course, but in my opinion it will make an excellent gaming experience and provide an excellent challenge as well.

[raducul32167]

I would say , don't bother with any new factions but try to make the current ones as fleshed out as possible.That I think should be the nr 1 priority .
Besides you could not play them.The Targs have dragons witch could not be replicated, the wildlings are basically a horde and the night's watch are just a few guys living in a castle, the could not recruit troops except what the other houses gave them.As for the vasals there is no script that I know of that could implement them in a satisfactory manner.
What is important is to have the current factions well fleshed out and interesting, perhaps accentuate the differences between them.

[stormbringer951]

The Houses will be renamed to House Baratheon of X apart from Joffery who is King on the Iron Throne.

House Frey will probably be included, but House Florent and Bolton will probably not be. House Bolton was only rebel because Robb was very, very stupid in managing Roose and House Florent will have key members in Stannis's camp (Axell, Alester)

The King Beyond the Wall will not be included in v1.0 properly afaik, although we may add Targaryen and Wilding emergent factions. Your suggestions about Jon Snow will be taken into account...

[TheMastermind]

(i didnt see any other suggestion topic so i'll throw here everything i have)

I think that having the brotherhood to the north trying to defend from the wilding can be very nice. They can have relations like the pope that will be reflected by the support they get from each faction.
maybe a "Sand to wall" button in the prisinor screen can be added. afrcourse there should be some reward apart the not being raped by wildings.

there can be random/not random anvasions from varios factions: the wildings, the dotharkes, and Targaryen.

i think that there should be a banner system that will allow the bigger houses to take over the small houses in a nice political and revertable way.

also i think that everyone should be able to claim kingship. to not restrict to much to the original story and having more cahos and fun.

[Darkstar]

House Bolton: but only if Roose’s behavior can be scripted for specific actions: staying in the south and fighting Robb’s enemies at least at first. It would make sense for Ramsey to try to grab more land in the North, but it would make no sense for Roose to gallop back to the North, making himself as a traitor, he is more subtle then that, and he *did* serve Robb loyally until Robb messed up.

I have some ideas on how to accomplish this but there's been a lot of disagreement on whether or not the Bolton's were important enough to include as a faction.

[Tywin Lannister]

I have some ideas on how to accomplish this but there's been a lot of disagreement on whether or not the Bolton's were important enough to include as a faction.

Well, I am of the mind that if Roose can be scripted to support Robb on his campaign in the North, the Boltons of Dreadfort are certainly interesting and powerful enough to warrant being a separate faction.

Overall, I believe that adding more minor factions, such as Freys, Boltons, Florents and perhaps even House Hightower, who aside from being a powerful house in its own right, have a detailed family tree that is sadly lost in the game. In my opinion, if a House warrants its own section in Appendix, then it is important enough to warrant being a faction in its own right (pehaps not in the v. 1.0, but eventually).

In my opinion, having more minor factions will only increase player's options, therefore only enhancing the gameplay. (And players who don't like having Brightwater Keep and Florents as their vassals/allies, can always crush their faction as easily as if it was a rebel province.)

[Darkstar]

Well, I am of the mind that if Roose can be scripted to support Robb on his campaign in the North, the Boltons of Dreadfort are certainly interesting and powerful enough to warrant being a separate faction.

Overall, I believe that adding more minor factions, such as Freys, Boltons, Florents and perhaps even House Hightower, who aside from being a powerful house in its own right, have a detailed family tree that is sadly lost in the game. In my opinion, if a House warrants its own section in Appendix, then it is important enough to warrant being a faction in its own right (pehaps not in the v. 1.0, but eventually).

In my opinion, having more minor factions will only increase player's options, therefore only enhancing the gameplay. (And players who don't like having Brightwater Keep and Florents as their vassals/allies, can always crush their faction as easily as if it was a rebel province.)

There are a couple different options to script the Boltons. Not sure which way is best yet, but it can definitely be done. I also like the idea of adding some minor factions but not sure how far we should go with it. Factions like Hightower, Redwyne, etc are very powerful on their own but both have tight ties to House Tyrell. With the limited options for scripting alliances and vassals I don't think adding minor houses that are very loyal works.

[McCoy!]

there's been a lot of disagreement on whether or not the Bolton's were important enough to include as a faction.

After studying the campaign AI script I personally think Bolton should be in for sure. Campaign map strategy is based on religion (factions that have the same religion have EXACTLY the same campaign strategy based on their current situation)...which sucks I think for the vanilla game but should work out nice for this mod since there are so many religions (which means most factions can be scripted to act differently). Anyways I think Bolton and Frey should be classified as Atheists and should be programed to be oppertunists and cowards...meaning they will seize advantage when strong but will backdown if another faction is more powerful. Also Faction relations and global standing should not influence their decisions they will ally or bend knee to those they hate to further their own goals. Obviously there is a lot more that can be tuned to make them react as they would in the book but I think those are key cores.

It is also very possible to have loyal vassels...MTWII Campaign AI is NOT programed realistically. With a little tweaking hopefully minor houses can be included in future releases. There are codes that do NOT allow vassels to betray you. I also found a more realistic code that allows vassals to betray you if your relations with the faction drops below a certain point.

Anyways again definitely add bolton to 1.0...the only reason not to is because it would be EASIER not to...not a very good reason I think

[Tywin Lannister]

There are a couple different options to script the Boltons. Not sure which way is best yet, but it can definitely be done. I also like the idea of adding some minor factions but not sure how far we should go with it. Factions like Hightower, Redwyne, etc are very powerful on their own but both have tight ties to House Tyrell. With the limited options for scripting alliances and vassals I don't think adding minor houses that are very loyal works.

Redwynes already fit very well into the Tyrells' family tree, and I don't see much point in making them a separated faction.

Florents are an entirely different matter: they have a large family of their own, ties not only to Tyrells, but also to Stannis, opening them a good road for easily switching sides if it seems beneficial; and in fact, if Florents saw weakness, I imagine they would happily seize Highgarden itself, to which they say they have superior claim. They definitely warrant a faction of their own, in my opinion, and since as of latest release they are actually non-existent, with rebel Brightwater Keep standing ungarrisoned, making Florents into a faction will only add to the gameplay, not take from it (and as I pointed out, Tyrell players who wouldn't like having to maintain alliance/protectorship with Florents can easily wipe them out).

House Hightower is less prominent then Florents (at least, as of first 4 books, I expect that they will take far more important role in the coming books, otherwise there wouldn't be a need for such a large and detailed Hightower family tree), but I still believe that making them into a separate faction will only add to gameplay. As of right now, House Hightower is represented only by an aged Lord Leyton, who dies of old age quite soon, ending Hightower family. Having a separated playable faction in Hightowers will be more interesting then that, in my opinion, and again, Highgarden players who wouldn't like that could easily crush Hightower faction, while to everyone else it will only open more gameplay possibilities. And finally, while House Hightower seems loyal to Tyrells (especially as they have everything to gain and nothing to lose from this loyalty), it is not yet certain what they may do in the later books (in which, like I said, I have a feeling they will be playing a bigger role, otherwise there would be no need to detail them so much), especially with rumors about Hightowers dubing in alchemy and sorcery.

[stormbringer951]

Minor houses are less important; we don't want s of tiny factions. Also, House Hightower is much above House Florent as they control Oldtown, one of the biiig cities.

[Tywin Lannister]

Minor houses are less important; we don't want s of tiny factions.

Why not, exaclty? More factions, including "tiny" ones open more possibilities for diplomatic relations and overall add more variety to the camgain, providing better re-playability.

And why "tiny"? Boltons, Freys, Florents, Hightowers - they would all start out with more resources then Stannis, and with exception of Boltons, larger family trees then the "big" factions, making it quite possible the they will outlive their "big" neighbors/lords and rise to power in their stead.

And finally, these "tiny" factions shouldn't be seen just as "extra" AI factions, but also as a viable factions for players to play, for those who would me more interesting in playing a lesser faction rather then one of "big 10", or for those who would want a different experience after completing the campaign for one or more big faction.

The way I see it, having Boltons, Freys, Florents and Hightowers as separated playable factions will only add to gaming proccess, not take from it.

[penguinking]

The changes I would like to see in current factions:

House of Stannis: renamed into The King on Dragonstone.

House of Renly: renamed into The King in Storm’s End.

Actually those names won't work well, because you don't actually have to claim for kingship with either of those factions. As had been suggested before, "House Baratheon of the Stormlands" and "House Baratheon of the Dragonstone" would work better.

[Tywin Lannister]

I must say, that I found the way Lannister family was implemented rather disappointing and making no sense book-wise. Somewhat hard to summarize all of it, so I will begin with several points:

Q: Why is Jaime not the heir of Tywin?

A: In AFFC we learn that Jaime is not interested in ruling Casterly Rock. Cersei succeeds Tywin and becomes the Lady of Casterly Rock. However in M2TW female faction heirs are not possible so that rules her out. She is in Joffrey's family tree anyway. Eventually we opted for Kevan as faction heir. He's suitable.

Jaime wasn’t disinherited because he “wasn’t interested in ruling Casterly Rock”, but because he was the knight of Kingsguard, and Kingsguard don’t inherit, they serve protecting their king for life (Lord Tywin expected to find a way around this, but Jaime refused, preferring to stay Lord Commander of the Kingsguard then to become Lord of Casterly Rock).

However, as things stand in the mod, Jaime is in Lannister faction, not Joffrey’s, which, for all intents and purposes, means that he is serving his father, not his king. With thing standing like this, it is strange to see Jaime disinherited (and Tywin wants him to inherit Casterly Rock to the point where he is willing to go against traditions to achieve that) just because “he isn’t interesting in that”. (And as a matter of fact, if Jaime wasn’t Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, I imagine he would be very much “interested” in being Lord of Casterly Rock.)

Q: What about Tyrion?

A: Tyrion is a general in the Joffrey faction.

I overall disagree with Tyrion’s being in Joffrey’s faction, overall.

I understand that the basis for that is that he temporary served as Joffrey’s hand in Tywin’s stead and commanded the defense of King’s Landing, but despite that, he is technically in Lannisters’ faction, and has nothing that binds him to direct service to the Iron Throne (unlike Jaime, who is in Lannisters’ faction in this mod). And note: before Tyrion went to King’s Landing to act as Joffrey’s hand, he fought with the Lannister army on the battle at the Green Fork.

Remember, there are not “strict” factions in reality, so there is no reason why the general from one “faction” can’t lead the soldiers from another, like Jaime from Joffrey’s “faction” leading Lannister men during the campaign against Riverrun, or Tyrion from Lannisters’ “faction” commanding the defense of King’s Landing.

But one thing stands that Tyrion can’t possibly be an heir to Casterly Rock, as Tywin showed very clear intent to disinherit him, so if Tyrion is switched to Lannister faction (where, I believe, he belongs), he probably should have “Disinherited” trait which would prevent him from potentially becoming an heir to Casterly Rock in the case of Kevan’s untimely death.

With that said, I believe that situation between House Lannister and Joffrey should be changed to one of the following:

1.

Jaime is a general in Joffrey’s faction, but still begins standing ready to lead the attack on Riverrun.
Tyrion is in Lannister faction, but Kevan is still the heir to Casterly Rock.

2.

The generals remain as they were: Jaime in Lannister faction, Tyrion in Joffrey’s faction.
BUT
Jaime is listed as Tywin’s son in the family tree, not merely a general, and begins as the heir to Casterly Rock.

[Tywin Lannister]

Another thought I recently hard in regard of Jaime...

Can it be scripted that Jaime begins as a general in Joffrey's faction (being Lord Commander of the Kingsguard), but if player plays for either Joffrey or House Lannister, he is presnted an option in the beggining of the game to dismiss Jaime from the Kingguard, making him Lannister family member and Tywin's heir? If it could be scripted, it would be an ideal solution for Jaime's situation, I believe.

(And as about Tyrion, I believe that he fits better with Lannister faction, though considering that Tywin all but disowned him, he isn't out of place in Joffrey's faction either.)